Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
Guest

1 in 10 owns second home

Recommended Posts

On 8/19/2017 at 8:33 AM, Venger said:

You're bringing house size into it? 

Firstly I don't want to buy a home in the USA.   They have more land.

Some parts of USA very expensive (SoCal / San Fran / New York) even for small home.

People owning second homes / multiple homes / BTLs in the UK is a major issue, when you're a priced out renter-saver, and small home in your area is £300K+, and inventory on market scraping lows.

Owning a second home in the UK, is very different to owning a cheaper larger home in the USA.... you make it sound like it's all okay to own multiple homes in UK because of UK houses tend to be smaller.   

For a start it's two sets of council tax/two different locations (someone's rent as renter if it's rented out).  

And its all part of the UK housing financialisation problem.

No I'm not saying that - nothing like anything you're surmising.  You're twisting things again and making a big deal out of a passing remark about the relative sizes of US homes compared to UK homes.

Edited by billybong

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, billybong said:

No I'm not saying that - nothing like anything you're surmising.  You're twisting things again and making a big deal out of a passing remark about the relative sizes of US homes compared to UK homes.

Simply pointing out that owning 2 homes in the UK, with the house prices in many parts of the UK (affordability crunch and supply constraints and BTL/2nd home takers vs Generation Rent position), is very very different to owning one single larger home in the USA.   

As was your initial post about the matter.

On 19/08/2017 at 1:27 AM, billybong said:

Even so owning a second home in the UK is still only owning about one third of a home in the US.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Venger said:

Simply pointing out that owning 2 homes in the UK, with the house prices in many parts of the UK (affordability crunch and supply constraints and BTL/2nd home takers vs Generation Rent position), is very very different to owning one single larger home in the USA.   

As was your initial post about the matter.

 

My initial post was no such thing - don't try to attribute hidden meanings in my post that aren't there.  I'm sure I don't have to remind you that you've tried to do that in the past.

 

Edited by billybong

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, billybong said:

No I'm not saying that - nothing like anything you're surmising.  You're twisting things again and making a big deal out of a passing remark about the relative sizes of US homes compared to UK homes.

 

1 minute ago, billybong said:

My initial post was no such thing - don't try to pretend there's hidden meanings in my post that aren't there. I'm sure I don't have to remind you that you've tried to do that before.


1 in 10 owns second home

By wotsthat, Friday at 10:47 PM in House prices and the economy

First reply to the OP. = your post

On 19/08/2017 at 1:27 AM, billybong said:

Even so owning a second home in the UK is still only owning about one third of a home in the US.

It's fair for me to point out that it's weak reasoning.  The suggestion that 2nd home owning in the UK is nothing much vs 1 home in the US... in the UK's housing financialisation/prices/BTL /2nd home/bubble-prices (in many areas) and priced out Generation Rent.  1 in 5 homes a BTL (thereabouts).  1 in 10 owning a second home.   (I have other data too about over 65s and their ownership of multiple property).

You really want to talk about twisting of positions, and accuse me of reading into hidden meanings!?  I dropped that out of peacemaking, but you raise it again, from the suggestion I've twisted your position on this thread.

So let's just get this one straight... let's unravel it from your side shall we.  Check my post again.  "You're bringing house size into it?" and "you make it sound like it's all okay to own multiple homes in UK because of UK houses tend to be smaller. "

Now you had the opportunity to calmly reply and outline your real meaning in response, but you have refused to do so.   

You haven't explained what you meant in your initial reply (post 2 on this thread).

You've overreacted.  Sensitive.  Instead you've accused me of 'twisting' your position.  I am still no closer to understanding what you mean in your initial reply, and am still holding to the view I initially offered to how your post didn't add up to me (UK multiple house owning vs 1 house in USA).  It's for you to explain it if you choose to, but you haven't so far.

Reading between the lines is part of how to read a forum. Suggesting that something is not there because it involves reading between the lines is plain daft, (and if you can't see that it speaks to a rather underwhelming intellect at work, IMO).   You ought consider that just because you can't read subtext, it doesn't follow that you don't unwittingly author it.  

So I asked a question and set out my reading of how your reply read to me.  "Even so owning a second home in the UK is still only owning about one third of a home in the US."   .......  It's up to you to explain what you meant... no need to get all sensitive and go accusing me of twisting things and seeing hidden meanings.  Explain it if you have an explanation.  Seems like a weak association to me (UK multiple homes vs larger home in USA).  If I've got it wrong, then explain it to me.

 "You're bringing house size into it?" and "you make it sound like it's all okay to own multiple homes in UK because of UK houses tend to be smaller. "

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you don't know my consistent stance on UK house prices (crazy) and UK house sizes (tiny) by now and after my many posts and a number of exchanges with yourself on the subject then I doubt you ever will.

Your ad hominems speak volumes.

Edited by billybong

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, billybong said:

If you don't know my consistent stance on UK house prices (crazy) and UK house sizes (tiny) by now and after my many posts and a number of exchanges with yourself on the subject then I doubt you ever will.

 

Well clearly I don't... for I asked a question on this thread, to what you meant by your reply about multiple homeownership being only like owning 1/3rd of a single house in the USA.   And I outlined how it read (and still reads) to me.

You could have explained it.  (Still don't know if you have any point to make, beyond what I observed and asked).

I still don't see how there is any logic in comparing multiple house ownership in the UK, to just being the equivalent one one home in the USA.  (Still hold that's how your initial reply read to me... and I calmly asked if that was your meaning.)

It's the 2nd homeowners in UK that are contributing (in part) to prices being as high as they are, in BTLer double down, and property-is-everything ("investment asset" over a "home") chosen mind-state of so many people.   It's not something to be glibly compared to mansions in the USA.. where load more space for such houses.  (And where many look ridiculous anyway).

Also I don't even want a gaudy mansion that some people slobber over.   All those threads where people post up a Chateaux in France vs a terrace in South Manchester/Cambridge.... I want the terrace.  

Go live in rural France if you want to in ghostly old Chateaux in France, or some McMansion in the USA.   It's different in the UK.  Different country, different culture...different landscape (and inappropriate to build in some areas).   I certainly am sick of muscular footballer mansions... all the newbuilds 2002-2007.... and then incredibly again from 2010-2017 (£1m+) on landplots where someone could build 4-6 run of nice terrace / Semi-D family homes. 

This is the UK.

And all the crappy newbuilds of recent times.. small and super expensive.  People have chosen to buy them (including landlords...).  HPC.  No buyers and they wouldn't be built.  Shoddy building is often sign of a bubble/boom/excess.  What the customer will accept.

Quote

 

Edward VII reigned from 1901 to 1910, but the Edwardian period is generally extended to the outbreak of the First World War in 1914.

Edward’s reign was short but influential.

The atmosphere of the period was influenced by the king and his love of the good life, which contrasted sharply with the puritanical values of the Victorian ideal.


This short era saw a huge housing boom as suburbs sprung up around every city and large town.

The new middle classes wanted affordable, manageable-sized homes within commuting distance of their work, and they flocked to the outskirts.

But the suburbs did not ape the architecture of Victorian town centres. The new housing was modeled more on traditional country building, using local materials and skills, and simple designs.

With a variety of designs on homes that ranged from small terraces to semis and large detached villas, the Edwardian suburbs were planned to suggest a naturally evolved village.
.....

 

UK.  This is the UK.  Multiple homeownership is worsening the situation for Generation Rent Forever priced out in housing financialisation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, billybong said:

I explained it to you.

Great explanation. :blink:

I'm out of this one.  Haven't read any explanation, just sensitive overreaction to my trying to get an explanation from you.

1 in 10 owns second home
By wotsthat, Friday at 10:47 PM in House prices and the economy 

On 19/08/2017 at 1:27 AM, billybong said:

Even so owning a second home in the UK is still only owning about one third of a home in the US.

!

On 19/08/2017 at 8:33 AM, Venger said:

You're bringing house size into it

Firstly I don't want to buy a home in the USA.   They have more land.

Some parts of USA very expensive (SoCal / San Fran / New York) even for small home.

People owning second homes / multiple homes / BTLs in the UK is a major issue, when you're a priced out renter-saver, and small home in your area is £300K+, and inventory on market scraping lows.

Owning a second home in the UK, is very different to owning a cheaper larger home in the USA.... you make it sound like it's all okay to own multiple homes in UK because of UK houses tend to be smaller.   

For a start it's two sets of council tax/two different locations (someone's rent as renter if it's rented out).  

And its all part of the UK housing financialisation problem.

What's so hostile about that?  I asked a question.  I then explained how your post read to me.  Comparing multiple homeownership in the UK (1 in 10 people owning two different homes in the UK -vs- Rent Forever Priced Outs like many of my family/friends)

3 hours ago, billybong said:

No I'm not saying that - nothing like anything you're surmising.  You're twisting things again and making a big deal out of a passing remark about the relative sizes of US homes compared to UK homes.

Read like it.  You could have explained your meaning, to my question.  Instead of hostile response.

1 hour ago, Venger said:

Simply pointing out that owning 2 homes in the UK, with the house prices in many parts of the UK (affordability crunch and supply constraints and BTL/2nd home takers vs Generation Rent position), is very very different to owning one single larger home in the USA.   

As was your initial post about the matter.

Quote

billybong: Even so owning a second home in the UK is still only owning about one third of a home in the US.

 

 

1 hour ago, billybong said:

My initial post was no such thing - don't try to attribute hidden meanings in my post that aren't there.  I'm sure I don't have to remind you that you've tried to do that in the past.

Asked a question... read it, and explained to you how it read to me.  Asked if that was your meaning.  No explanation was forthcoming.   Just accusations against me 'twisting' and reading 'hidden meanings that aren't there.'  You could have explained and I still hold your position is weak in glibly comparing multiple homeownership by 1 person in UK, to someone owning a larger single house in the USA.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, billybong said:

If you don't know my consistent stance on UK house prices (crazy) and UK house sizes (tiny) by now and after my many posts and a number of exchanges with yourself on the subject then I doubt you ever will.

Your ad hominems speak volumes.

Read the edited part...  

The point about reading between the lines/ being able/unable to read subtext (which I shamelessly reused from someone else from an older post)...  it's valid.. reading between the lines is part of how to read a forum.

Actually there's wasn't much to read between the lines...

1 in 10 owns second home

On 19/08/2017 at 1:27 AM, billybong said:

Even so owning a second home in the UK is still only owning about one third of a home in the US.

Well when you react the way you reacted, accusing me of reading your post wrong (but still no explanation behind the association/'logic' of why multiple UK homeowners is like owning 1 single home in USA)

You can dish it out.  Except no explanation.  Just trying to drown out my question - refused to answer it - and misdirect away from your own weak associating; those who own multiple homes in UK to being like 1/3rd of a single home in US.  A fair question to you, and my telling you how it read to me.  No explanation.  Just accusations. 

4 hours ago, billybong said:

No I'm not saying that - nothing like anything you're surmising.  You're twisting things again and making a big deal out of a passing remark about the relative sizes of US homes compared to UK homes.

 

1 hour ago, billybong said:

My initial post was no such thing - don't try to attribute hidden meanings in my post that aren't there.  I'm sure I don't have to remind you that you've tried to do that in the past.

And that 'past' where I was referring to a 118 or PT BTLer, and you got hyper-sensitive by mistakenly thinking I was referring to you as a BTL landlord?  :rolleyes:

Those past clashes that you clearly hold to your heart.  I moved on.. and only ever saw them as a robust exchange of views between minds to try and establish reality of matters, with nothing personal in it.  It was that to the point where your logic/position weakened.  Nice get out of that by the way.  Seize upon a post where I was clearly referring to a BTL landlord from a different forum, and escalate it with threat to report me to Mods for you chose to read it as you as the BTL landlord.   Which would have been a nonsense.... as I told you at the time... "Have I ever once in all these years of us both being on forum ever given you the slightest hint of thinking you a BTL landlord...?"  It certainly disrupted the central points of discussion we were having at the time, where I felt your position was just as weak as it is here. 

Quote

billybong: Even so owning a second home in the UK is still only owning about one third of a home in the US.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Arpeggio said:

There is also the fact that the level of HPI around here means that, 3 years later, I wouldn't be able to afford my house now.

 

I wonder what your employer would do in such a situation when looking to hire? Increase wages so they are paying more than average for the same skills, look out of town and supplement travel costs, employ someone to work over internet (if possible), or just move elsewhere?

The answer, as far as I can tell, is none of the above. Just expect people to suck it up seems to be most employers attitudes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, spyguy said:

S Yorks and North.

Nothing wrong with forest and scrub. Bring back wolves.

Wouldn't call anything from S Yorks upwards remote or empty or anything like that until you pass Newcastle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

Wouldn't call anything from S Yorks upwards remote or empty or anything like that until you pass Newcastle.

Most of wolds.

Pennines, teesdale, n york moors, ryedale.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Most of wolds.

Pennines, teesdale, n york moors, ryedale.

No, they're not particularly remote or empty. They're not overcrowded (tourist hotspots aside) like a lot of England, but not noticably empty or remote feeling. I never feel I'm all that far from quite a lot of people in any of those places. Teesdale / North Pennines, just starting to get a few hints of it perhaps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Venger said:

...

 

 

19 hours ago, Venger said:

...

...

 

Quote

billybong: Even so owning a second home in the UK is still only owning about one third of a home in the US.

 

 

That bit is still roughly accurate though.

gallery-1440617303-love-abode-infographic-house-sizes-around-the-world-1.jpg?resize=480:*

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

On 19/08/2017 at 1:27 AM, billybong said:

Even so owning a second home in the UK is still only owning about one third of a home in the US.

I don't get the comparison with other countries on house size, and the association that owning 2 homes in UK is something less than owning 1 homes in the US.

It's a big deal to own 2 houses in UK, when others are so priced out/Gen Rent Forever.  

Multiple home ownership in the UK is not like owning a single larger house in a foreign country at all.

(Video below, from news of earlier this month... Fake ! - most likely... but sure.. big olde USA McMansion in large grounds)....  sure you can buy a large house with rolling grounds in some parts of US for what a small house costs in South Manchester (that I'm totally priced out of, in housing financialisation, two-home/BTL positioning of others).  

I want to live in the UK.  I'm not a US citizen.   Wouldn't be positioned to really earn a living, nor able to settle in Ohio or wherever could buy a larger house (yet still most likely at some cost when I can't afford a semi-detached house here.. and seen house after house fall to the BTLers).   Away from everything I enjoy in UK and other family and friends?

US large houses... it's an irrelevance to me, vs those who own multiple homes in the UK.  Such as my own landlord who bought 4-5 homes since 1999, and also has a large house of his own.  All the rentals are decent sized houses too.  Worth £300K-£400K+.  Family homes.  Just owned by an older BTL landlord.   Sure; add them all together and you could have the happy big house that perhaps you think you deserve?   What isn't an irrelevance to me is those in UK who own 2 homes.  Who BTL.  Who treat houses as investment assets.  Who position to bid up house prices/chase HPI/farm younger people's incomes/quest for more HPI.

I would be happy with just a small UK home... that's what I pushed back against the association/suggestive post that owning 2 homes in UK is not really a big deal vs owning a larger home in US.   It's a really big deal, all these multiple UK homeowners/BTLers/investors... vs Generation Rent Forever painfully expensive housing. 

 

 

22 hours ago, Venger said:

...It's fair for me to point out that it's weak reasoning.  The suggestion that 2nd home owning in the UK is nothing much vs 1 home in the US... in the UK's housing financialisation/prices/BTL /2nd home/bubble-prices (in many areas) and priced out Generation Rent.  1 in 5 homes a BTL (thereabouts).  1 in 10 owning a second home.   (I have other data too about over 65s and their ownership of multiple property).


 

Quote

OAP property boom: One in 12 over-60s owns second home as 'grey savers' buy-to-let 
'Grey pound' has helped push up the number of loans for rental properties
The number has soared by 58 per cent in less than two years
Over-60s own a quarter of the nation’s £4.01trillion property wealth

PUBLISHED: 01:06, 12 September 2014 | UPDATED: 10:54, 12 September 2014

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2752871/OAP-property-boom-One-12-60s-second-home-grey-savers-buy-let.html

 

 

On 28/05/2014 at 5:06 PM, Timak said:

There are different types of BTL investors.

My parents-in-law would never have bought a BTL flat (indeed they were massively against it) however they had several hundred k sitting in a bank account earning 1%.

If they'd shopped around they'd be getting 2% at best in a savings account (maybe slightly more)

If they'd bought shares they might have gone up, maybe down and with dividends they'd be making maybe 4%. However in living memory the stock market has lost and recovered 50% of its value.

With the flat they bought they get a yield of about 4% (after costs and contingency), price might go up or down (up about £50k so far) in the long term.

Put it this way if they could get 4-5% in a savings account - like was common up to 2008 - there is no way they'd own a BTL flat. But as they want an income in retirement BTL is a sensible way of getting a BTL income.

Now levereged BTL for flats in Bulgaria is another matter...

:rolleyes:  

So they had to buy another home to take out opportunity for homeownership from someone else.... frequently the young who haven't had been part of HPI++++ longwave on homes/performing/QE generosity to lock in values......  looking for more mad-gainz.  Not satisfied with homeownership for themselves, and several hundred K in bank... another home to buy and rent out.

Homes as investments, as I posted above, for the HPI/housing financialisation minds.  (HPC)   Their choice btw... not to be blamed on 'advertising'.  Freewill adult choice.  There are no rehearsals in life / adult life.  Our actions matter.  And ever risky/greedy/selfish actions (including those with HPI++ spreadsheets) shouldn't be bailed out by those with less/nothing in the name of 'they might not have known what they were doing' & 'advertising' (the HPI chasers/BTLers).   Still we have all that, even for buyers of 8+ years ago.... 'advertising probably made them buy' /BTL (!)

House size.  Pretty sure there was once a plan to build mega big Prime Ministerial/Whitehall building to give 'proper' show-off credentials to the world, but that ego-phase passed.  Although Downing Street sure cost a lot over the years, seemingly because of poor original build/planning.

Quote

 

In order to maximise profit, the houses were cheaply built, with poor foundations for the boggy ground. Instead of neat brick façades, they had mortar lines drawn on to give the appearance of evenly spaced bricks. In the 20th Century, Prime Minister Winston Churchill wrote that Number 10 was:

Shaky and lightly built by the profiteering contractor whose name they bear.

 

Although we do have plenty of large UK houses too.  McMansions been built in my area since 2000s (and plenty of other large houses in previous decades).  Priced out of just a moderately sized Semi-D.   And in some areas you can buy big house in large grounds in UK for far less than a Cambridge terrace.  Newcastle.... / North East.  If you want to buy up there.  You can't have it both ways and not like fact it's not near London or wherever you truly want to live, and expect big homes at affordable for all prices.

House size in other countries (cost per square foot) vs housing financialisation/multiple homeowners/BTLers in the UK, are two entirely separate issues.  I pushed back against conflating it as an association that isn't valid.

Quote

 

LuckyOne (re UK)  Many of us think that the entire market pricing structure is driven by the high priced segment, as all other properties are priced based on compromises versus the ideal (location, size, commuting etc). When the top end crumbles, everything else will follow.

My expectation is that this market segment will behave in the same fashion as any other market which has topped out. Supply will increase, volume will decrease for quite a while before prices begin to crumble.

 

There are small houses worth fortunes in SoCal as well.  San Francisco.   For a reason as employment / tourist-leisure hubs.   Where such buyers have to settle for less space at very expensive prices (that they've chosen to pay / not sell into / buy 2nd homes).  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Venger said:

There are small houses worth fortunes in SoCal as well.  San Francisco.   For a reason as employment / tourist-leisure hubs.   Where such buyers have to settle for less space at very expensive prices (that they've chosen to pay / not sell into / buy 2nd homes).  

And for their housing bubble too, IMO, and according to a USA HPC style forum I follow... fully of priced out younger renter-savers.

You then have different property-taxes in the US.... vs UK council tax.

Quote

 

San Francisco earthquake shack sells for $408,000
Published: Oct 22, 2015 

MW-DV334_sf_sha_20150929123709_MG.jpg?uuid=546ad0a0-66c8-11e5-829e-0015c588e0f6

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/san-francisco-shack-starting-at-350000-2015-09-29

 


 

Quote

 

Menlo Park 'Shack' Sells for $2.6 Million, 57 Percent Over Asking
Perhaps some Silicon Valley towns need to step up their housing game — fast
APR 21, 2016

56ab3e98e4b041df1699ada7.0.jpg

https://sf.curbed.com/2016/4/21/11482778/menlo-park-home-over-asking-millions

 

 

It's more or less the same everywhere...

Quote

LuckyOne..... all other properties are priced based on compromises versus the ideal (location, size, commuting etc).

Yet multiple home ownership in UK (and BTLers have been highly active in areas or employment/where young people want to live/commute) is nothing like owning a large house in Ohio or rundown big house in rural France.

And there are buyers out there for all the shoddy small builds in UK of recent times.  Hopefully they won't be in position to outbid me for a 1950s Semi-D into a HPC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Venger said:

:rolleyes:  

So they had to buy another home to take out opportunity for homeownership from someone else.... frequently the young who haven't had been part of HPI++++ longwave on homes/performing/QE generosity to lock in values......  looking for more mad-gainz.  Not satisfied with homeownership for themselves, and several hundred K in bank... another home to buy and rent out.

Homes as investments, as I posted above, for the HPI/housing financialisation minds.  (HPC)   Their choice btw... not to be blamed on 'advertising'.  Freewill adult choice.  There are no rehearsals in life / adult life.  Our actions matter.  And ever risky/greedy/selfish actions (including those with HPI++ spreadsheets) shouldn't be bailed out by those with less/nothing in the name of 'they might not have known what they were doing' & 'advertising' (the HPI chasers/BTLers).   Still we have all that, even for buyers of 8+ years ago.... 'advertising probably made them buy' /BTL (!)

 "Need more' on several hundred thousand in savings in the bank... looking for better returns, and choosing to buy a BTL to rent out... happy homeowners themselves too.

Also happy with their £50K+ HPI+++ gainz since then.

Yet too many on HPC been calling those who bought/BTL'd since 2000 'the victims of advertising'.

Simply because I was reading Wikipedia earlier tonight...

Quote

We took risks, we knew we took them; things have come out against us, and therefore we have no cause for complaint

It's a market out there, and I reject the view that those buying houses are victims of advertising.   Adults making their own market choices.

As I have made my choices (that have gone against me but still have hope of future correction) to continue renting vs the HPI+++ spreadsheeters and the BTLers.. in all the QE/Zirp.   We can't have a housing market where there is no downside to paying too much.  Can't have a housing market where BTLers/HPIers are given 'the out' that they may have been influenced by advertising.  No rehearsals at life, and a lot of history to give lessons about risk.  In some people's view, HPIers and those choosing to lease £40K cars.... (and even HPIers with Mad-Gainz)... the renter-savers should always be on standby to bail them out... "because they may have been influenced by advertising".

Adult market choices.  No one dragged anyone to buy tiny small home in Cambridge at £700,000... nor forced Timak's relatives to buy another home to rent out, so they can chase HPI+ and seek better returns vs what had been fortunes of cash to live on in the bank (and no house worries of their own as owners). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Venger said:

It's a market out there, and I reject the view that those buying houses are victims of advertising.   Adults making their own market choices.

I keep saying it, usually in a sneering tone, but unfortunately that time has passed. Self-responsibility as a concept is genuinely dead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Venger said:

 

 

 

I would be happy with just a small UK home... that's what I pushed back against the association/suggestive post that owning 2 homes in UK is not really a big deal vs owning a larger home in US.   

 

 


 

 

I push back against people who misrepresent people's posts and try to attribute mistaken associations, suggestions and meanings in them that don't exist along with ad hominems etc.  I also push back against tiny UK homes with associated crazy prices and those who align themselves with the lenders who feed off that.

Edited by billybong

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, billybong said:

I push back against people who misrepresent people's posts and try to attribute mistaken associations, suggestions and meanings in them that don't exist along with ad hominems etc.  I also push back against tiny UK homes with associated crazy prices and those who align themselves with the lenders who feed off that.

Yeah yeah yeah - sure thing.  

You've done nothing but have a go at me ever since I asked what you meant about someone owning 2 houses in UK being like owning 1/3rd of a house in the USA, and telling you how it read to me.  You could have given me an explanation.  You have only gone on the attack and shown how weak your position is... and given me an incredible new look at how distorted your view about UK property really is. 

No one is forcing anyone to buy the small/crappy homes the developers are currently building.

No one is forcing buyers to outbid others for those homes, and in part forcing others to stay renting against these house prices.

The lenders are mostly just a go-between in the market.  

The demand is there.  Buyers.  Adults making their own market choices to buy, and buy at these prices.  

In the UK there are millions of perfectly adequately sized family homes.  And millions of large fancy build homes.

Sure, many builders have been building smaller homes with little style... but no one forced to buy them.  Demand is there.  Also some builders been building mansions/large homes, which frustrates me for those sites can easily house 4-5 semis or a run of chic terrace townhouses.

Nothing much wrong with such homes (but some rooms tiny... I went to view).  Park nearby, and a large green that all owners/renters can use at the back.  Schools, shops... we can't all have mansions.  Although run of mansions in the surrounding roads, as it happens.  Many owned by older owners.  Many owned by older owners and those who also own BTLs/2nd properties that are nice sized family homes.

FAnYPOu.jpg

 

My landlord owns 4 or 5 of those family homes that he rents out.  Spacious, but not mansions.  Values of £300,000 to £400,000 each in this market.  His own home probably worth £800,000.   He's lived off renters for best part of 20 years, and 2008.... wow... 0.5%/QE really protected his position, vs all the claims that "buyers have been influenced by advertising / just wanted a home... got to help them the mostest quicky."

Except to you, multi-ownership of properties by one person/couple, can be glibly associated down as nothing much, when one looks at bigger houses in the USA.

When I asked a question and pointed out how your post read to me (about those who own 2 homes in UK being only owning about 1/3rd of a home in US), you went on the attack about me twisting your position, and trying to find hidden meaning... and raking up posts on a different thread, which I only backed down on for way to keep peace (and not to have some eternal view that you were in the right and I was wrong, for you to keep bringing up.  I still hold that it doesn't matter if 'some buyers have been influenced by advertising...').  

Advertising got nothing to do with it when people are buying £400K small homes / £700K Cambridge semis..... Timak's parents in law with hundreds of K in bank going into BTL... and happy about their new moar £5)K+  HPI mad-gainz within 12 months (probably £150K by now) ..... they all have agency and responsibility in their own market decisions, and the breakdown squad "advertising" .... well my concern is with priced out renter-savers.).

Yet, after trying to get you to give an explanation, you're still banging on about house size.... not recognising the fact there are millions of adequately sized family homes in UK, and that buyers are in the market for the smaller homes being built... freewill (can't all be blamed on bankers), at these high prices.   In a HPC, then at least those buyers make find it harder to outbid me for a semi.  Although been saying that for years now, and many such owners had £100K+ of HPI gainz. 

On 19/08/2017 at 1:27 AM, billybong said:

Even so owning a second home in the UK is still only owning about one third of a home in the US.

When you're not going on about how there are some buyers who may have been influenced by advertising.   I don't exist to bail them out, if there's a HPC because of 'influence of advertising'.   And everyone seizes on it, including £multi million pound property wealthy.  "Ahh look at the few buyers who overpaid... must save them to save value of my own home and my BTLs."   I saw it in 2008 from Master-Chief of HPI and the Property Wealthy themselves.  Wanted bailout to protect their own positions HPI wealth.  "Think of the few who overpaid".   I'm not here to protect Timak's relatives £multi-million-pound multi-housing rental position in a future HPC (already done that and spent many more years renting).  Owners/buyers/BTLers made their market choices.

What do you want?  Advertising to be banned?  People to only be allowed to buy houses if they have permission of select few HPCers who are 'in the top 5%*' - and see 95% of other people as incapable/beneath them?

*self-assessed (lol).

I've not seen you back away from your view that multiple home ownership by 1 person/couple is like owning a larger home in US/foreign country.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, billybong said:

I push back against people who misrepresent people's posts and try to attribute mistaken associations, suggestions and meanings in them that don't exist along with ad hominems etc.  I also push back against tiny UK homes with associated crazy prices and those who align themselves with the lenders who feed off that.

 

Is it 'the advertising' again.   Houses don't just buy themselves.  Buyers make their choices.  And they don't need Top-5% self-assessed superiors to guide them when they're paying these sort of prices for small homes... £400K+ in places.  £700K terraces in Cambridge.  They have position and make their own choices.

Around my parts it's mansion land.   4-5 bed family homes.  One older guy told me (rattling around in a house worth £1.5M) told me I could afford to buy a house near the local tip (ex-LHA stock... smelly tip).  And he was hoping I would do some top-flight work for him !!   No way.

All types of housing exist.   Small to mansion.

And when you compare 1 person owning 2 houses in the UK, to that of, "still it's just like owning 1/3rd of a house in the USA' - really makes me believe you lack understanding about the reality of the market.

That and your previous position on the 'the influence of adverting' on buyers.... and again evident in your post above... 'da banks small builds'.... like houses just buy themselves and buyers themselves not got anything to do with it / no agency or responsibility in choosing to buy some of these smaller newbuilds.

And it's been a mansion building 20 years around here.  And again in the last 5 years; mansion mansion mansion.  You're on about small homes and 'blaming banks' for freechoice of people buying them, and comparing multiple homeownership in UK by one person, to that as owning 1/3rd of a single home in the UK.

I'm against all the mansions that have been built around here... and still going on right now.  Mansion mansion mansion.  £2M+.

l5TO8K1.png

 

On sites where you could have built loads of perfectly decent (managable) well-built family sized homes.

You'd struggle to find a house worth less than £1m in that patch above (and same if I widened it right out), and many houses built last 3 years, with asking prices of £3M+ with gyms and swimming pools.

It frustrates me because so many plots could be a run for a whole lot of classy terrace/semis family homes.  

And where such smaller chic (managable size) family home terraces do exist, buyers still paying top prices for such smaller terraces (their own choice... not needing permission of those who think they are superior 5% with advanced understanding... and in my experience... some of them are idiots).   And of course the BTLers still hard in there.   The 2nd homeowners... 'but just think of it being nothing more than owning 1/3rd of a home in the USA' eh.   Rentiers.  

Oh... and if any HPC...(had years of people squealing about the future pain for owners if prices fall.... vs renters... "I care.. but I only care about owners") remember to post hard about 'the influence of advertising' that all owners have been under (victims).  (And the 2 owners/BTLers.. Timak's relatives who needed more vs their own home, and hundreds of thousands of pounds in the bank, and so chose to buy a BTL.... they need to be HPI protected... yes.)

NhVCSzN.jpg

 

D3ZC5k9.jpg

 

Rffy3Zo.jpg

 

q1EbgHU.jpg

 

Awwwww..... 2nd homeowners... such houses must be like only owning 1/3rd of a single property in the USA.... think of the UK multiple homeowners and the disadvantages they are suffering !!!  ("Advertising blame if prices fall / protect the HPI" / "big bad banks forcing a few people to buy tiny newbuilds in Cambridge/SE at new peak £500,000").

 

1u6T4HT.jpg

 

Edited by Venger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, billybong said:

I push back against people who misrepresent people's posts and try to attribute mistaken associations, suggestions and meanings in them that don't exist along with ad hominems etc.  I also push back against tiny UK homes with associated crazy prices and those who align themselves with the lenders who feed off that.

Buyers buy houses.... at these associated crazy prices.   Bankers not dragging anyone in to take a mortgage.  Some buyers buy outright.  Bomads and their mad-gainz help adult children buy houses.  Market.  BTLers also buy small homes at fortunes.  Seen one house sell three times over the past 8 years, at ever higher prices, and each time return to market as a rental.  

9+ years of HPCers telling me of the crazy prices, only to see prices double again... HPI+++ year after year after year, and a BTLer double down.

 

1 hour ago, Venger said:

Is it 'the advertising' again.   Houses don't just buy themselves.  Buyers make their choices.  And they don't need Top-5% self-assessed superiors to guide them when they're paying these sort of prices for small homes... £400K+ in places.  £700K terraces in Cambridge.  They have position and make their own choices.

.......

D3ZC5k9.jpg

And of course... the number of houses on the market at the moment are scraping record-lows.

No one is stopping any of the 'homeowning victims' at 'associated crazy prices' from selling in many areas... cashing in on incredible valuations.

As so few are trying to sell, it's a clear association that many are happy to own (vs renting) /fear no risk of any falls in value.

And buyers still out of freewill, choosing to meet 'associated crazy prices' every single day.. going to viewings, instructing solicitors/exchanging and completing.   Houses are bought by people.  Sometimes they need mortgages, in order to buy at the price seller and buyer agree at (often far more than others can afford to pay/willing to pay).  It's a market.  

Quote

 

All time low in houses for sale - and the numbers are still falling

Fewer homes on sale, fewer sales, but prices are still rising - the latest report

13 April 2017
http://www.mirror.co.uk/money/time-low-houses-sale-numbers-10213356

 

 

 

I've been on HPC reading people blaming 'influence of advertising' since 2007, fretting about position of owners.

Blaming everything apart the BTLers themselves, for the BTLers buying up houses. 

I've seen house prices double and treble in value along the way.... 9 years.. each year post after post blaming bankers / influence of advertising / the victim homeowners.

Vs all the rent I've paid out to multiple owning BTL landlords.  £100,000+.   I stick up for the position of renter-savers -vs- those who put owners above all else.   Small homes at super expensive prices are being bought by buyers/BTLers/HPI spreadsheeters.... their own market choice (and proven to be success for so many years in wealth of the housing speculators / regular owners... who never needed anyone else's permission/approval to buy.)

8 months later I see a seller hoping to get substantially more than house above sold for Dec 2016, on same development of managble small homes (in an area surrounding by mansions each valued at £millions of pounds).  Market.  If finds a buyer, then that buyer made own market choice.  Perhaps will find a BTLer to buy, or a 2nd homeowner to make their position like a large-home 1-homeowner in Ohio. :rolleyes:

kHyQ82s.png

 

Quote

billybong:  Even so owning a second home in the UK is still only owning about one third of a home in the US.

 

Edited by Venger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Venger said:

...

...

 

 

 

20 hours ago, Venger said:

...

...

21 hours ago, Venger said:

...

...

 

 

To save HPC computer space, avoid clutter and make it easier to read I haven't copied the text and images etc in your essays and archives in my post.  I've only skimmed the content as I'm busy and it seems to repeat a lot of stuff you've already posted several times on HPC in exchanges both with myself and with numerous others.  Believe me little or nothing in your current work on this thread accurately describes my stance or my opinion on UK house sizes,  house prices,  marketing etc - your repeated ad hominems speak volumes about yourself. 

You refer again to my initial post on this thread which was.

Quote

 

billybong:  Even so owning a second home in the UK is still only owning about one third of a home in the US

 

My various replies to you already cover this including

Quote

billybong:  No I'm not saying that - nothing like anything you're surmising.  You're twisting things again and making a big deal out of a passing remark about the relative sizes of US homes compared to UK homes.

when I explained my initial post.  I repeat my initial post was a passing remark about how tiny the average UK home is and there's nothing else to be read in it.  I think it is always worth remarking how tiny UK homes are in comparison to many if not most other countries.

You do say

Quote

You've done nothing but have a go at me ever since I asked what you meant about someone owning 2 houses in UK being like owning 1/3rd of a house in the USA, and telling you how it read to me. 

Surprised to read that I looked back on this thread again and I do question whether you've got that just a bit out of perspective and out of balance.

and you say

Quote

and raking up posts on a different thread, which I only backed down on for way to keep peace.

I had thought you were sincere in that January exchange when you explained your circumstances to me to justify what seemed to me to be similarly inaccurate comments on and interpretations of my posts at that time.  

As for your intellect ad hominem - you so perfect.  I think mine is at least on a par with yours.  

Edited by billybong

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 276 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.