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1 in 10 owns second home

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The Labour government pushed for this as a second pension. They drove the train, then handed it over to the conservatives, who continued the journey up to the cliff top. Either way it will eventually crash ?

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1 hour ago, maverick73 said:

The Labour government pushed for this as a second pension. They drove the train, then handed it over to the conservatives, who continued the journey up to the cliff top. Either way it will eventually crash ?

Asset price inflation is a global phonomeum - house prices have ballooned whilst work has not paid. More to do with unaccountability of financial central banks and other institutions. The cohort of middle class have not benefited in western Europe or the usa. Hence brexit/trump. 

IMO it will be a global change, when the change occurs.

 

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17 minutes ago, advicewelcome said:

Asset price inflation is a global phonomeum - house prices have ballooned whilst work has not paid. More to do with unaccountability of financial central banks and other institutions. The cohort of middle class have not benefited in western Europe or the usa. Hence brexit/trump. 

IMO it will be a global change, when the change occurs.

 

Makes sense...;)

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3 hours ago, advicewelcome said:

Asset price inflation is a global phonomeum - house prices have ballooned whilst work has not paid. More to do with unaccountability of financial central banks and other institutions. The cohort of middle class have not benefited in western Europe or the usa. Hence brexit/trump. 

IMO it will be a global change, when the change occurs.

 

Economic 101 - drop interest rates, means money in the bank earns little interest. They money is therefore shifted into assets and commodities. When interest rates rise, money shifts back into banks and assets and commoditie values decline.

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Good as thread as any to add:......hasn't anybody noticed how the NHS is being discredited, pulled down, made to be not as good as it once was.....lots of money to be made from the privitisation of the health service, massive amounts to be made from health insurance...your regular big high street firm getting into the health bonanza.....be aware, be prepared, it is happening, it will happen....what do I know?

 

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6 hours ago, VeryMeanReversion said:

That's the way it works.

Yep. If you think you going to lose you job. Make sure you don't have more than 6k in the bank. As they can see that. I knew my job was in danger for six months before so I saved for rainy day just not in the bank. 

If you do have more than 6k in bank make sure each month you take a sum out each month to live on. Just pretend you spent it. After six months you go on means tested. No money means you can claim.

If you want to claim council tax make sure you have empty bank account and you claim 75 reduction on council tax straight away.

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Also I've never been of the mind to expect other taxpayers to bail me out.  

Hehe... "buy a house now,  and expect mug taxpayer to pay if lose job - vs renters and their silly attempt at trying to save.  Don't save so can claim."

GirlyGirlyGirl blew their big savings pot quickly (and secretly) on home-improvements so they could qualify for mortgage-rescue in 2009-2010.  

It's been that way for years (oohhh can rely on taxpayer and SMI vs the daft renters)

Would rather rent and take all the risks vs expecting taxpayers to bail me out, if my situation were to change and if couldn't find something else immediately.

And as you know, for all the 'better buy now' & 'you're money not save in the bank' positioning you're doing, SMI is changing soon anyway.  Becoming a charge.

Meaning another market turn, for there will be fewer buyers thinking they can rely on Joe & Sarah renter-saver taxpayer to bail them out if the homeowner's situation changes... and so fewer people dancing into buying at whatever the silly high price.   So can lead to another reason to expect house prices to fall.

£6K.... where does £6K+ go against house prices.  If you're bottling it over £6K+ in savings account vs these house prices...   

"Have no savings so can claim."  (The way ahead in life !!)

Claim claim claim claim claim.  All that goes through some people's heads.  Don't save.. spend spend spend.  "Taxpayer to protect me.... no end to silly risks for magic bailout."  Well SMI is changing soon.   It's pretty poor behaviour expecting others to pick up the tab (and often people with lot less in many instance who were outbid for housing by the claimant minds), and I hope it gets found out.

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6 hours ago, advicewelcome said:

Asset price inflation is a global phonomeum - house prices have ballooned whilst work has not paid. More to do with unaccountability of financial central banks and other institutions. The cohort of middle class have not benefited in western Europe or the usa. Hence brexit/trump. 

IMO it will be a global change, when the change occurs.

Don't buy that. Massive differences between the inflation of house prices in the UK and the US and whilst QE has impacted a broad range of assets there is still a difference between the outside gains of land investments in some geographical markets and, for example, blue chip shares. The FTSE isn't far from where it was twenty years ago, the same is not true of houses in Stoke Newington.

Also, it's not class which has determined whether or not you got to ride the HPI bubble and benefit from the run up of house prices, it's age - and the older voters were the ones who really showed up for the Leave vote.

Also "phonomeum"? WTF? I think I used to have one of those. It could play 78s and MiniDiscs

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15 minutes ago, Bland Unsight said:

 

Also "phonomeum"? WTF? I think I used to have one of those. It could play 78s and MiniDiscs

 

You're mistaken there - I think you'll find phonomeums are the magic attraction-chemicals that allow people like Busta to attract glamorous Russian brides who simply can't help themselves when caught by its mysterious odourless magnetism (the spray that is, not Busta). Extracted from the glands of randy skunks, and imported in atomisers via an ENTIRELY LEGITIMATE PO box in East London. It works every time. PM me for the address to send your cheque to.

Edited by Si1

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14 hours ago, Venger said:

Also I've never been of the mind to expect other taxpayers to bail me out.  

Hehe... "buy a house now,  and expect mug taxpayer to pay if lose job - vs renters and their silly attempt at trying to save.  Don't save so can claim."

GirlyGirlyGirl blew their big savings pot quickly (and secretly) on home-improvements so they could qualify for mortgage-rescue in 2009-2010.  

It's been that way for years (oohhh can rely on taxpayer and SMI vs the daft renters)

Would rather rent and take all the risks vs expecting taxpayers to bail me out, if my situation were to change and if couldn't find something else immediately.

And as you know, for all the 'better buy now' & 'you're money not save in the bank' positioning you're doing, SMI is changing soon anyway.  Becoming a charge.

Meaning another market turn, for there will be fewer buyers thinking they can rely on Joe & Sarah renter-saver taxpayer to bail them out if the homeowner's situation changes... and so fewer people dancing into buying at whatever the silly high price.   So can lead to another reason to expect house prices to fall.

£6K.... where does £6K+ go against house prices.  If you're bottling it over £6K+ in savings account vs these house prices...   

"Have no savings so can claim."  (The way ahead in life !!)

Claim claim claim claim claim.  All that goes through some people's heads.  Don't save.. spend spend spend.  "Taxpayer to protect me.... no end to silly risks for magic bailout."  Well SMI is changing soon.   It's pretty poor behaviour expecting others to pick up the tab (and often people with lot less in many instance who were outbid for housing by the claimant minds), and I hope it gets found out.

yep its rubbish system. my workmate also lost his job at the same time. he rents and he told me he was 400quid worse of a month not including petrol cost to work.

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12 hours ago, Bland Unsight said:

Don't buy that. Massive differences between the inflation of house prices in the UK and the US and whilst QE has impacted a broad range of assets there is still a difference between the outside gains of land investments in some geographical markets and, for example, blue chip shares. The FTSE isn't far from where it was twenty years ago, the same is not true of houses in Stoke Newington.

Also, it's not class which has determined whether or not you got to ride the HPI bubble and benefit from the run up of house prices, it's age - and the older voters were the ones who really showed up for the Leave vote.

Also "phonomeum"? WTF? I think I used to have one of those. It could play 78s and MiniDiscs

Which asset class has out preformed is subject to the the time window you look at

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/investing/article-2958803/Cash-stocks-property-best-returns-past-30-years.html

Unlike other assets classes, housing effects the fabric of society and thus political intervention occurs within a socialist orientated country which inturn skews market forces that sets asset prices.

The current MSM negative press, the snap election, may speak to a political acknowledged that things should or will change at this time.

Older voters are a higher percentile in any vote due to changing demographics and possible greater involvement/connections to the political classes.

Who could have known, we would be looking back at the 2008 crash 10 years later and coming to the conclusions we are now (both winners and losers).

To stop this forum from being an outlet for sour grapes we should debate the cause and effects to establish the best way forward. 

Most people regret not piling into property and debt leverage over the last 10 years - and then selling up before brexit.

10 years from now - what would we wished we had done?

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22 minutes ago, advicewelcome said:

Which asset class has out preformed is subject to the the time window you look at

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/investing/article-2958803/Cash-stocks-property-best-returns-past-30-years.html

Unlike other assets classes, housing effects the fabric of society and thus political intervention occurs within a socialist orientated country which inturn skews market forces that sets asset prices.

The current MSM negative press, the snap election, may speak to a political acknowledged that things should or will change at this time.

Older voters are a higher percentile in any vote due to changing demographics and possible greater involvement/connections to the political classes.

Who could have known, we would be looking back at the 2008 crash 10 years later and coming to the conclusions we are now (both winners and losers).

To stop this forum from being an outlet for sour grapes we should debate the cause and effects to establish the best way forward. 

Most people regret not piling into property and debt leverage over the last 10 years - and then selling up before brexit.

10 years from now - what would we wished we had done?

Not me.

I regret not piling into Bitcoin seven years ago and selling last week, much more profitable and far less hassle than messing around with property.

Edit: And don't worry about "this forum", it's been around far longer than the 6 weeks you've been posting and will be around long after you've departed.

Edited by Bruce Banner

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56 minutes ago, advicewelcome said:

10 years from now - what would we wished we had done?

Here's 2 of several answers to your question if asked 10 years ago:

Click on "Charts & Performance". https://www.charles-stanley-direct.co.uk/ViewFund?Sedol=0745088

Click on "Charts & Performance". https://www.charles-stanley-direct.co.uk/ViewFund?Sedol=B4TZHH9&Isin=GB00B4TZHH95

Sold instantly in a few clicks and you're done.

vs Selling a house, finding a buyer, haggling, advertising, fees, etc.

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37 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

Not me.

I regret not piling into Bitcoin seven years ago and selling last week, much more profitable and far less hassle than messing around with property.

Edit: And don't worry about "this forum", it's been around far longer than the 6 weeks you've been posting and will be around long after you've departed.

Well, I actually lost around £100 trying to short bitcoin. Good thing I didn't bet more or had looser "stop loss". 

But you can't look at something retrospectively and say "I regret not doing this" -- anyone can be a millionaire with a time machine or crystal ball.

In 5 years from now people might be looking back and saying "I regret taking that mortgage" ... No one really knows.

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5 minutes ago, tm_81 said:

Well, I actually lost around £100 trying to short bitcoin. Good thing I didn't bet more or had looser "stop loss". 

But you can't look at something retrospectively and say "I regret not doing this" -- anyone can be a millionaire with a time machine or crystal ball.

In 5 years from now people might be looking back and saying "I regret taking that mortgage" ... No one really knows.

My point exactly.

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I chose not to do what is/was best, on principle.

No way am I going to stretch to buy a house, outbidding all others by crazy amounts, and then land the tax-payer with SMI bill.

I don't care how much it may have put me ahead financially -vs- being a rent-forever-loser, who can't claim from the Gov (too much in savings) if employment circumstances were to change down.  Who has to dip into their savings to pay the rent in full, until finding new employment.

To read GirlyGirlyGirl and her husband burn through some £40K of their savings (including a new flash kitchen) sometime around 2009, so they could qualify for mortgage-rescue (couldn't have savings over certain limit) really turned my stomach.  

G-Brown at the time going on about 'the innocents'.  Y-Cooper... "They just wanted a home, and I think they a good thing blah blah"  vs Andrew Neil and incredible levels of debt people had chosen to get into in 2008.    Then came the QE/Zirp... and suddenly big recruitment including dull-old-boy I know going from redundancy to new job in Whitehall, on big new QE money/spend recruitment.

Also bugs that many of the claimants of SMI outbid those who were unwilling to pay the prices the SMI claimants chose to pay for the house.  So grateful the SMI rules are changing.   Fewer buyers going to pay as much when they discover that state won't pay mortgage interest for them, and that it becomes a charge against equity in their home (or similar).  

1 hour ago, Bruce Banner said:

Not me.

I regret not piling into Bitcoin seven years ago and selling last week, much more profitable and far less hassle than messing around with property.

Edit: And don't worry about "this forum", it's been around far longer than the 6 weeks you've been posting and will be around long after you've departed.

:)

They can take their property gainz, and their 'intelligence / smart' about it and stuff it.  Especially in BTL.

Just rode the bubble, and the BTLers especially responsible for the damage it has caused.  

Bitcoin and other similar stuff/investments does not get in the way in other people. :)

BTL / buying up more and more properties, forces hardship on other people.... societally destructive selfishness, for people who can't hack it in the real world.  And for some reason been allowed to lock in gainz for so many years.  Things are changing with S24.  SDLT 2nd homes.   Values are found at the margin.

Quote

 

Nothing is more amusing than to watch the efforts of land monopolists to claim that other forms of property and increment are similar in all respects to land and the unearned increment on land.

But see how misleading and false all those analogies are. The windfalls from the sale of a picture -- a Van Dyke or a Holbein -- may be very considerable. But pictures do not get in anybody's way.

They do not lay a toll on anybody's labor; they do not touch enterprise and production; they do not affect the creative processes on which the material well-being of millions depends.

If a rise in stocks confers profits on the fortunate holders far beyond what they expected or indeed deserved, nevertheless that profit was not reaped by withholding from the community the land which it needs; on the contrary, it was reaped by supplying industry with the capital without which it could not be carried on.


..Fancy comparing these healthy processes with the enrichment which comes to the landlord who happens to own a plot of land on the outskirts of a great city, who watches the busy population around him making the city larger, richer, more convenient, more famous every day, and all the while sits still and does nothing.

Roads are made, streets are made, services are improved, electric light turns night into day, water is brought from reservoirs a hundred miles off in the mountains -- and all the while the landlord sits still. Every one of those improvements is effected by the labor and cost of other people and the taxpayers. To not one of those improvements does the land monopolist, as a land monopolist, contribute, and yet by every one of them the value of his land is enhanced. He renders no service to the community, he contributes nothing to the general welfare, he contributes nothing to the process from which his own enrichment is derived.

 

 

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58 minutes ago, tm_81 said:

Well, I actually lost around £100 trying to short bitcoin. Good thing I didn't bet more or had looser "stop loss". 

But you can't look at something retrospectively and say "I regret not doing this" -- anyone can be a millionaire with a time machine or crystal ball.

In 5 years from now people might be looking back and saying "I regret taking that mortgage" ... No one really knows.

It would not have been the act of a genius to assume an increase in asset prices with the massive pumping of QE into the system and post crisis ZIRP/other policies. 

Why did we not see it? Cause the average man does not have easy insights to institutional actions and effects? Or because the institutions themselves did not expect the outcomes due to their out of date models? Does that mean the institutional levers are rendered more and more impotent now? 

Does it feel like we have reached a inflection time in the property market after a bull run in particular regions? Anyone on board with the growing consensus that the next phase will mark a reflation cycle through governments spending now directed to infrastructure to put money into average Joe's pocket - which QE has not done. 

People make life changing decisions based on the major investment of property, thus am curious on the expected effects on this asset in light of the changes which seem to be in play. 

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33 minutes ago, advicewelcome said:

.. Moreover what is there a general message to the many people at this time who have put their lives on hold due to years of HPC - wait, buy, sell, rent, invest elsewhere?

"Lives on hold"........... Love it :lol:........ any more where that came from?

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1 hour ago, advicewelcome said:

It would not have been the act of a genius to assume an increase in asset prices with the massive pumping of QE into the system and post crisis ZIRP/other policies. 

Why did we not see it? Cause the average man does not have easy insights to institutional actions and effects? Or because the institutions themselves did not expect the outcomes due to their out of date models? Does that mean the institutional levers are rendered more and more impotent now? 

Does it feel like we have reached a inflection time in the property market after a bull run in particular regions? Anyone on board with the growing consensus that the next phase will mark a reflation cycle through governments spending now directed to infrastructure to put money into average Joe's pocket - which QE has not done. 

People make life changing decisions based on the major investment of property, thus am curious on the expected effects on this asset in light of the changes which seem to be in play. 

What?

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On ‎19‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 10:01 AM, nnails said:

Yep I acknowledge that it's bad to think this way. I brought a house two years ago. About 8 months ago I lost my job. If I had money in bank I would not have been able to claim anything after six months. Because I had no money in bank. I got dole money , council tax help and cover for my mortgage.  If I did not own a house I would have had to burn though my savings for my house.

Before anyone says dole scrounger I had my job for 9 years.

I start my new job September 

yes owners of property are a very privileged group. Tptb make renting as unappealing as poss, they want us fighting like dogs in the street over housing, the more we compete for housing the richer and more powerful the owners of land property become.

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  • 276 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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