Landlords want rent payments included in tenants credit histories

[Sancho Panza]

Property Industry Eye 18/8/17

'Rent payments should be included when calculating credit scores to support tenants wanting to buy a home of their own.

The Residential Landlords Association is writing to the Government, calling on it to work with the industry to include rent payment history as a standard feature when calculating credit stores.

RLA chairman Alan Ward said: “With many tenants wanting to buy a house of their own, it is absurd rent payment is not routinely included when undertaking credit checks for mortgage applications.

“Moving to such a scheme would help not just tenants, but also landlords by giving them a clearer sense of whether a prospective tenant has historically paid their rent in full and on time.”

There is a scheme called the Rental Exchange, available from Experian via the Credit Ladder platform. The Rental Exchange incorporates a tenant’s payment history into their credit file.

Yesterday Sheraz Dar, CEO of Credit Ladder, said he agreed with the RLA’s campaign.

He said: “CreditLadder was set up to enable tenants to ensure their regular rent payments were added to their credit score, and we make it clear that if they fail to pay their rent this will be passed on to Experian as well. We’ve already processed rents in excess of £7.5m.”'

 

 

So,basically,when the Landlord doesn't fix the boiler and you're forced to withhold rent to pay for it,the LL can punish you for his inadeqaucy..................?

I love how the argument is framed against the backdrop of trying help tenants buy into the Ponzi scheme.

 

 

Edited August 18, 2017 by Sancho Panza

[Democorruptcy]

22 minutes ago, Sancho Panza said:

Property Industry Eye 18/8/17

So,basically,when the Landlord doesn't fix the boiler and you're forced to withhold rent to pay for it,the LL can punish you for his inadeqaucy..................?

I love how the argument is framed against the backdrop of trying help tenants buy into the Ponzi scheme.

 

 

In the comments someone posted a link to https://www.laterent.co.uk/

Quote

Register with us for free and add your Tenants.
Your Tenant's info goes on to their own credit rating file with Equifax and will be available to credit agencies for future references. Good Tenants build good ratings

So a landlord can already pass on your personal details and potentially ruin your credit record? 

[Sancho Panza]

3 minutes ago, Democorruptcy said:

In the comments someone posted a link to https://www.laterent.co.uk/

So a landlord can already pass on your personal details and potentially ruin your credit record? 

I didn't read the comments so thanks for that.I'm somewhat surprised there isn't a data protection issue here,given that EA's are unregulated and let's be frankly honest,some of the most untrustworthy people I've ever met-and I've met some shady characters in my time.

Nothing to stop the unscrupulous screwing people over for asking for repairs.

 

[msi]

sure. so long as I can see my landlords BTL leverage ratio and know when they are in arrears....then to inflict some rent pauses

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, Sancho Panza said:

I didn't read the comments so thanks for that.I'm somewhat surprised there isn't a data protection issue here,given that EA's are unregulated and let's be frankly honest,some of the most untrustworthy people I've ever met-and I've met some shady characters in my time.

Nothing to stop the unscrupulous screwing people over for asking for repairs.

 

My experience as well, as I type I am thinking of one family in particular who you would not cross, they would just use this for the fun of it, I would not be too keen on crossing them.

When I see tenants rights vastly improve with the introduction of at least 5 years tenancy agreements or compensation should LL's break it then we might be on the right track, cheeky sods.

[Bland Unsight]

Such a lot of nonsense.

I would imagine that there are two reasons people don't pay their rent; either they're "a little bit woah" or  they are genuinely struggling to afford it. Surely once people start struggling with the rent they'll make use of any credit they can access  before they start failing to pay the rent? Hence by the time a failure to pay rent might act as a red flag on a credit history the individual would already be having problems meeting existing credit agreements (because one of the main priorities when it came to defraying their income against their outgoings was the rent).

And of course the people who are 'a little bit woah' don't give a monkeys about their credit history so it won't affect them either. It's just a bloody stupid idea predicated on a complete failure by daft apeths like Alan Ward to understand why tenants sometimes don't pay the rent. It's just typical RLA idiocy.

[Democorruptcy]

1 hour ago, Sancho Panza said:

I didn't read the comments so thanks for that.I'm somewhat surprised there isn't a data protection issue here,given that EA's are unregulated and let's be frankly honest,some of the most untrustworthy people I've ever met-and I've met some shady characters in my time.

Nothing to stop the unscrupulous screwing people over for asking for repairs.

 

So am I, as someone who was the victim of fraud I find it disgusting. I'm going to follow it up.

[Dorkins]

Credit history = record of servicing debt. Tenants pay rent in advance, so what debt are they servicing? Other than their parasite landlord's mortgage I mean.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Dorkins

[mat109]

3 hours ago, Sancho Panza said:

Property Industry Eye 18/8/17

'Rent payments should be included when calculating credit scores to support tenants wanting to buy a home of their own.

The Residential Landlords Association is writing to the Government, calling on it to work with the industry to include rent payment history as a standard feature when calculating credit stores.

RLA chairman Alan Ward said: “With many tenants wanting to buy a house of their own, it is absurd rent payment is not routinely included when undertaking credit checks for mortgage applications.

 

Other than the other problems pointed out by others - most people pay their rent in advance, not in arrears. It's not credit at all as it's paid prior to consumption and not after it.

Thankfully, the RLA are seeing sense and suggesting a change. All rent to be paid in arrears and that will soften that massive upfront tenancy cost. How nice.

Edited August 18, 2017 by mat109
typo

[bearishonhouses]

1 hour ago, Dorkins said:

Credit history = record of servicing debt. Tenants pay rent in advance, so what debt are they servicing? Other than their parasite landlord's mortgage I mean.

I do not know where you get your definition of 'credit history', it seems somewhat narrow to me. A more useful definition would recognize that a credit rating reflects the individual's past history of making good on their commitments and is an estimate of the likelihood that they will continue to do so in the future.   Certainly, from an economic perspective, signing a lease commits the lessee to make certain payments. I would hope that when the bank lends out the money that I have lent to them, they will make a reasonable attempt to assess the likelihood that they will be repaid, and hence I will be repaid. Looking at an individual's history on keeping up with all commitments is relevant.

 

The availability of credit ratings allows lenders to distinguish between  high and low credit risks so that credit worthy borrowers do not subsidize less credit worthy borrowers. (You realize that if the banks cannot distinguish between the two, they banks are going to ensure they get their money back by charging an appropriately high interest rate to the 'average' borrower, right?) 

Having said that, I totally agree that unless such a reporting system could be set up in a way that prevents landlords to falsely report tenants' actions, the downsides do not outweigh the upsides.

 

 

[Bland Unsight]

10 minutes ago, bearishonhouses said:

I do not know where you get your definition of 'credit history', it seems somewhat narrow to me. A more useful definition would recognize that a credit rating reflects the individual's past history of making good on their commitments and is an estimate of the likelihood that they will continue to do so in the future. 

A very incisive piece of argument requiring only that we first set aside the meaning of the word credit before beginning the analysis of what a credit score is supposed to tell us.

Also sits rather badly with how the credit rating companies describe what they do.

Quote

Your Experian Credit Score is a straight forward way of showing how lenders may view you, based on information in your Experian Credit Report. The better your credit score the better your chances are of getting a credit card, a loan or even a mortgage, along with great rates for each. Your Experian Credit Report allows you to see the information lenders use when carrying out a credit check.

Source

Hence I am totally convinced by your argument. By treating the word credit as describing a relationship between lender and borrower, Dorkins has really lost the plot.

I mean it's just so obvious that a landlord is extending a loan and thus creating a credit agreement. The real mystery is why rent wasn't included in credit scores years ago.

[Bland Unsight]

1 hour ago, mat109 said:

Thankfully, the RLA are seeing sense and suggesting a change. All rent to be paid in arrears and that will soften that massive upfront tenancy cost. How nice.

I believe that the RLA are also advocating that tenants be allowed to run up vast arrears without any negative consequences or being deemed in breach of their tenancies provided they service the interest charge on the arrears at an agreed rate of interest.

Seriously, these RLA guys are the real deal. I heard it argued that they are a bunch of idiotic clowns, but look at the quality of their policy work here. It speaks with clarity to the kind of organisation that the RLA actually is; people shouldn't be fooled into thinking that they are witless amateurs just because many of their members are witless amateurs.

[bearishonhouses]

2 minutes ago, Bland Unsight said:

A very incisive piece of argument requiring only that we first set aside the meaning of the word credit before beginning the analysis of what a credit score is supposed to tell us.

 

The word credit comes from the latin credere - to trust or believe. Going back to the C14 when the term was first introduced in talking about accounting, the term credit refers to whether or not a lender trusted the borrower to do what they said they would - typically borrowing money, but also with respect to making good on a promise to share profits of a voyage.

[Bland Unsight]

2 minutes ago, bearishonhouses said:

The word credit comes from the latin credere - to trust or believe. Going back to the C14 when the term was first introduced in talking about accounting, the term credit refers to whether or not a lender trusted the borrower to do what they said they would - typically borrowing money, but also with respect to making good on a promise to share profits of a voyage.

That 'argument' dies an inglorious death at the feet of Wittgenstein's private language argument. Some daft as a brush appeal to the etymology of the word will not save you from an honest engagement with its actual meaning today in this actual context.

Offering a daft opinion is one thing. Trying to defend an indefensible position with another daft argument is worse. Give up.

 

[bearishonhouses]

1 hour ago, Bland Unsight said:

That 'argument' dies an inglorious death at the feet of Wittgenstein's private language argument. Some daft as a brush appeal to the etymology of the word will not save you from an honest engagement with its actual meaning today in this actual context.

Offering a daft opinion is one thing. Trying to defend an indefensible position with another daft argument is worse. Give up.

 

The aggression of some (including you) on this forum is really counter-productive. Name calling - and clearly, to you, 'landlord' is an insult - at best helps you feel good about yourselves but I cannot see that it helps bring about what most of us want (including me) - a reduction in house prices in the UK so that we can afford to buy just one house. 

Anyway, feel free to cast another pointless insult and have the last word, so that you can tell yourself that you won. I shall not respond further. 

[Bland Unsight]

1 hour ago, bearishonhouses said:

The aggression of some (including you) on this forum is really counter-productive. Name calling - and clearly, to you, 'landlord' is an insult - at best helps you feel good about yourselves but I cannot see that it helps bring about what most of us want (including me) - a reduction in house prices in the UK so that we can afford to buy just one house. 

Anyway, feel free to cast another pointless insult and have the last word, so that you can tell yourself that you won. I shall not respond further. 

Outrageous. Firstly, I didn't call you any names, it was Ludwig not me. Secondly he gave you three options, including a non-landlord option.

It's not about winning or losing, it's about discourse (possibly robust discourse). And that discourse has merit for many reasons, not least the pleasure of testing one's inchoate ideas against the thoughts of others.

Returning to topic, the idea that an AST is a credit agreement is a non-starter which you have manifestly failed to start. Given the quality of argument you've offered here I don't feel you've established much in the way of credentials that entitle you to tell others how to post.

See you around

Edited August 18, 2017 by Bland Unsight

[Bland Unsight]

1 hour ago, bearishonhouses said:

Anyway, feel free to cast another pointless insult and have the last word, so that you can tell yourself that you won. I shall not respond further. 

I've been active on the forum for knocking on six years now and this is not the first time that the following cycle has repeated

• I 'get into it' because of the content of another poster's post
• During the process of 'getting into it' I have a very vague recollection of having the other poster down as a bit of a cheeky monkey
• Conclude the discussion with the other poster
• Eventually get around to reviewing their activity
• Lay eyes on the basis of the 'vague recollection'.

And here it is with you.

I have some advice for you which, given your inclination to tell other people how to post, I am sure you will welcome (DAYWBDB and all that): Lay off making too many assumptions about other people's motivations. Ludwig Wittgenstein meant no harm when he suggested that you were either a troll, a landlord or a troll landlord. If you  are none of those things (and perhaps even if you are are both of those things) it ought to be water off a duck's back.

Who cares what some nut on the internet thinks?

The value of the activity (i.e posting on the forum) is the collation of interesting things and the chance to discuss those things. All the troll hunting, all the flame wars - it's all just a distraction. It seems to me that there is actually far less of that kind of disruptive posting on the forum now, compared to the time when I started posting and the threads I was reading before I was posting (but I'm willing to admit that memory, attention bias and selection bias mean that this opinion ain't much by way of evidence). It also seems to me that anyone who comes here with the most constructive elements in mind will not be too troubled if some loudmouth (e.g. me) gets the wrong end of the stick and incorrectly imputes motives which have no substance in fact. You are not a troll or a landlord just because Ludwig Wittgenstein makes a meme to that effect and other posters won't think you are a troll or a landlord just because Ludwig Wittgenstein suggests that you might be. We're all grown-ups here. We are all capable of taking a level-headed view of the sketchy evidence and keeping an open mind.

That said, the idea that an AST is a credit agreement is still as dumb as rocks. I'm not saying that you're as dumb as rocks, but that post you made earlier - IMO it is rock-dumb fo' shizzle.

Edited August 19, 2017 by Bland Unsight

[Darby Ram]

7 hours ago, Sancho Panza said:

I didn't read the comments so thanks for that.I'm somewhat surprised there isn't a data protection issue here,given that EA's are unregulated and let's be frankly honest,some of the most untrustworthy people I've ever met-and I've met some shady characters in my time.

Nothing to stop the unscrupulous screwing people over for asking for repairs.

 

This is a pretty astonishing business model. From their terms and conditions:

Quote

1. Users must obtain the applicants signed authorisation prior to a report or check being submitted. LateRent & Landlord Secure provides this service on the understanding that the user has obtained such authorisation from the applicant for credit reference & debt collection (including tracing services) agencies to be consulted and for enquiries relating to their financial and moral standing to be checked. Failure to gain this authorisation is in breach of the Data Protection Act (1998).

i.e., this is the self-cert mortgage of the 'legally-acquired' data world. I would be amazed if any tenant is putting a signature to this willingly. Perhaps if it was bundled as a clause in a AST contract but, even then, it would be one of those unreasonable clauses that would be laughed out of court. The ICO should stick the boot into them, and the big boys buying their data, sharpish.  

Edited August 19, 2017 by Darby Ram

[Bland Unsight]

12 hours ago, bearishonhouses said:

The aggression of some (including you) on this forum is really counter-productive. Name calling - and clearly, to you, 'landlord' is an insult - at best helps you feel good about yourselves but I cannot see that it helps bring about what most of us want (including me) - a reduction in house prices in the UK so that we can afford to buy just one house. 

Anyway, feel free to cast another pointless insult and have the last word, so that you can tell yourself that you won. I shall not respond further. 

A bit more research on you...

If I'd remembered at the get go this was you I might have been a little less diplomatic when engaging in a discussion about your fascinating insights into how ASTs are basically the same as loans.

 

Edited August 19, 2017 by Bland Unsight

[Venger]

7 hours ago, bearishonhouses said:

The aggression of some (including you) on this forum is really counter-productive. Name calling - and clearly, to you, 'landlord' is an insult - at best helps you feel good about yourselves but I cannot see that it helps bring about what most of us want (including me) - a reduction in house prices in the UK so that we can afford to buy just one house. 

Anyway, feel free to cast another pointless insult and have the last word, so that you can tell yourself that you won. I shall not respond further. 

 

Standing up to those who would aggressively seek to close down discussion, and anything that challenges their own point of view, is not agression.

You are the aggressive one, bearishonhouses, with all your put-down claims against people on the forum, vs the Master-of-Forums is back to tell us how to post from his position of all-knowing superiority.

BTL been unregulated.  I would prefer no BTL lending, and try to limit my savings away from BTL lenders.  

If your BTLers have tougher time making their returns, trying to farm tenants (BTLers creating the housing demand they pretend to service), then eat losses.  Don't want my tenant info on a database for LLs to check over, although I'm sure SourMash thinks differently..... he wants to ensure tenants can pay up to him to the max as I remember it.  Only the best tenants for SourMash, if/when he goes BTL.   The BTLers took the risks without any real credit-history source.   

 

On 31/07/2015 at 1:33 PM, bearishonhouses said:

You know, just because someone (Confusion of VIs) posts something other than 'HPC is happening next week' does not make them a troll or BTL'er. The attitude of overly-aggressively jumping on other commenters is what has already changed what were once valuable internet forums to desolate waste grounds. (e.g. many on Redditt - especially re SERIAL, Yahoo in general).

I find much discussion on this site civili and informed, but the comments which appear to be driven by resentment, jealousy, anger offer very little to the community.

 

On 22/02/2016 at 3:26 AM, bearishonhouses said:

I see repeatedly remarks along the lines suggesting that folks with mortgages (especially large ones) are 'renting from the bank. This practice comes across as if the writer has a big chip on their shoulder because they themselves do not have the burden of owning property are not owners, but think that property owners see themselves as 'superior- in some unknown way, to renters.

This belief is garbage.

While undoubtedly there are some 'owners' that consider themselves 'superior' to renters, those whose opinions you might care about, do not. (And there are probably a bunch of stupid men/women/chelsea supporters/accountants/teachers/Irish/conservatives/socialists that might fall into these categories too, but so what! Don't worry about such idiots.

The distinction between renters and owner occupiers - even those with big mortgages - is that the owner occupiers are responsible for the maintenance and upkeep of the property, and carry all the risk of the forthcoming decline in prices when they revert back to long-term sustainable levels. At that time, renters from landlords will not wish to be in the same boat as those whom many refer to as 'renters from the bank'.

 

On 22/02/2016 at 6:23 PM, Bland Unsight said:

Please don't hold back on the cod-psychoanalysis on my account. With your 85 posts in 90 months it is good to see that we have a subject which has captured your imagination, if not your attention. In my post (and naturally enough in your quote of it also) I specifically identify "mortgage prisoners with big interest-only liar loans that they'll never pay off" as renting from the bank.

In conflating that group with "folks with mortgages" you betray an inclination to leap before you look, though I wouldn't propose to offer any analysis of how your actions were informed by your circumstances or any psychological scars you carry.

The attitude of overly-aggressively jumping on other commenters is what has already changed what were once valuable internet forums to desolate waste grounds. (e.g. many on Reddit - especially re SERIAL, Yahoo in general). I find much discussion on this site civil and informed, but the comments which impugn others by asserting that they are driven by resentment, jealousy, anger offer very little to the community.*

Your interesting post continues. Having decided that my motivation is a chip on my shoulder you then explain to me that whilst some owner-occupiers consider themselves superior to me as a lowly renter, I shouldn't worry, (hence implying that I was worrying). And then finally, just in case there was any doubt regarding how disturbed, thick and ignorant you are willing to suppose that I am, you explain to me the difference between renting and owning. Thanks - I really appreciate that. Very constructive. You should post more.

 

On 22/02/2016 at 7:29 PM, bearishonhouses said:

I was not impugning your motivation, but suggesting how your tone and text might be interpreted by others - especially those less sympathetic to your cause. I do not think it helps the arguments of those who generally have sympathy with the views of most on this site.

 

As you correctly point out, I do not spend as much time on this forum as many others. However, I am happy to let other readers judge whether anyone in this particular dialogue is demonstrating "an attitude of overly-aggressively jumping on other commenters." That is something I try not to do.

 

It's what you are expert at imo.

Worry about your own superior bossy text-and-tone, in your constant put-downs to people who push back against your 'superior' viewpoints (including the view you don't want challenged about BTLers who should be able to have credit history of tenants, so that lenders can be protected... nahhh landlords have to do take risks in selecting tenants.)

 

On 22/02/2016 at 8:28 PM, Bland Unsight said:

Look, you made an asinine post where you mixed up the group that is in common parlance mortgage prisoners (high-LTV interest-only liar loan, no repayment plan) with a group you identify as "folks with mortgages". When you get fairly politely called out on it, you don't wear it, you just double down on your completely spurious assertion that there is an issue with my "tone and text", (as if the tone exists separate to the text - are you reading my post out loud to yourself in an angry, bitter voice? FFS).

Thus you are trolling. You're adding nothing to the discussion at hand and repeatedly posting derogatory assertions about another poster's contributions, hence your posting is likely to be disruptive. This is the definition of trolling - disruptive posting.

Yeah, but you've only made seven posts since 31 July 2015 and three of them have been telling other people how to post.

 

Perhaps if your plan is to police the rest of us for "text and tone" you ought to start reading our posts and responding to their actual contents, and when you don't do that and get called out, maybe your go to tactic should be humility not pompous umbrage.

 

Do you actually have any thoughts on the English Housing Survey or is your focus purely keeping the rest of us in line and helping "the arguments of those who generally have sympathy with the views of most on this site"? (All the talk of a cause is frightening me a bit too BTW.)

The thing that actually puzzles me is this; I do spend quite a lot of time reading and posting on this forum (not as much as I'd like, I'm thinking about getting into BTL to free up more time for posting rabid hatred of all things BTL) and not only do I feel absolutely no rancour towards owner-occupiers, mortgaged or otherwise, but I don't think that there is much rancour towards them on the boards at all and I know full well that many of the posters that I esteem either own outright or are mortgaged owner-occupiers. Hence your analysis is a million miles off. Their is no jealousy or anger directed at mortgaged owner-occupiers in the text and none in the sub-text. It exists in your imagination and only in your imagination and thus what requires explanation is why you see rancour where there is none.

Now, let me show you how this works. I could clutch at some straws and say that you came back from the US in 2008 and paid some ridiculous boom price for a house, financing with a dirty great interest-only mortgage which you are massively bitter about and hence you misread my post and tip into me because you feel that you've been stitched up by the situation every bit as much as some bitter renter. That could be exactly right or completely wrong. However you respond will not resolve the matter because on the internet as an 86 post count mystery man you can say what you want but it doesn't make it true. However, such speculation does not advance the argument on the thread and runs the risk of irritating you, hence it would be (or rather is ) trolling, thus what is best is to leave the question of people's motivations and the presence or absence of chips on their shoulders alone. It is bad board etiquette. Argue the facts, let the moderators hold the line on issues of "text and tone", report any posting that crosses the line as you perceive it.

 

On 02/08/2015 at 9:30 AM, Bland Unsight said:

...I posted for a long time before I started to make what I'd call normative posting, e.g. "comments which appear to be driven by resentment, jealousy, anger offer very little to the community", but the real give away for me was not that part, which Venger already picked up but this; "just because someone (Confusion of VIs) posts something other than 'HPC is happening next week' does not make them a troll or BTL'er"

Hence already troubled by the normative tone from a low post count newbie, I'm then further troubled by the subject matter of the normative posting; as far as I can see nobody calls Confusion a troll, so why on Earth is this low-post count newbie seeking to lecture the other posters on the thread on that issue? 

There is a subtle line of argument here too:

bearishonhouses is implicitly making a claim. Not satisfied with characterising the posting on the thread aggressive, an assertion that I feel is unwarranted, he doubles down with over-aggressive. Find me the aggression he's found.

Hence, in my book, it is bellowing "Troll!" at the top of its lungs.

The context seals the deal. Some zero post count joker tipping up onto a thread called How Osborne Could Kill Btl and trying to set the tone of how anyone posting prejudice should be allowed to comment without those comments being challenged. 

 

On 03/08/2015 at 9:10 AM, Venger said:

I want to move on, and let time, maturity, good-will and common purpose heal misunderstandings - but just want to suggest there are FOUR large troll spikes in bearishonhouses post. (2008 member, 80 posts).

1.  so bearishonhouses overplayed his hand...

2. 'Overly aggressive jumping on' accusation... very colourful, and the aggression being where exactly?

3. He projects himself a time-served authority/master on other forums/internet, (naming large popular forums in comparison) and also finds fault with all those other forums (for disagreeing with him perhaps?) - or perhaps it is where reasoned argument is allowed and encouraged vs reasonableness of tone, and closing down valuable discussion in the name of politeness.

4. The claim that our posts (with house prices as they are) are driven by resentment and jealousy.

It's all about "my-way-knows-more' and to close down discussion of others.  You're the aggressive one bearishonhouses, when people disagree with your point of view.... you don't like to be challenged.

Doesn't work with me (and many others) BearishonHouses.

[Si1]

My biggest concern is the data protection angle and conflict of interests. The difference between an ast and a loan is a secondary issue that leads to the above conflict, granted. I can't see any civil servant or parliamentary committee not throwing it straight in the bin.

[Dorkins]

11 hours ago, bearishonhouses said:

Having said that, I totally agree that unless such a reporting system could be set up in a way that prevents landlords to falsely report tenants' actions, the downsides do not outweigh the upsides.

Yes. I don't trust landlords one bit. From first hand experience landlords are not the professional group driven by high standards the RLA likes to portray them as. Many landlords think laws don't really apply to them, enjoy having power/status over their tenants and will do anything to avoid meeting their commitments with respect to repairs.

I am forced to rent from private landlords because it's either that or my family live on the street, but I would like to contain their influence on my life as far as possible. I certainly don't want them anywhere near my credit record, not least because I am not a borrower and they are not a lender.

[Si1]

7 minutes ago, Dorkins said:

 and they are not a lender.

True enough. If they really want to become regulated lenders with the associated costs, funding, risk management, book keeping, regulations etc then they'd pretty quickly find landlording became financially unsustainable.

[Dorkins]

9 minutes ago, Si1 said:

True enough. If they really want to become regulated lenders with the associated costs, funding, risk management, book keeping, regulations etc then they'd pretty quickly find landlording became financially unsustainable.

Quite. They want the power and status that comes with being a real lender without the statutory obligations and regulatory oversight.

[Venger]

13 hours ago, bearishonhouses said:

I do not know where you get your definition of 'credit history', it seems somewhat narrow to me. A more useful definition would recognize that a credit rating reflects the individual's past history of making good on their commitments and is an estimate of the likelihood that they will continue to do so in the future.   Certainly, from an economic perspective, signing a lease commits the lessee to make certain payments. I would hope that when the bank lends out the money that I have lent to them, they will make a reasonable attempt to assess the likelihood that they will be repaid, and hence I will be repaid. Looking at an individual's history on keeping up with all commitments is relevant.

The availability of credit ratings allows lenders to distinguish between  high and low credit risks so that credit worthy borrowers do not subsidize less credit worthy borrowers. (You realize that if the banks cannot distinguish between the two, they banks are going to ensure they get their money back by charging an appropriately high interest rate to the 'average' borrower, right?) 

Having said that, I totally agree that unless such a reporting system could be set up in a way that prevents landlords to falsely report tenants' actions, the downsides do not outweigh the upsides.

 

BTLers need to do their own process.  

If bank takes losses (because of a tenant not paying their landlord), it's up to the landlord to make sure bank gets repayment (out of their own savings if need be), and bank has assets to chase on the landlord, and maybe more likely HPC.   Including claim on the BTLers' own home.

I mean look at Busta when he tells how he does it.

We could be lucky enough to be one of his long-term tenants in the future.

As I recall it, he used to visit prospective tenants in their current rental to have a look around, as part of due-dilligence to decide whether they were worthy of renting from him.  (Power)

A person with claims on multiple homes... starting back when some here were at school... buying up all the houses.

On 22/04/2015 at 11:15 AM, Mark Alexander said:

Running a landlords forum I get to hear thousands of stories about scum of the earth tenants and very little about scum landlords. Having said that, we do have tenants posting occasionally and they are generally well treated because good landlords want to rid off and expose bad landlords as much as their tenants do. Have a look around Property118 and you will find quite a few examples of landlords advising tenants how to screw over their bad landlord.

When I venture into forums such as HPC I expect to find just the opposite, i,e. a lot more tales of woe from tenants and landlord bashing. I learn from this in many ways, i.e. how people think and communicate, signs to look out for that credit checks would not show up, questions to ask etc. I'm not hear because I enjoy the insults, I am here for many reasons. Those of you who are renting may well want to live in one of my properties one day. The more I can learn about the mindset of a tenant, the more likely I am to be able to cherry pick the best of the bunch. Maybe some of your members who do rent could also learn how to find the best landlords by communicating in the way that I do. Those who enjoy hating us will probably continue to experience issues to fuel that hatred. We all have choices.

Having said all of that, I think I've learned enough from being here for now. I may pop back some time.

Thanks and goodbye for now

As for your view of aggression (to your own view that landlords should have access to all the info on tenants)....

It's your aggression.  Pushing back against your failure to understand wider issues (of believing your view is absolute wisdom), is allowed.

Not going to simply accept your view as right.  It's there to be challenged.  If you don't like it, then tough.  

Your life perspective and worldview in your Malibu forum-land is there to be challenged.

*Bad language in video.

On 04/08/2015 at 1:25 AM, Bland Unsight said:

Still waiting for any of the three posters, earlier so keen to tell everyone how the board should be, to step out of the limelight of the main board and work the trenches arguing for something them believed in, marshalling reason and evidence and not honouring ignorant prejudice for the sake of a nice "beach community".

Thankfully, I have not also been holding my breath.

 

 

On 22/04/2015 at 11:40 AM, Mark Alexander said:

Parting thoughts .....

This is a very simple list of what good landlords want from their tenants:-

1) rent on time

2) respect the neighbours

3) respect the property

4) mutual respect and cooperation between landlord and tenant

5) a long term relationship

Please accept that both landlords and tenants are a representation of society as a whole, there are good and bad people in all walks of society.

If you or people close to you want/need to rent a property, what will you do to ensure that you end up in a relationship that both landlord and tenant deserve?

If you focus on what you do want then in my experience you are far more likely to find it. In fact, I would go so far as to say that you are more likely to find what you focus on the most. My advice, therefore, is that you focus on what you really want a lot more than you focus on what you really don't want.

If you really do want a House Price Crash then by all means focus on that. Be careful what you wish for those. I accept that there will be further house price crashes in my lifetime, my focus on on surviving them. So far I have survived two.

Good luck!

Others want that too.  Full access credit-checks on renters to help ensure we comply so BTLers have easy life, with multiple home claims.