rantnrave Posted August 18, 2017 Author Share Posted August 18, 2017 29 minutes ago, katchytitle said: Don't feel bad. Thanks... Any advice out there for how a teetotaller can drown their sorrows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 1 hour ago, rantnrave said: Thanks... Any advice out there for how a teetotaller can drown their sorrows? Carbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Option5 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 1 hour ago, rantnrave said: Thanks... Any advice out there for how a teetotaller can drown their sorrows? TV box sets and ice cream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldbug9999 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 14 hours ago, rantnrave said: There was a bullet point about understanding importance of strategy and contributing to discussions about strategy. Thought I had that covered in the details I included in my application. A further thought is that the specialist who was in this role has now literally left the building. There is no-one else in that section who totally grasped the full scope of what she did and where it fits in. The interview panel for her replacement is therefore all HR people - ie, no-one with the specific background which I have and which was the main thrust of my application. On that basis, I might as well have written most of my application form in Swahili. Feeling very deflated about it all today. Glad its Friday. Well it sounds like you do so why not rebut your rejection pointing out at length why their assessment of you is wrong and, as above, how you uniquely appreciation what the job involves. Circulate your rebuttal to whoever the new role reports to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopGun Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 On 18/08/2017 at 0:17 AM, Millaise said: It could be that they want a hatchet man. He will come, do the deed, be despised, then leave. They are saving you from this. You can't change the mindset of an organisation without changing the staff. Read bean experiment. its nearly always the process/management that needs to change, not the staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millaise Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 On 8/18/2017 at 10:11 AM, katchytitle said: Now they just want total obedience and consistency. They need you to have debt/a mortgage / a family and they actively want you to learn no more than what your role needs.They'll pretend to upskill you, but only in a mediocre way to keep you happy, essentially some sort of course that takes your mind of things for a while. The polemic you wrote seems so true to me. Often, it is just me kicking against the corporate goads, and everyone else seems oblivious to it. Willy Russell wrote: An' most of us die....long before we're dead. An' what kills us is the terrible weight of all this unused life that we carry around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 On 8/17/2017 at 1:46 PM, Habeas Domus said: In many places the only way to get promoted is to leave, work somewhere else for a while and then apply to come back. It is possible to jump 2 salary grades in a couple of years that way, something that would never happen with an internal promotion. You get zero reward for loyalty these days. ...Or if you can ask for six months unpaid leave......then they will realise what they have missed and recognise you accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moneyfornothing Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 On 8/18/2017 at 10:41 AM, rantnrave said: Thanks... Any advice out there for how a teetotaller can drown their sorrows? I would say .. dont give up yet .. The HR bods are sheilding you from the vacancy holder.. dont take no for an answer .. make an educated guess / find through your network who the person is that this role has to report to .. you have more advantages than someone coming in externally .. ask for some time from the vacancy holder (dont be put off by having to go higher up the chain than you would need to in your current role ) and discuss informally and share with them what extra you could bring to the role that an external candidate wouldnt be able to and how soon you can be productive in that role unlike an external candidate. You will be surprised how the vacancy holder has probably not even been informed of your candidature. All the best .. and its not too late, I have seen any number of external candidates beaten by last minute internal candidates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantnrave Posted August 22, 2017 Author Share Posted August 22, 2017 Role reports directly to the new CEO, whose start has been delayed towards November. I think HR are rushing through the process of filling this role to have someone in place for when the new CEO begins. Tomorrow I have a 360 degree feedback appraisal with a different member of leadership. It's a once-a-year thing I usually regard as a box-ticking exercise. She is quite senior though and totally gets what I do, so I may sound her out about what's happened. Can't hurt... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 On 17/08/2017 at 1:06 PM, goldbug9999 said: Yeah take this advice if you want to be one of lifes also rans, forever being pushed around and passed over. If youve got a pair OTOH ... A strange attitude. You can like your job and just want to stay there without being an "also ran" or being pushed over. I find this "must always push my way upwards!" attitude rather weird to be honest - it mostly seems to be people doing it from some vague idea that that's what you should do because that's being succesful and you're supposed to want to be succesful. All rather circular and pointless. I've annoyed my boss in the past by asking him "Why would I want to?" when he's done the push you career ahead talk nonsense, since as far as I can see it doesn't actually offer anything - I've no particular desire for more money, and it just looks like having to do more planning and organising and so on and less interesting work. But I really don't think that makes me an also-ran or being passed over, just not the sort of fool who doesn't know what he actually wants. There may be some people out there who are working towards a job they'd actually get more satisfaction from, but I'd be surprised if they're not in the minority of those trying to push their way upwards. Let others have the stress and busy-ness and rushing around that seems to go with that territory, I personally think they're crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen_out Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 You did talk to your own line manager, recruiting manager and other stakeholders before you put in your application, didn't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snafu Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 2 hours ago, frozen_out said: You did talk to your own line manager, recruiting manager and other stakeholder's before you put in your application, didn't you? The Corporate is strong in you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Option5 Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 4 hours ago, Riedquat said: A strange attitude. You can like your job and just want to stay there without being an "also ran" or being pushed over. I find this "must always push my way upwards!" attitude rather weird to be honest - it mostly seems to be people doing it from some vague idea that that's what you should do because that's being succesful and you're supposed to want to be succesful. All rather circular and pointless. I've annoyed my boss in the past by asking him "Why would I want to?" when he's done the push you career ahead talk nonsense, since as far as I can see it doesn't actually offer anything - I've no particular desire for more money, and it just looks like having to do more planning and organising and so on and less interesting work. But I really don't think that makes me an also-ran or being passed over, just not the sort of fool who doesn't know what he actually wants. There may be some people out there who are working towards a job they'd actually get more satisfaction from, but I'd be surprised if they're not in the minority of those trying to push their way upwards. Let others have the stress and busy-ness and rushing around that seems to go with that territory, I personally think they're crazy. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantnrave Posted August 22, 2017 Author Share Posted August 22, 2017 2 hours ago, frozen_out said: You did talk to your own line manager, recruiting manager and other stakeholder's before you put in your application, didn't you? Line Manager currently signed off sick with stress for three months. HR director retired at the end of July, new one starts beginning of Sep. Main stakeholder in this office is a freelancer who took August off to travel round Europe with her family. There really wasn't anyone to tell. Was going to talk to our temporary dept head if I got an interview - obviously not necessary now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen_out Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 26 minutes ago, rantnrave said: Line Manager currently signed off sick with stress for three months. HR director retired at the end of July, new one starts beginning of Sep. Main stakeholder in this office is a freelancer who took August off to travel round Europe with her family. There really wasn't anyone to tell. Was going to talk to our temporary dept head if I got an interview - obviously not necessary now... So, with the answer being 'No', unfortunately that's why you failed to get an interview. You don't have the right relationship with the people responsible for making the decision. Not a reflection of your skill or capability just a lack of the right ears in the right places. The interesting thing is you sound quite senior anyway, and your organisation sounds fairly big, so I'm at a bit of a loss as to why you didn't know this anyway as you must have had some kind of promotion at some point if your next step would be reporting to the CEO. I guess that's a more obvious question I didn't ask - in your OP you said it was a colleague that had resigned, but the new role sounds like a promotion as it reports to the CEO. Is the new role at the same level as you are now, one step higher, two steps higher or more? 57 minutes ago, Snafu said: The Corporate is strong in you Yes it is :). I know it's frowned upon around these parts, but a lot of people simply don't understand corporate life. In the same way as I don't understand other stuff. I can't claim to be a particularly successful operator in the corporate environment or I'd be more senior and much richer than I am, but I do understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 3 hours ago, frozen_out said: You did talk to your own line manager, recruiting manager and other stakeholders before you put in your application, didn't you? You mean 'reach out', surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen_out Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 21 minutes ago, Errol said: You mean 'reach out', surely? Eeeugh. I'm not usually squeamish at corporate speak, but that one turns my stomach. Along with 'tic-tac'. As in 'tic-tac with HR to see if they think you're a viable candidate' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonguest Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 On 17/08/2017 at 9:13 AM, Option5 said: I'd stay put and see who they get. Remember it isn't the new persons fault so please don't take it out on them. Unless of course they have bullsh*tted their way into the job with a CV that is less than honest and factually correct! Lost count of how many times I have seen that happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldbug9999 Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 5 hours ago, Riedquat said: A strange attitude. You can like your job and just want to stay there without being an "also ran" or being pushed over. I find this "must always push my way upwards!" attitude rather weird to be honest - it mostly seems to be people doing it from some vague idea that that's what you should do because that's being succesful and you're supposed to want to be succesful. All rather circular and pointless. I've annoyed my boss in the past by asking him "Why would I want to?" when he's done the push you career ahead talk nonsense, since as far as I can see it doesn't actually offer anything - I've no particular desire for more money, and it just looks like having to do more planning and organising and so on and less interesting work. But I really don't think that makes me an also-ran or being passed over, just not the sort of fool who doesn't know what he actually wants. There may be some people out there who are working towards a job they'd actually get more satisfaction from, but I'd be surprised if they're not in the minority of those trying to push their way upwards. Let others have the stress and busy-ness and rushing around that seems to go with that territory, I personally think they're crazy. The tone of the post I was responding to was "dont rock the boat if you dont want to get fired" rather than merely about staying where you are and being content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doesn't Commute Anymore Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 3 hours ago, rantnrave said: Line Manager currently signed off sick with stress for three months. HR director retired at the end of July, new one starts beginning of Sep. Main stakeholder in this office is a freelancer who took August off to travel round Europe with her family. There really wasn't anyone to tell. Was going to talk to our temporary dept head if I got an interview - obviously not necessary now... rantnrave I love your contribution to the forum, but it sounds like your workplace is clichy and your "allies" have all somewhat fallen leaving 'the other side' to dominate the agenda and pull the strings. They probably had one of their people lined up for this job long before you even saw the vacancy. With their person in the job, their position then strengthens..... I have been shocked at how clichy UK workplaces can be, even when the obvious person is needed to make the job work, and even when the incorrect appointment leads to serious consequences (i.e. unsafe practice around patient care, project failure). This is both public and semi-private sector. You come across as talented and playing the game fair in the hope that your achievements speak for themselves, but there are a large number of less talented people in the world who will try and form alliances and empires to benefit them over the worthy. Time to speak to rival employers and look for pastures green. You might be in a toxic environment in which case there is no point working hard to achieve things. A change is as good as a rest and can lead to new avenues (although it does carry a risk that things don't work out). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantnrave Posted August 23, 2017 Author Share Posted August 23, 2017 Thanks for all the feedback folks Some more background - I have used the system to my advantage before, when I got transferred against my wishes to a different section with an awkward boss. Another team was asking if I could continue doing some projects for them, and I point blank refused saying I had a new line manager, new priorities etc... Said half tongue-in-cheek that if they wanted me to be involved in their work, they would need to create a new role that came with a higher salary that would make it worthwhile me applying. Three months later that plan had worked handsomely. The role I've just applied for came very much out of the blue. Far less time to plan, schmooze etc. It has been rushed through and it is pure coincidence that I am here all of August and could apply. With regard to moving on - 90% of jobs I could apply for are within the M25 and I don't need to tell HPCers about the cost of living close to work! I have no desire to commute and most of a salary uplift would go in tax and an annual rail pass. My hourly rate, taking the time and cost of commuting would actually go down. Presently I'm in a good company, reasonable town, short working week. Have a little 'un in a decent local school now too. I have also moved around workwise to extreme degrees before - literally to the ends of the earth. Socially wise, we're tired of being the new people in town, having to make new friends (which we find gets harder with each move). So, although this experience has been cr&p, I'm not keen on upping sticks yet again. Hope that answers some of the questions / posts / comments above. RnR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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