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reddog

German government and car makers decide they have the right to update the software in your car

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On the surface not a massively interesting story 'Goverment and Car companies agree to update software in cars to make them more environmentally friendly'

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40800587

But think about it, by reducing the gases you must be tuning down the performance and efficiency.  So your car is no longer the same as what you decided to buy.  At the bare minimum, surely the drivers should get compo or the right to return their car.

 

But as this seems to have cosely been agreed, could this start happening more regularly with governments assuming the right to change our devices "for the greater benefit"

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I've been feeling particularly smug this year, having sold a 4.2 ltr Landcruiser diesel and bought a hybrid RAV4. I'd be outraged if govt tinkered with the car's software. It's MY car, not theirs. ?

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It doesn't have to be a performance hit though: I thought the approach used by VW to get around this was to simply overdrive the emissions control hardware, which in the case of diesels meant significantly lower EGR valve life.

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26 minutes ago, LandOfConfusion said:

It doesn't have to be a performance hit though: I thought the approach used by VW to get around this was to simply overdrive the emissions control hardware, which in the case of diesels meant significantly lower EGR valve life.

Agreed, but the point is something has to give whether it is performance or wear and tear.

 

The article is written is such a way as to suggest the car makers are doing you a favour by giving the software update for "free", it doesn't point out this could actually cost you money!

 

 

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57 minutes ago, reddog said:

Agreed, but the point is something has to give whether it is performance or wear and tear.

 

The article is written is such a way as to suggest the car makers are doing you a favour by giving the software update for "free", it doesn't point out this could actually cost you money!

 

 

Diy service time.

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VW/SEAT are desperate to do the emission "fix" on my car. I've told them to go away but they keep sending official looking recall letters, each one eliciting a short sharp phone call from me. I don't trust them, so my car doesn't go near a main dealer, all servicing is now done by independents for less than half the price of a VW/SEAT dealer.

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FFS it's just a remap.  

Diesel power is a balance between EGR (lowers the combustion temperature, less NOx), boost (amount you can cram in the cylinder) and fuelling (how much soot you are willing to tolerate in the quest for power).

The VW "cheat" is a mild remap.   EGR is pretty much disabled, which is why VW diesels have appeared to be soooo reliable.  Boost up a bit, fuelling normal.   Loads of power, good economy.  When the "fix", they're just setting the parameters to the sort of level that everyone else started with.   You can always remap it again.

Simple example - I bought an Alfa 156 JTD as a project car - 380 quid.    It has proved alarmingly reliable, but with a 2.4 only delivers 140 HP.    A replacement ECU has seen 190 HP.  No smoke, but no EGR and loads of boost.    With water/methanol injection and an intercooler the size of a barn door, it will get to 220HP.    Beyond that it is all injectors and turbos, so gets expensive.  

If that Alfa had been a VW, it would have left the factory with about 170 HP and everyone would be smugly praising the smoothness of  the wunderbar German diesel tech.

 

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23 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

VW/SEAT are desperate to do the emission "fix" on my car. I've told them to go away but they keep sending official looking recall letters, each one eliciting a short sharp phone call from me. I don't trust them, so my car doesn't go near a main dealer, all servicing is now done by independents for less than half the price of a VW/SEAT dealer.

who does yours got a seat that needs doing soon 

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Youview updated my bt youview box. The new software was so bad I brought second hand one of eBay. The new second hand box will never be plugged in to the net so they cant break it

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5 minutes ago, rxe said:

FFS it's just a remap.  

Diesel power is a balance between EGR (lowers the combustion temperature, less NOx), boost (amount you can cram in the cylinder) and fuelling (how much soot you are willing to tolerate in the quest for power).

The VW "cheat" is a mild remap.   EGR is pretty much disabled, which is why VW diesels have appeared to be soooo reliable.  Boost up a bit, fuelling normal.   Loads of power, good economy.  When the "fix", they're just setting the parameters to the sort of level that everyone else started with.   You can always remap it again.

Simple example - I bought an Alfa 156 JTD as a project car - 380 quid.    It has proved alarmingly reliable, but with a 2.4 only delivers 140 HP.    A replacement ECU has seen 190 HP.  No smoke, but no EGR and loads of boost.    With water/methanol injection and an intercooler the size of a barn door, it will get to 220HP.    Beyond that it is all injectors and turbos, so gets expensive.  

If that Alfa had been a VW, it would have left the factory with about 170 HP and everyone would be smugly praising the smoothness of  the wunderbar German diesel tech.

 

Just a remap, eh!

Feel free to have yours done but, knowing how cars can suffer from annoying hesitation and flat spots, I'll pass! 

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I wouldn't have it done in a million years, but if they get silly with legislation, then just get it done, and get the car mapped back to where it was for a few quid.   A friend of mine is making good money reversing these "fixes".

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2 hours ago, rxe said:

I wouldn't have it done in a million years, but if they get silly with legislation, then just get it done, and get the car mapped back to where it was for a few quid.   A friend of mine is making good money reversing these "fixes".

But then you need to tell your insurance company who will probably up the premium.

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7 hours ago, rxe said:

FFS it's just a remap.  

Diesel power is a balance between EGR (lowers the combustion temperature, less NOx), boost (amount you can cram in the cylinder) and fuelling (how much soot you are willing to tolerate in the quest for power).

The VW "cheat" is a mild remap.   EGR is pretty much disabled, which is why VW diesels have appeared to be soooo reliable.  Boost up a bit, fuelling normal.   Loads of power, good economy.  When the "fix", they're just setting the parameters to the sort of level that everyone else started with.   You can always remap it again.

Simple example - I bought an Alfa 156 JTD as a project car - 380 quid.    It has proved alarmingly reliable, but with a 2.4 only delivers 140 HP.    A replacement ECU has seen 190 HP.  No smoke, but no EGR and loads of boost.    With water/methanol injection and an intercooler the size of a barn door, it will get to 220HP.    Beyond that it is all injectors and turbos, so gets expensive.  

If that Alfa had been a VW, it would have left the factory with about 170 HP and everyone would be smugly praising the smoothness of  the wunderbar German diesel tech.

 

Yes but have you considered that people bought on premise that it was going to be reliable, and may have made another purchase if they had known there reliability was going to be limited?

 

Although this is about cars, as software becomes more and more of the product, this could lead situations other devices, with question is does the government have the right to get into your device and change it?

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12 hours ago, reddog said:

Although this is about cars, as software becomes more and more of the product, this could lead situations other devices, with question is does the government have the right to get into your device and change it?

Is it morally / ethically / socially correct? No.

Can the government make it legal? Of course.

Will the ignorant masses accept yet more useless & harmful government intervention? Well they've accepted almost complete inaction on knife crime, quadcopter 'crime', caustic substance attacks, burglary etc, but have willingly accepted totally-ineffective, civil-liberty clamping restrictions on car battery acid, toy planes, prop swords...

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There was a recent article about vehicle leasing companies who surreptitiously install a kill switch in lease cars in case you stop making the payments. Sometimes the vehicle lease is paid off or it's sold on to someone else and it's not always removed. That's insidious. Boiled frogs..

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cardsloans/article-4677690/Crackdown-car-finance-firms-using-kill-switches.html

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VW to End Support for CarWindows XP in Q2, 2032

After 12 years, support for CarWindows XP will end in Q2, 2032. There will be no more security updates or technical support for the CarWindows XP operating system. It is very important that customers and partners migrate to a modern operating system such as CarWindows 10. Customers moving to a modern operating system will benefit from dramatically enhanced security, broad device choice for a mobile workforce, higher user productivity and a lower total cost of ownership through improved management capabilities.

What does this mean?

It means you should take action. After q2, 2032, VW will no longer provide security updates or technical support for CarWindows XP. Security updates patch vulnerabilities that may be exploited by malware and help keep users and their data safer. Cars running CarWindows XP after Q2 2032, should not be considered to be protected, and it is important that you migrate to a current supported operating system – such as CarWindows 10 – so you can receive regular security updates to protect your car from malicious attacks, which could cause your car to crash (by which we mean CRASH! not crash) or be remotely controlled as a weapon of terror. You must inform your insurer should you wish to continue driving after support is ended. It is unlikely in this event your insurer will agree to provide cover.

Cars will need a quad core processor in order to run modern operating systems such as CarWindows 10. You can upgrade your car's processor for slightly less than the price of a new car.

Lastly, for the avoidance of doubt, VW drivers should understand that the car they drive is no more their property than the air they breathe. By contrast, any attempt by a driver to retain ownership of their wages, rather than honour the agreement made made in the PCP, will result in immediate repossession of the vehicle. In short, we own your ****.

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