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  Interns beware: working for free could put a dent in your career

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  Interns beware: working for free could put a dent in your career

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/jul/29/internships-can-damage-career-prospects

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..Now a major study, the first of its kind, explodes many of the myths surrounding internships. Rather than giving students a leg-up, internships should carry a health warning, it suggests. The study, Access to and Returns from Unpaid Graduate Internships, finds that most graduates would be substantially better off by not doing an internship.

“Almost everyone taking an unpaid internship can expect to do worse three years later than had they not: former interns face a salary penalty of approximately £3,500 … compared with those who went straight into paid work, and £1,500 compared with those who went into further study,” it concludes

The study also found that former interns faced significant penalties in finding permanent jobs compared with those who went straight into paid work. They also struggled when it came to obtaining a professional position or high career satisfaction compared with those who went into further study before entering employment...

 

Edited by Saving For a Space Ship

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proper slave system in action this one

"work for free for a bit, it'll show you're a good worker then someone will DEFINITELY employ you!"

"I'm a gonna be RICH (in three years when I start getting paid)"

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35 minutes ago, thewig said:

proper slave system in action this one

"work for free for a bit, it'll show you're a good worker then someone will DEFINITELY employ you!"

"I'm a gonna be RICH (in three years when I start getting paid)"

Also the same with apprenticeships .

They just create a lower cost point for employers and misaligned wage perception for employees. Employers will then try and hang into these low wage employees rather than pay the market rate.

I once remember in my second job one of the managers saying if you were earning your age in thousands you were doing well - it was of course total bollicks. I soon found a job paying £54k basic at the age of 26, and that was 17 years ago.

People need to stop being too loyal, it's too expensive. Plus most apprenticeship schemesare just a scam for colleges and employers to get funding/cheap labour. It's a totally rubbish policy.

 

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My company pays the interns, £200 per week plus travel and lunch money. Most don't do anything to justify the pay. Those that get a job offer get a generous one.

It depends on the industry and the company.

 

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3 hours ago, Peter Hun said:

My company pays the interns, £200 per week plus travel and lunch money. Most don't do anything to justify the pay. Those that get a job offer get a generous one.

It depends on the industry and the company.

 

Same here.

We try and get a couple of undergrads/18+ in during the summer. Not expecting anything from them - we do get the odd surprise, as there are still a few smart kids around, despute what the papers say.

Weve always got a few small  projects to do. It gives someone experience of managing them, and gives the kid some work experience to put on their CV.

We pay 200/w. Id strongky object to getting people in for gatis. Everyone i work with thinks unoaid interns stinks.

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51 minutes ago, VeryMeanReversion said:

 

I've employed a few interns.

1 was very good, is now working for me. Pay top salary for them

2 were OK, I helped them get jobs elsewhere.

1 was useless, asked to leave early.

Thats roughtly the same for recruiting people at any age.

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13 hours ago, LittlePig said:

Causation vs association... Do you get an internship because you were not able to get into the straight to work cohort?

Exactly what I thought. Hardly surprising that those that had got paying jobs straight away were doing better several years down the line. The article also observes that interns often target quite low paying but desirable jobs. 

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4 hours ago, spyguy said:

Same here.

We try and get a couple of undergrads/18+ in during the summer. Not expecting anything from them - we do get the odd surprise, as there are still a few smart kids around, despute what the papers say.

Weve always got a few small  projects to do. It gives someone experience of managing them, and gives the kid some work experience to put on their CV.

We pay 200/w. Id strongky object to getting people in for gatis. Everyone i work with thinks unoaid interns stinks.

We pay the same.  We also run a proper application/interview process for the roles so that it's not a "whose dad is the best connected" process.

Our more junior professional staff do the interviewing and manage the projects - so they get some valuable experience as well.

Edited by Exiled Canadian

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I don't know about this. If the pedigree is for certain industry graduates to 'intern' for free, surely there is an inflexion point in terms of the sheer numbers doing it which has influence on future earnings and opportunities?

And let's not ignore the impact of class... the 'old boys club'.

Possible it's symptomatic of the breakdown of contemporary British society?

 

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18 hours ago, thewig said:

proper slave system in action this one

"work for free for a bit, it'll show you're a good worker then someone will DEFINITELY employ you!"

"I'm a gonna be RICH (in three years when I start getting paid)"

 

It's a fair bet that most 'interns' have wealthy parents who can support them.  Realistically, no-one else is going to be able to afford to work a full-time job for no salary.

When the economy is tough, it's very helpful for a new graduate to have some work experience.  I was lucky enough to be able to do a year of paid work experience in year 3 of my degree which was pretty handy to be able to put on the CV when I was looking for jobs, post-graduation.  It wasn't paid at full salary rate but was enough to live on.

 

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5 minutes ago, Sour Mash said:

 

It's a fair bet that most 'interns' have wealthy parents who can support them.  Realistically, no-one else is going to be able to afford to work a full-time job for no salary.

When the economy is tough, it's very helpful for a new graduate to have some work experience.  I was lucky enough to be able to do a year of paid work experience in year 3 of my degree which was pretty handy to be able to put on the CV when I was looking for jobs, post-graduation.  It wasn't paid at full salary rate but was enough to live on.

 

This....foot in the door....I/we/will find the cash to pay you if you will employ me......pleaseeee.;)

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17 hours ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

People need to stop being too loyal, it's too expensive. Plus most apprenticeship schemesare just a scam for colleges and employers to get funding/cheap labour. It's a totally rubbish policy.

My employer (5 years of loyalty ;) ) a month or two ago, were advertising for an apprenticeship 'Data Entry' position!! £131 a week. Since when did data entry roles require specialist training?? FFS. :rolleyes:

Having said that, i almost decided to leave school at age 16 in 1994 with a view to doing a YTS scheme job for a dizzying £29.50 a week.

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Surely those industries that have more people wanting to work in them will be more likely to use internships and that same competition would hold genuine wages down.

More importantly, I understand there is no opt out of minimum wage legislation so nobody should be employing anyone for free....and surely would risk a claim for backdated wages if they did.

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1 hour ago, MattW said:

My employer (5 years of loyalty ;) ) a month or two ago, were advertising for an apprenticeship 'Data Entry' position!! £131 a week. Since when did data entry roles require specialist training?? FFS. :rolleyes:

Having said that, i almost decided to leave school at age 16 in 1994 with a view to doing a YTS scheme job for a dizzying £29.50 a week.

£131 a week! Surely that's below the minimum wage?   

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2 hours ago, MattW said:

My employer (5 years of loyalty ;) ) a month or two ago, were advertising for an apprenticeship 'Data Entry' position!! £131 a week. Since when did data entry roles require specialist training?? FFS. :rolleyes:

Having said that, i almost decided to leave school at age 16 in 1994 with a view to doing a YTS scheme job for a dizzying £29.50 a week.

Totally criminal YTS.

I did a temp postal round before my A-Levels, and University (on and off between 1989-91) and got paid £120 per week back then.

I then got an engineering sponsorship (1992) with a £5k per year bursary an £167 per week whilst working during the summer - basically an undergraduate training scheme.

Just shows that apprenticeships are a rip off and generally a cynical waste of time designed to keep unemployment artificially low.

 

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17 hours ago, Ah-so said:

Exactly what I thought. Hardly surprising that those that had got paying jobs straight away were doing better several years down the line. The article also observes that interns often target quite low paying but desirable jobs. 

I didnt even realise that post graduation internships were a thing, especially non-paid ones. My intership was during the course and paid.

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On 30/07/2017 at 6:12 AM, Peter Hun said:

My company pays the interns, £200 per week plus travel and lunch money. Most don't do anything to justify the pay. Those that get a job offer get a generous one.

It depends on the industry and the company.

 

Do you run a pole dancing club per chance ?

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45 minutes ago, goldbug9999 said:

I didnt even realise that post graduation internships modern day slaves were a thing, especially non-paid ones.

There's worse than that happening.

People are happily signing up to pay their slave master a % of their salary for 35 years and another % to a government that legalizes them in the first place.

Welcome to Modern Britain.

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Important to distinguish between paid and unpaid internships here.

In the accounting industry, we use a lot of paid interns as a cheap resource in uni holidays. For us we get a (usually) enthusiastic and motivated couple of people who won't blow the budget doing admin tasks. In return, they get some experience in their desired field, some money and, provided they can step up to take on something a bit more complicated and not ****** it up over their 7/8 weeks, they can usually more or less circumvent the tedious graduate job assessment centre process when they finish uni. 

All in all, not a bad system. Easy to see how indicating a willingness (and ability to, let's not forget; same people who can't afford to also will probably be less willing to accept a lower salary) to work for free makes it easier for an employer to take advantage though. 

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1 hour ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

Do you run a pole dancing club per chance ?

Why, looking for work?

Its financial company, we are just about to sack 50% so I wouldn't recommend it.

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17 hours ago, MattW said:

My employer (5 years of loyalty ;) ) a month or two ago, were advertising for an apprenticeship 'Data Entry' position!! £131 a week. Since when did data entry roles require specialist training?? FFS. :rolleyes:

Having said that, i almost decided to leave school at age 16 in 1994 with a view to doing a YTS scheme job for a dizzying £29.50 a week.

I got only £31 less per week in 1989 - working for McDonalds!

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