Momentum's viral video attacking HPI

[Darby Ram]

This video by the Corbynite Momentum faction is getting a lot of attention on Twitter. Some of that attention is good and some of that attention is of the "how they dare these commies say this!" variety.

Regardless of what you think of Momentum/Corbyn, it's pretty interesting to see the "HPI is unearned capital gains" idea going mainstream. My impression is that it's pretty common currency amongst younger people but gets almost no airtime in the mainstream, hence the harrumphing from Tory MPs, Spectator columnists and the like. But, essentially, trying to ignore the elephant in the room is a losing strategy because demographics will eventually destroy you.

I'm eagerly awaiting the first MP brave enough to unambiguously say that they want a house price crash so that they, and their constituents, can afford a house. It will be a game-changer for politics. 

[Sawitcoming]

My conversations with younger people up until a year or so ago suggested that younger people beleived that the HPI gravy train would one day come their way and HTB etc was just a way to help them get along that route. I think they are beginning to sense something is wrong but don't really understand the factors that have led us to this state. 

I have supported Corbyn knowing that he is aware of the factors that have led to the current situation even if it is pointless to speak of them because people have all swallowed the supply and demand narrative. This kind of video should hit the spot. Get in!

[TheCountOfNowhere]

About time someone with a voice spouted our message

[NuBrit]

Not a momentum fan, but the video really has nailed it. Only criticism was they forgot to add a piece about the elderly pulling up the ladder on the young with the recent hikes in the pension age.

The Tories are like the sow that devours its young, they have nothing to give young people.

[Calcutta]

Any mention of HPI is good news, the video is grim though. Identity politics of the lowest order.

Now Corbyn has more power over his MPs and seems to be keeping them in line with regards Brexit I'm warming to him, this kind of BS is what puts people off.

[longgone]

13 minutes ago, NuBrit said:

Not a momentum fan, but the video really has nailed it. Only criticism was they forgot to add a piece about the elderly pulling up the ladder on the young with the recent hikes in the pension age.

The Tories are like the sow that devours its young, they have nothing to give young people.

about all they could offer is inheritance tax cuts so they inherit .

but that will only affect a few family`s. 

[adarmo]

6 minutes ago, NuBrit said:

Not a momentum fan, but the video really has nailed it. Only criticism was they forgot to add a piece about the elderly pulling up the ladder on the young with the recent hikes in the pension age.

The Tories are like the sow that devours its young, they have nothing to give young people.

Not sure I agree. They've banned tenancy fees, seem to have let house price increase tail off and are trying to reduce the debt that the young will inherit. In contrast to Labour, who introduced and then trebled tuition fees, allowed rampant house price growth on the back of opening the doors to Eastern Europe and the floods of skilled and unskilled labour. The unskilled labour bit is important because it works out now easier and cheaper to hire someone with experience rather than training someone in the UK. Then the country nearly went to the IMF in 2009 as the fallout of the GFC hit which was in a large part down to the crap regulation brought about by.... Labour. Then in the latest round of political BS they promise free university education to everyone. What they don't do is say how they'll find the £10bn/year that'll cost. After they lose the election they state it was only ever an ambition........

Also..... Dianne Abbot 

Tories are not perfect, nobody is, but blame where it's due. 

[PopGun]

16 minutes ago, adarmo said:

Not sure I agree. They've banned tenancy fees, seem to have let house price increase tail off and are trying to reduce the debt that the young will inherit. In contrast to Labour, who introduced and then trebled tuition fees, allowed rampant house price growth on the back of opening the doors to Eastern Europe and the floods of skilled and unskilled labour. The unskilled labour bit is important because it works out now easier and cheaper to hire someone with experience rather than training someone in the UK. Then the country nearly went to the IMF in 2009 as the fallout of the GFC hit which was in a large part down to the crap regulation brought about by.... Labour. Then in the latest round of political BS they promise free university education to everyone. What they don't do is say how they'll find the £10bn/year that'll cost. After they lose the election they state it was only ever an ambition........

Also..... Dianne Abbot 

Tories are not perfect, nobody is, but blame where it's due. 

Stopped reading after the trying to reduce the debt bit. You're having a laugh surely?

[Habitationi Bulla]

26 minutes ago, adarmo said:

Not sure I agree. They've banned tenancy fees, seem to have let house price increase tail off and are trying to reduce the debt that the young will inherit. In contrast to Labour, who introduced and then trebled tuition fees, allowed rampant house price growth on the back of opening the doors to Eastern Europe and the floods of skilled and unskilled labour. The unskilled labour bit is important because it works out now easier and cheaper to hire someone with experience rather than training someone in the UK. Then the country nearly went to the IMF in 2009 as the fallout of the GFC hit which was in a large part down to the crap regulation brought about by.... Labour. Then in the latest round of political BS they promise free university education to everyone. What they don't do is say how they'll find the £10bn/year that'll cost. After they lose the election they state it was only ever an ambition........

Also..... Dianne Abbot 

Tories are not perfect, nobody is, but blame where it's due. 

You seemed to have missed the part where the Tory party have created the biggest housing bubble in history of England since 2010. (yes bigger than Labours)

But heyho you're a homeowner arent you.

[spyguy]

26 minutes ago, PopGun said:

Stopped reading after the trying to reduce the debt bit. You're having a laugh surely?

Dick as he is, Gidiot recuded the budget defict from ~12% - a figure so insanely bad you wonder why people have not hung Brown - to -5%.

The fact, after 5% of cuts, we still have a long way to go just shows how badly Labour fkced up.

And no, its not becuase Austerity does notwork. Its bercause the budget deficit was so big.

Gidiot should have have moved hard and fast on tax credits and working age benefts esp. housing benefit.

[2buyornot2buy]

3 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Gidiot should have have moved hard and fast on tax credits and working age benefts esp. housing benefit.

Agree 100% with this. He lost his nerve. Played around at the edges instead of hitting them hard. 

[BorrowToLeech]

10 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Dick as he is, Gidiot recuded the budget defict from ~12% - a figure so insanely bad you wonder why people have not hung Brown - to -5%.

The fact, after 5% of cuts, we still have a long way to go just shows how badly Labour fkced up.

And no, its not becuase Austerity does notwork. Its bercause the budget deficit was so big.

Gidiot should have have moved hard and fast on tax credits and working age benefts esp. housing benefit.

The Tories expended a significant amount of effort maintaining the housing bubble, and spent billions doing it. 

Had they done literally nothing, the crisis would have been over in 2011. 

Labours housing crisis and debt bubble is history. We are living through the Tory debt bubble now, and they simply do not give a ******. 

Edited July 27, 2017 by DrBuyToLeech

[Darby Ram]

From a HPCer point of view, the great thing about George Osborne is that he undertook a fundamental tax reform (S24) and oversaw the MMR but was too cowardly to state the obvious outcome of these things: that house prices would have to fall eventually because the banks would run out of people to lend to. This means that, as the ranks of priced-out buyers start to outnumber mad-gainz owners, there is no need to be remotely grateful for what he did. In fact, you can ignore it altogether. Since the consequences of Osborne are already locked in, the now politically-powerful renter demographic get to demand even more and really start to turn the screw on Britain's landed gentry. As Momentum would say:

 

Edited July 27, 2017 by Darby Ram

[billybong]

17 hours ago, Darby Ram said:

This video by the Corbynite Momentum faction is getting a lot of attention on Twitter. Some of that attention is good and some of that attention is of the "how they dare these commies say this!" variety.

Regardless of what you think of Momentum/Corbyn, it's pretty interesting to see the "HPI is unearned capital gains" idea going mainstream. My impression is that it's pretty common currency amongst younger people but gets almost no airtime in the mainstream, hence the harrumphing from Tory MPs, Spectator columnists and the like. But, essentially, trying to ignore the elephant in the room is a losing strategy because demographics will eventually destroy you.

I'm eagerly awaiting the first MP brave enough to unambiguously say that they want a house price crash so that they, and their constituents, can afford a house. It will be a game-changer for politics. 

 

It's very well doing a popular video between elections or before an election but UK politicians in the main parties are famous for opportunistic vote/popularity garnering and then reneging on anything and everything immediately after gaining power.

Corbyn admitted after the latest election (2017) that he didn't realise how much his own promises on tuition fees would cost - so more pre-election fine words but worthless words.

 

 

 

Mind you Clegg's video was right about one thing - London turning into wasteland.  He knew.

Edited July 28, 2017 by billybong

[adarmo]

1 hour ago, PopGun said:

Stopped reading after the trying to reduce the debt bit. You're having a laugh surely?

At least they're trying, and each time they do the left scream blue murder.

[adarmo]

1 hour ago, Habitationi Bulla said:

You seemed to have missed the part where the Tory party have created the biggest housing bubble in history of England since 2010. (yes bigger than Labours)

But heyho you're a homeowner arent you.

Source please.

Here' mine http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/5709/housing/market/

BTW t'was Labour who bailed out the banks. It was Labour who started QE and it was under Labour that the base rate plummeted. 

Actually I'm not a homeowner yet (and I'm not sure how that might impair objectivity here but heyho talk crap if you like).... two more weeks to go. But the reason it's taken me this long to be in a position to afford to buy a house isn't because of the Tories. I lay the blame 100% on the policies of Labour 1997-2010. In fact houses are more affordable today than they were at the peak of the last bubble in 2008. 

[Habitationi Bulla]

Thats the UK housing market, i specified England.

My source is HP.

[Habitationi Bulla]

And the Tory Party had the benefit of hindsight ... difference between the Labour bubble and the Tory one, is the Tory Party said before the 2010 election you cannot build an economy on cheap credit and high house prices. Then they actually used taxpayers money via HTB and got the BoE to come up with FFL to "create a nice little housing bubble".

I blame the Tory Party for the 2010 - 2017 bubble, its 100% there creation though the Libs cheered them on.

[BorrowToLeech]

7 hours ago, adarmo said:

Source please.

Here' mine http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/5709/housing/market/

BTW t'was Labour who bailed out the banks. It was Labour who started QE and it was under Labour that the base rate plummeted. 

Actually I'm not a homeowner yet (and I'm not sure how that might impair objectivity here but heyho talk crap if you like).... two more weeks to go. But the reason it's taken me this long to be in a position to afford to buy a house isn't because of the Tories. I lay the blame 100% on the policies of Labour 1997-2010. In fact houses are more affordable today than they were at the peak of the last bubble in 2008. 

Most QE happened under this government, as did all of Funding for lending, and help-to-buy 1, 2 and 3.  

Those are the big three props used to pump prices.  Osbrown's 'nice little property boom'. 

Without those props, prices would be perhaps a third of what they are now, and that would have happened maybe by 2013-2014.

I cheered when the Labours were voted out in 2010, but it's been 7 years people. 7 years. 

Edited July 28, 2017 by DrBuyToLeech

[chronyx]

8 hours ago, billybong said:

 

Mind you Clegg's video was right about one thing - London turning into wasteland.  He knew.

Not the most impressive bit of prescience

Up there with "The sun will come up in the morning"

[Greg Bowman]

8 hours ago, Darby Ram said:

From a HPCer point of view, the great thing about George Osborne is that he undertook a fundamental tax reform (S24) and oversaw the MMR but was too cowardly to state the obvious outcome of these things: that house prices would have to fall eventually because the banks would run out of people to lend to. This means that, as the ranks of priced-out buyers start to outnumber mad-gainz owners, there is no need to be remotely grateful for what he did. In fact, you can ignore it altogether. Since the consequences of Osborne are already locked in, the now politically-powerful renter demographic get to demand even more and really start to turn the screw on Britain's landed gentry. As Momentum would say:

 

No one should be grateful for any gov policy but he did it didn't he? and with massive effect and knew deep down the consequences unlike those c**** Blair and Brown who created the problem in the first place and as SpyGuy says unbelievable  that the tories have reduced the deficit from where it was 

I wouldn't start singing the red flag too soon though comrade, mass protest soon turns ugly look at all the professional protesters getting involved with the Grenfell Tower tragedy.

The truth is there is plenty more scope for welfare cuts and foreign aid cuts let's hope someone has the guts to implement them alongside a clamp down on big co tax avoidance

Ordinary working people are getting a little bored being lectured by media graduates with hipster beards w***** off on twitter, they do not represent many young people. Have a walk around London in fact take a walk on a working day from Holborn along Cheapside and end up at Bank. You will be shoulder to shoulder with thousands of youngsters getting on with life in all sorts of occupations if I close my eyes I could still be the nineties 

House prices need to come down for sure but don't kid yourself Momentum represent anything like a mainstream view, suits our book for now for sure but that's all 

 

Edited July 28, 2017 by Greg Bowman

[adarmo]

1 hour ago, DrBuyToLeech said:

Most QE happened under this government, as did all of Funding for lending, and help-to-buy 1, 2 and 3.  

Those are the big three props used to pump prices.  Osbrown's 'nice little property boom'. 

Without those props, prices would be perhaps a third of what they are now, and that would have happened maybe by 2013-2014.

I cheered when the Labours were voted out in 2010, but it's been 7 years people. 7 years. 

Agreed but seriously a third? After the gfc the average fell by about 20%. Maybe they would have fallen further, maybe by two thirds.... nobody can really know the answer. I often ask myself though what would they be today if Labour hadn't let rip on it. 

The truth is the Tories might have reflated the bubble and kept prices up but they absolutely did not create the bubble.

True QE has been extended but mostly that was used to purchase gilts although iirc they bought high grade corp bonds. I think the reasoning was that it kept borrowing costs low for the government and also for everyone else by extension. 

[adarmo]

35 minutes ago, Greg Bowman said:

No one should be grateful for any gov policy but he did it didn't he? and with massive effect and knew deep down the consequences unlike those c**** Blair and Brown who created the problem in the first place and as SpyGuy says unbelievable  that the tories have reduced the deficit from where it was 

I wouldn't start singing the red flag too soon though comrade, mass protest soon turns ugly look at all the professional protesters getting involved with the Grenfell Tower tragedy.

The truth is there is plenty more scope for welfare cuts and foreign aid cuts let's hope someone has the guts to implement them alongside a clamp down on big co tax avoidance

Ordinary working people are getting a little bored being lectured by media graduates with hipster beards w***** off on twitter, they do not represent many young people. Have a walk around London in fact take a walk on a working day from Holborn along Cheapside and end up at Bank. You will be shoulder to shoulder with thousands of youngsters getting on with life in all sorts of occupations if I close my eyes I could still be the nineties 

House prices need to come down for sure but don't kid yourself Momentum represent anything like a mainstream view, suits our book for now for sure but that's all 

 

Amen to that. 

[BorrowToLeech]

 

9 minutes ago, Greg Bowman said:

Have a walk around London in fact take a walk on a working day from Holborn along Cheapside and end up at Bank. You will be shoulder to shoulder with thousands of youngsters getting on with life in all sorts of occupations if I close my eyes I could still be the nineties 

What an odd thing to say.

I hate to shatter your illusions, but some of those people 'getting on with life' are Labour voters, and a few will be supporting momentum.

Because, you know, statistics.

Playing the game doesn't stop you criticising the rules.  

[btd1981]

Wasn't Osborne quoted as saying 'everybody loves a house price boom' on relation to HTB? Depends where you want to define the start of the bubble, but the conservatives can definitely take massive responsibility for prices being higher than they should be.