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TheCountOfNowhere

To kill a mocking bird

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I don't venture out of HPC very often but found a couple a threads mocking the hard dine by folks of HPC by, you guessed, landlord.

Lots of comments about Lurking and trolling. 

I wonder if they're still mocking us?

 

http://www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/blog/house-price-crash-forum-member-writes-to-the-bank-of-england/

 

We know you're listening......

 

GIRFUY.

Edited by TheCountOfNowhere

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They must a thought they were untouchable till about 12 months ago, financial geniuses, living off our children directly and indirectly, apparantley unable to see past the end if their noses.

 

I hope they loose it all.

 

https://forums.landlordzone.co.uk/forum/take-a-break-for-the-less-serious/70317-house-price-crash

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12 hours ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

They must a thought they were untouchable till about 12 months ago, financial geniuses, living off our children directly and indirectly, apparantley unable to see past the end if their noses.

 

I hope they loose it all.

 

https://forums.landlordzone.co.uk/forum/take-a-break-for-the-less-serious/70317-house-price-crash

You are a very bitter individual. 

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7 minutes ago, Option5 said:

Aren't we all?

I'd bloked mchlpeel so didnt see their post.

 

Am I a very bitter individual.  No, I'm not.  I've done very well out the last 10 years, with no pwopatee and no wieght round my neck

I'm angry, that;s for sure, angry at BTL types being given unlimited support than the same a-holes ramping prices up to untenable levels, angry that they dont care, angry that they have no social conscience, angry that they are being encouraged and allowed to exist post 2007.

In 12 months time I'll be sunning myself somewhere, chuckling to myself on how crazy the idiots back home were so easily taken in by the bankers, politicians and MSM, whilst many BTLs will be  bankrupt, I would imagine that would bring a lot of bitterness.

I'm am not a bitter man.

Now I remember why i blocked him :lol: 

 

Edited by TheCountOfNowhere

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6 minutes ago, Option5 said:

Aren't we all?

Indeed.. I think anyone who's been so comprehensively denied the ability to purchase a basic human necessity because of the greed and moral vacuity of others has every right to be bitter.

While the signs are promising I think it's a bit too early to be cracking out the party hats, although I too hope these sneering landlords lose the shirts off their backs and get a taste of the poverty they've been willfully inflicting on others for years.

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1 minute ago, ftb_fml said:

Indeed.. I think anyone who's been so comprehensively denied the ability to purchase a basic human necessity because of the greed and moral vacuity of others has every right to be bitter.
 

Are you for real ?

I love renting.  No hassle, No upkeep.  Someone else paying the maintenance bill.  Cheaper than buying.

I'd be bitter if i'd been tricked into buying a house at 10x my income or was sat with 10 BTLs that I had no hope in hell of shifting.

I've owned several houses, it's very much over-rated.

Stop believing what aunt fanny tells you and start thinking for yourself.

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3 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

I'd bloked mchlpeel so didnt see their post.

 

Am I a very bitter individual.  No, I'm not.  I've done very well out the last 10 years, with no pwopatee and no wieght round my neck

I'm angry, that;s for sure, angry at BTL types being given unlimited support than the same a-holes ramping prices up to untenable levels, angry that they dont care, angry that they have no social conscience, angry that they are being encouraged and allowed to exist post 2007.

In 12 months time I'll be sunning myself somewhere, chuckling to myself on how crazy the idiots back home were so easily taken in by the bankers, politicians and MSM, whilst many BTLs will be  bankrupt, I would imagine that would bring a lot of bitterness.

I'm am not a bitter man.

Now I remember why i blocked him :lol: 

 

Neither am I, I was being facetious :wacko:. I accidentally got out of property in 2007 as I was moving to Oslo, came back 2 years ago and decided to stay out of property. The complete loss of perspective in the housing market is astonishing.

Is a full stop required after an Emoticon? :unsure:.

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4 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

Are you for real ?

I love renting.  No hassle, No upkeep.  Someone else paying the maintenance bill.  Cheaper than buying.

I'd be bitter if i'd been tricked into buying a house at 10x my income or was sat with 10 BTLs that I had no hope in hell of shifting.

I've owned several houses, it's very much over-rated.

Stop believing what aunt fanny tells you and start thinking for yourself.

My job takes me to different locations around the world for a few years at a time, renting is my best option. As you say, the ability to up sticks at a moments notice has made me very attractive to my employers and they pay me very well in return. I may buy a small place in the future, if the prices fall low enough, that I can buy out of my liquid cash reserves.

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11 minutes ago, Option5 said:

My job takes me to different locations around the world for a few years at a time, renting is my best option. As you say, the ability to up sticks at a moments notice has made me very attractive to my employers and they pay me very well in return. I may buy a small place in the future, if the prices fall low enough, that I can buy out of my liquid cash reserves.

Same here.

In this modern connected global world where jobs are transitory and the money can shift in weeks, months being tied to house is just a teeny bit silly.  

There are not many jobs for life these days, unless it's public sector, but those jobs are in for a real shock at some point soon.

Buy a house...No ta.

Bitter about not owning a house....PMSL.

My own worry in live is for my children and what are going to become of them.  Could be a big warm in which case let's get it over with, i'm too old to be called up and they're too young.

Let the idiots defend the bankers and the queen.

Edited by TheCountOfNowhere

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There is nothing wrong with BTL as an investment if done at the right point in the cycle and by the right people.I know two builders who both bought several houses for cash back in the early 90s.Terraces mostly for around £25k each.They did them up when they didnt have other jobs on to a very good standard.Not posh fittings,but solid and well done.They now still own them.They rent to mostly long term tenants and never put the rent up while the tenant is there.I know for a fact one has been there 12 years and the rent has stayed at £310 a month.They always fix anything that needs fixing themselves and the same day if there is a problem.They value good tenants and have very good relationships with them.I also know one of them gives a weeks free rent in December if they have had no problems with the tenant over the year.

Now then the same area.Back in 2004 along came southern BTL buyers.Phoning up local estate agents and buying terrace houses without even seeing them.A few at once mostly.Paying £70k/£80k because they thought they were cheap.Now those houses are wrecks.Hardly any repairs.Paintwork shocking.The streets in a terrible way.Shipping in any old tenant who turns the area into a hell hole.They are trying to sell now but cant shift them for anywhere near the price they paid.They have voids and none payers coming out of their ears.Leveraged up probably a lot of them.

You can imagine back in 2004 them sitting around at their coffee mornings in London or the home counties talking about the latest BTL they picked up in a northern town.Forcing prices up from the FTB earning £15k a year who go from buying that little terrace to instead having to buy the crap new build on Help to Buy.

Well they are being creamed now,and will continue to be creamed.Soon the best thing of value in those houses will be the copper boiler and pipe,but i have no doubts the locals will make sure when they get the keys back that will be gone down the local scrappy.

The ones who have bought down south with big leverage are in for a terrible shock.They need to go back and look at interest rates in 1982.The Federal funds rate hit 21.5%.Extreme yes.Can never happen they would say.Really?.Interest rates now and house prices are simply all the way along the other end of the extreme.Its one of those bats with a ball on a string.The more it goes away from the bat,the faster it returns.This cycle is ending,and its at extremes.The bounce back the other way is very likely to be the same.

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5 minutes ago, durhamborn said:

There is nothing wrong with BTL as an investment if done at the right point in the cycle and by the right people.I know two builders who both bought several houses for cash back in the early 90s.Terraces mostly for around £25k each.They did them up when they didnt have other jobs on to a very good standard.Not posh fittings,but solid and well done.They now still own them.They rent to mostly long term tenants and never put the rent up while the tenant is there.I know for a fact one has been there 12 years and the rent has stayed at £310 a month.They always fix anything that needs fixing themselves and the same day if there is a problem.They value good tenants and have very good relationships with them.I also know one of them gives a weeks free rent in December if they have had no problems with the tenant over the year.

 

There was a building company in Swinton (Manchester) who built whole estates of good quality 3 bed houses to rent out in the 50s and 60s who operate like this. They still have tenants who moved in when the houses were new. I have never heard a complaint against them from any of their tenants in fact renting from them was seen as a step up from a council house in the 60s. They also came with garages as did the local council houses.

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9 minutes ago, durhamborn said:

There is nothing wrong with BTL as an investment if done at the right point in the cycle and by the right people.I know two builders who both bought several houses for cash back in the early 90s.Terraces mostly for around £25k each.They did them up when they didnt have other jobs on to a very good standard.Not posh fittings,but solid and well done.They now still own them.They rent to mostly long term tenants and never put the rent up while the tenant is there.I know for a fact one has been there 12 years and the rent has stayed at £310 a month.They always fix anything that needs fixing themselves and the same day if there is a problem.They value good tenants and have very good relationships with them.I also know one of them gives a weeks free rent in December if they have had no problems with the tenant over the year.

Now then the same area.Back in 2004 along came southern BTL buyers.Phoning up local estate agents and buying terrace houses without even seeing them.A few at once mostly.Paying £70k/£80k because they thought they were cheap.Now those houses are wrecks.Hardly any repairs.Paintwork shocking.The streets in a terrible way.Shipping in any old tenant who turns the area into a hell hole.They are trying to sell now but cant shift them for anywhere near the price they paid.They have voids and none payers coming out of their ears.Leveraged up probably a lot of them.

You can imagine back in 2004 them sitting around at their coffee mornings in London or the home counties talking about the latest BTL they picked up in a northern town.Forcing prices up from the FTB earning £15k a year who go from buying that little terrace to instead having to buy the crap new build on Help to Buy.

Well they are being creamed now,and will continue to be creamed.Soon the best thing of value in those houses will be the copper boiler and pipe,but i have no doubts the locals will make sure when they get the keys back that will be gone down the local scrappy.

The ones who have bought down south with big leverage are in for a terrible shock.They need to go back and look at interest rates in 1982.The Federal funds rate hit 21.5%.Extreme yes.Can never happen they would say.Really?.Interest rates now and house prices are simply all the way along the other end of the extreme.Its one of those bats with a ball on a string.The more it goes away from the bat,the faster it returns.This cycle is ending,and its at extremes.The bounce back the other way is very likely to be the same.

+1

Not all landlords are bad.

Over levered speculators using BTL as "their pension" are the problem.

They should not be getting tax payer support and such lending should be banned, should have been banned post 2007 for sure.

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Just now, TheCountOfNowhere said:

+1

Not all landlords are bad.

Over levered speculators using BTL as "their pension" are the problem.

They should not be getting tax payer support and such lending should be banned, should have been banned post 2007 for sure.

Exactly,and these are the ones who are about to get a shock.Its been so long since 1982 almost nobody remembers it now.Thats how these things work.1982 was an extreme,but this is an extreme.Its the opposite end,thats all.I think we are going half the way back to 1982 levels in 8 years.10%.Even if im wrong,its only the station we stop at in question.I know very well the train is parked at Kings Cross.Its as far south as its going.Its heading north.Slow at first,but soon picking up speed.

Leveraged BTL and bonds will prove the worst investments in the world in the next decade IMO.

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26 minutes ago, durhamborn said:

There is nothing wrong with BTL as an investment if done at the right point in the cycle and by the right people.I know two builders who both bought several houses for cash back in the early 90s.Terraces mostly for around £25k each.They did them up when they didnt have other jobs on to a very good standard.Not posh fittings,but solid and well done.They now still own them.They rent to mostly long term tenants and never put the rent up while the tenant is there.I know for a fact one has been there 12 years and the rent has stayed at £310 a month.They always fix anything that needs fixing themselves and the same day if there is a problem.They value good tenants and have very good relationships with them.I also know one of them gives a weeks free rent in December if they have had no problems with the tenant over the year.

Now then the same area.Back in 2004 along came southern BTL buyers.Phoning up local estate agents and buying terrace houses without even seeing them.A few at once mostly.Paying £70k/£80k because they thought they were cheap.Now those houses are wrecks.Hardly any repairs.Paintwork shocking.The streets in a terrible way.Shipping in any old tenant who turns the area into a hell hole.They are trying to sell now but cant shift them for anywhere near the price they paid.They have voids and none payers coming out of their ears.Leveraged up probably a lot of them.

You can imagine back in 2004 them sitting around at their coffee mornings in London or the home counties talking about the latest BTL they picked up in a northern town.Forcing prices up from the FTB earning £15k a year who go from buying that little terrace to instead having to buy the crap new build on Help to Buy.

Well they are being creamed now,and will continue to be creamed.Soon the best thing of value in those houses will be the copper boiler and pipe,but i have no doubts the locals will make sure when they get the keys back that will be gone down the local scrappy.

The ones who have bought down south with big leverage are in for a terrible shock.They need to go back and look at interest rates in 1982.The Federal funds rate hit 21.5%.Extreme yes.Can never happen they would say.Really?.Interest rates now and house prices are simply all the way along the other end of the extreme.Its one of those bats with a ball on a string.The more it goes away from the bat,the faster it returns.This cycle is ending,and its at extremes.The bounce back the other way is very likely to be the same.

Good post, I have known lots of people in IT who are into BTL most of whom of course don't have any practical skills so unlike your builder friends need to make a lot more money to break even because they have to pay for everything to be done.

I don't think many BTL's would survive anything like 21.5% - 8% would be a killer for many I guess. 

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1 minute ago, durhamborn said:

Exactly,and these are the ones who are about to get a shock.Its been so long since 1982 almost nobody remembers it now.Thats how these things work.1982 was an extreme,but this is an extreme.Its the opposite end,thats all.I think we are going half the way back to 1982 levels in 8 years.10%.Even if im wrong,its only the station we stop at in question.I know very well the train is parked at Kings Cross.Its as far south as its going.Its heading north.Slow at first,but soon picking up speed.

Leveraged BTL and bonds will prove the worst investments in the world in the next decade IMO.

Leveraged investment is always dangerous.

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46 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

I've owned several houses, it's very much over-rated.

Stop believing what aunt fanny tells you and start thinking for yourself.

Could not agree more.  All this rubbish about "life on hold".

 

13 hours ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

I hope they loose it all.

 I dearly hope this too.  Give decent people a life.

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1 minute ago, iamnumerate said:

Leveraged investment is always dangerous.

Except in 2007 :lol:

To be fair to the BTLers most of them can't add up :lol: 

Anyways, glad to see my thread was taken off topic, yet again.

The point of the original post was

a) Landlords dont like us

b.) Landlords in 2015 thought we were wrong

c) Landlords have been trolling us here, but getting short shrift

d) Landlords have gone very quiet.

e) Some blocked ejiit is still trying to troll me

 

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12 minutes ago, Mine the wheatfield said:

Could not agree more.  All this rubbish about "life on hold".

 

 I dearly hope this too.  Give decent people a life.

While my life has supposedly "been on hold", i've got married, had children, worked in 4 different places, lived in 3 or 4 different places, worked in Paris ( which is brilliant), been to B&Q twice, watched an EA cry and beg me to buy a house, saw my BTLerr friends s**t themselves then 3 years later tell me how I was wrong not to buy a house, made a few (practically risk free ) quid from QE and at the end of it, still have no over priced asset round my neck that in all likelihood, one way or another will collapse in prices, taking my hopes and dreams with.

"You are a very bitter individual. " :lol: 

Edited by TheCountOfNowhere

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1 hour ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

Are you for real ?

I love renting.  No hassle, No upkeep.  Someone else paying the maintenance bill.  Cheaper than buying.

I'd be bitter if i'd been tricked into buying a house at 10x my income or was sat with 10 BTLs that I had no hope in hell of shifting.

I've owned several houses, it's very much over-rated.

Stop believing what aunt fanny tells you and start thinking for yourself.

Of course - tbh I'm a little surprised that I'm having to sell to you the idea of ownership on this forum :P

I appreciate the benefits of renting, however few of these apply to me and given my earnings potential, employment prospects (limited on both fronts) and personal disposition, owning would suit me well.

I have little desire or ability to move around, am lucky enough to have a reasonable deposit and would appreciate the security of living in a property that I can do what I want to, maintain myself (within reason) and make my own. I want to feel comfortable in the knowledge that the rent will arbitrarily never go up, we'll never be evicted because the landlord wants to sell and we'll never again have to deal with smug, profit-driven agents or owners.

Finally I don't want to reach retirement age with the knowledge that I've spent maybe 40% of my lifetime's income on buying someone else a property and ending up with nothing myself; no state pension, a meagre private pension and the necessity to keep earning similar wages well into retirement simply to sustain a roof over my head that otherwise I'd now own outright.

I agree there's nothing intrinsically wrong with BTL, however it should be heavily regulated to limit the market share it occupies and the number of properties an individual can hold IMO. There will always be demand for rental properties, however the volume of properties bought for this purpose should reach to such levels as to grossly distort the market as it has in recent years.

While utterly, utterly pissed off, I have less reason to be as bitter as many HPCers as I've only really been in the position to buy for the past 18 months so have seen limited inflation during this time. That said looking at what I could afford were average property values around 4 times mean annual wage does make me sick as a parrot..

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1 minute ago, ftb_fml said:


Finally I don't want to reach retirement age with the knowledge that I've spent maybe 40% of my lifetime's income on buying someone else a property and ending up with nothing myself; no state pension, a meagre private pension and the necessity to keep earning similar wages well into retirement simply to sustain a roof over my head that otherwise I'd now own outright.

You almost had me to that point :lol: 

The modern BTL is charging you the interest on their loan ( if they are lucky ) .  They're renting the house of the banks hoping the prices will go up so they can lever up and buy another one.  That's what's sold to these muppets.  You';re in effect renting someone else a property :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

You can buy at the price at the levels they are paying for sure but dont forget to you'll have to pay the capital down.

Please buy a house, I love a good laugh

 

 

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1 hour ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

I'd bloked mchlpeel so didnt see their post.

 

Am I a very bitter individual.  No, I'm not.  I've done very well out the last 10 years, with no pwopatee and no wieght round my neck

I'm angry, that;s for sure, angry at BTL types being given unlimited support than the same a-holes ramping prices up to untenable levels, angry that they dont care, angry that they have no social conscience, angry that they are being encouraged and allowed to exist post 2007.

In 12 months time I'll be sunning myself somewhere, chuckling to myself on how crazy the idiots back home were so easily taken in by the bankers, politicians and MSM, whilst many BTLs will be  bankrupt, I would imagine that would bring a lot of bitterness.

I'm am not a bitter man.

Now I remember why i blocked him :lol: 

 

Sometimes we just need to sit back and think about what we are saying.  Anyone who is happy to pay rent for the rest of their life when they could buy is absolutely mental.  

I know we have discussed this topic before but I doubt you are much better off having sold your house ten years ago than you would be if you had kept it.  Interest rates have been pitiful since then and even if you have been lucky in other commodities you were taking a bit of a chance whereas house price inflation really is pretty much guaranteed tax free income over the same period.

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Just now, ftb_fml said:

Of course - tbh I'm a little surprised that I'm having to sell to you the idea of ownership on this forum :P

I appreciate the benefits of renting, however few of these apply to me and given my earnings potential, employment prospects (limited on both fronts) and personal disposition, owning would suit me well.

I have little desire or ability to move around, am lucky enough to have a reasonable deposit and would appreciate the security of living in a property that I can do what I want to, maintain myself (within reason) and make my own. I want to feel comfortable in the knowledge that the rent will arbitrarily never go up, we'll never be evicted because the landlord wants to sell and we'll never again have to deal with smug, profit-driven agents or owners.

Finally I don't want to reach retirement age with the knowledge that I've spent maybe 40% of my lifetime's income on buying someone else a property and ending up with nothing myself; no state pension, a meagre private pension and the necessity to keep earning similar wages well into retirement simply to sustain a roof over my head that otherwise I'd now own outright.

I agree there's nothing intrinsically wrong with BTL, however it should be heavily regulated to limit the market share it occupies and the number of properties an individual can hold IMO. There will always be demand for rental properties, however the volume of properties bought for this purpose should reach to such levels as to grossly distort the market as it has in recent years.

While utterly, utterly pissed off, I have less reason to be as bitter as many HPCers as I've only really been in the position to buy for the past 18 months so have seen limited inflation during this time. That said looking at what I could afford were average property values around 4 times mean annual wage does make me sick as a parrot..

I can understand your point of view, for me the problems with BTL are

1) Tax advantages (now gone)

2) Some tenants have their rent paid by housing benefit which sadly is not always very good at negotiating and pushes prices up (some of whom should be forced to move rather than have rent in a particular area).

3) Artificial shortage of permission of land so causing a shortage

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3 minutes ago, newgi said:

Sometimes we just need to sit back and think about what we are saying.  Anyone who is happy to pay rent for the rest of their life when they could buy is absolutely mental.  

I know we have discussed this topic before but I doubt you are much better off having sold your house ten years ago than you would be if you had kept it.  Interest rates have been pitiful since then and even if you have been lucky in other commodities you were taking a bit of a chance whereas house price inflation really is pretty much guaranteed tax free income over the same period.

It depends on your personal circumstances, I have to move for work in different places every four years on average. If I bought and sold every four years how much better off would I be than if I just move to another rental in the new location with minimal "double payments" time.

And we have to take into account the stress and hassle of buying and selling.

My circumstances (and I presume The Count's) may not be the norm now but with job security falling may well become so.

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