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Mapatasy

EAs waking up to the smell of coffee.

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Shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted but nice to see statements like these appearing from those within the industry... if EAs are to do their job sucsessfully and stay in buisiness they'll need to re-educate owners and others in the industry alike and apply downward pressure on prices pretty quick sharp. 

https://www.estateagenttoday.co.uk/features/2017/7/isnt-it-time-that-property-remembered-what-is-important

Quote

There are times when the workings of the market are such that property values become falsely inflated and when that happens, we need to find a way of reigning it in so that expectations on all sides are met.

For us an industry, that means providing honest counsel on a property’s value and recognising what a purchaser – or tenant – really requires. In the absence of any unified housing policy from government, we need to work together to ensure that property remains focused on need and not greed.

*David Westgate is Group Chief Executive of Andrews Property Group

 

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Where were articles like these on the way up? It reads as complete expediency dressed up in moralistic clothes: While the market was rising they were pushing the bubble to new extremes; now (?) it's falling they will negotiate price falls with vendors in order to keep transaction levels up, and in so doing accelerate those falls.

This article is just putting together a psuedo-moral framework (around greed being bad), to allow the agents to feel good about themselves, and maybe as a hint on how to do those negotiations. The fact that it is true that house prices need to come down is not relevant to this article, otherwise they would have made the same arguments 18 months ago.

Top line: this article makes me optimistic about the future, but it's morally bankrupt.

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EAs need transactions.

Its not coffee they are smelling, its MMR, Basel 3 and flat incomes.

In days of MMR which limits most people to 4x new household income, the mortgage they can get is much smaller than 10 years.

The simple act of forcing a repayment mortage halves the mortgage a monthly income can support compared to IO.

Then these new gandlged thigns such as verifiy income and expenditure hobbles the more credit hungry.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Toast said:

 

"this article makes me optimistic about the future"

I certainly agree with that statement.

When you start seeing the estate agents wringing their hands with cries of "won't somebody think of the children!!" you know that a lot of self serving spivs are very worried indeed

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16 minutes ago, spyguy said:

EAs need transactions.

Its not coffee they are smelling, its MMR, Basel 3 and flat incomes.

In days of MMR which limits most people to 4x new household income, the mortgage they can get is much smaller than 10 years.

The simple act of forcing a repayment mortage halves the mortgage a monthly income can support compared to IO.

Then these new gandlged thigns such as verifiy income and expenditure hobbles the more credit hungry.

 

 

MMR looks at affordability without a maximum mortgage term. It may not prevent some people from getting a mortgage, it could just extend the term until the monthly payment is low enough.

The BoE recently increased the amount of mortgages in excess of 4.5x household income, by changing the rules to a rolling year

  http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mortgageshome/article-4263602/Bank-England-make-EASIER-borrow-mortgage.html

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1 minute ago, Democorruptcy said:

MMR looks at affordability without a maximum mortgage term. It may not prevent some people from getting a mortgage, it could just extend the term until the monthly payment is low enough.

The BoE recently increased the amount of mortgages in excess of 4.5x household income, by changing the rules to a rolling year

  http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mortgageshome/article-4263602/Bank-England-make-EASIER-borrow-mortgage.html

Yes but ... bear in mind banks were lending 8x made up income.

Tweaking with the MMR rolling year levels are not going to make a huge difference.

The new rules are pretty clear - mots banks will only lend up 4x household income - minus any recurring expense - cars, childcare, util bills.

Look at the mean salary for an area. 60^ of people wiil learn than or less.

With couples, one tends to have a much lower income than the other.

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11 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Yes but ... bear in mind banks were lending 8x made up income.

Tweaking with the MMR rolling year levels are not going to make a huge difference.

The new rules are pretty clear - mots banks will only lend up 4x household income - minus any recurring expense - cars, childcare, util bills.

Look at the mean salary for an area. 60^ of people wiil learn than or less.

With couples, one tends to have a much lower income than the other.

I've posted you a link about official BoE rules which has increased the availability of mortgages over 4.5x household income. 

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1 minute ago, Democorruptcy said:

I've posted you a link about official BoE rules which has increased the availability of mortgages over 4.5x household income. 

I know., I said most.

The majority of mortgages will be below 4x.

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the problem with that bloody rule is that its deliberately there to keep prices high, by setting prices at the margins (the marginal buyer will be someone right at their limit (bidding over 4.5 times income)

that mean out of 10 identical houses, one will sell for say £1 million, and therefore the rest will be priced at £1 million, but no-one can achieve the asking prices, until the next person is allowed to overstrech themselves. All the houses just sit for ages with crazy asking prices, not selling like the rest of the country.

without that rule, allowing the odd marginal buyer through, the houses would have NO buyers at that level, and thus would find a new level where houses can be transacted within normal wage limits.

the wage limits should be a hard rule across the country, really get the market moving again. 

But of course cant have houses falling can we? better to have a broken market. 

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8 minutes ago, jiltedjen said:

the problem with that bloody rule is that its deliberately there to keep prices high, by setting prices at the margins (the marginal buyer will be someone right at their limit (bidding over 4.5 times income)

that mean out of 10 identical houses, one will sell for say £1 million, and therefore the rest will be priced at £1 million, but no-one can achieve the asking prices, until the next person is allowed to overstrech themselves. All the houses just sit for ages with crazy asking prices, not selling like the rest of the country.

without that rule, allowing the odd marginal buyer through, the houses would have NO buyers at that level, and thus would find a new level where houses can be transacted within normal wage limits.

the wage limits should be a hard rule across the country, really get the market moving again. 

But of course cant have houses falling can we? better to have a broken market. 

Sort.

High irs force a quick adjustments.

Low transaction create a different market. Most homeowners will struggle to sell their houses.

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9 hours ago, spyguy said:

Yes but ... bear in mind banks were lending 8x made up income.

Tweaking with the MMR rolling year levels are not going to make a huge difference.

The new rules are pretty clear - mots banks will only lend up 4x household income - minus any recurring expense - cars, childcare, util bills.

Look at the mean salary for an area. 60^ of people wiil learn than or less.

With couples, one tends to have a much lower income than the other.

I thought MMR came in a while back

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12 minutes ago, Talking Monkey said:

I thought MMR came in a while back

2 years now.

Mmr in. Io btl being taxed.

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Maybe the lack of transactions is making the gov panic. too many people have unrealistic expectations of current house worth, or even holding on as it would be worth 10% more next year.

markets grinding to a halt and the predicted tax take is not materialising. 

there is demand out there, but sellers need it rammed down their necks that the clearing level is 10-20% below where they think it 'should' be 

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.

Quote


For us an industry, that means providing honest counsel on a property’s value 

 

They wouldn't know honest council if it was staring them in the face.

Evil crooks on the way up and evil crooks on the way down - rely on it.

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21 hours ago, Democorruptcy said:

I've posted you a link about official BoE rules which has increased the availability of mortgages over 4.5x household income. 

They make a rule, then say it can be broken 15% of the time. Just like their fire safety regulations. Such laxity is complete lack of regulation. Business as usual. 

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8 hours ago, billybong said:

.

They wouldn't know honest council if it was staring them in the face.

Evil crooks on the way up and evil crooks on the way down - rely on it.

Well, theyve shat in the punch bowl. Now theyve got to drink it.

All down to EAs not knowing how their business makes money - on transaction. Fcktards.

EAs are doubly fcked now as there's nowhere elsefor them to go now. A lot went to places like Dixons and the like, sh1t sales based orgs. Interweb destroyed that too.

 

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58 minutes ago, spyguy said:

EAs are doubly fcked now as there's nowhere elsefor them to go now. A lot went to places like Dixons and the like, sh1t sales based orgs. Interweb destroyed that too

my old man isnt an EA but has always done sales type jobs. Hes been through 6 jobs this year. He cant cope with the level of micromanaging companies force on their sales and managment staff nowadays and has walked out of every single job. Daily stand up calls at 9am, progress calls at 4pm,unrealistic sales targets,  fines for not collecting customer information (as an example Arnold Clark fine staff £10 for every customer who fails to provide an email address and they fine staff £100 a day for using a machine which another member if staff is logged onto).

He worked mainly in double glazing sales and used to be able to dictate his own hours, organise his own diary and do everything on paper with a pen (he HATES computers) but those days are gone for all of us. I imagine a lot of EAs still operate on a similar basis.

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i also have a family member in sales who walked out recently. The bonus's never came as the targets were changes retrospectively, managers would set phone systems up so that they would be the first to receive a call and then pass it onto someone else (the first person to get the call gets the bonus regardless if they processed it or not).

Organisations taking the piss with wages. Huge pressure to achieve sales and punishments. Wages at minimum level, with any additional monies to live off via bonus, or targets.

Just horrible. But i do think this is mostly at the lower level of sales, once you start selling specialist stuff like engineering components it can be quite lucrative. 

EA's? well most will just end up in Tescos, night shift zero hours stacking shelves. Due to the huge chase for yeild these days, any 'easy money' type jobs have been targeted. purple bricks is just one example of traditional EA's going out the window.  

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On 15/07/2017 at 9:15 AM, Democorruptcy said:

I've posted you a link about official BoE rules which has increased the availability of mortgages over 4.5x household income. 

596b279de74c9_FSRJune2017LTIsupdate.png.3ea84e65d17df8886d83eb547b6abcfe.png

Source

Actually, what you posted was a tendentious (not to say specious) argument from Ray Boulger, who is a mortgage broker (who perhaps has a vested interest in being creative regarding the possible impacts of the rule change). A crucial thing to bear in mind is the likely magnitude of the impact of the rule change. I'd argue that it was negligible.

The break in that data (suggestive of something substantial happening) looks to me to be April 2014, which is MMR implementation.

But just look at the dip lending above an LTI of 5.

I'd say that that graph pours a bucket of cold water on the two arguments sometimes made by rampers:

  1. that the LTI cap isn't changing borrowing behaviour
  2. that the lack of a mortgage term cap in the MMR rules isn't changing borrowing behaviour.

 

Edited by Bland Unsight

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1 hour ago, Mine the wheatfield said:

Spyguy - don't use examples that are billows.  I don't work for them btw.

Billows?

Early 90s, all the bs eas did end at dixons, carphone and the like.

Most EAs have about 5 years work experience. Then they jack it in. 

Early 90s had a consumer boom going - amazing how when housing comes cheaper, money is freed up - so eas left to friwing, sales driven sectors - electronic consumer goods, mobiles, low end financial services.

All those sectors are on line now. Theres veryfew jobs, never mind growing jobs.

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1 hour ago, jiltedjen said:

i also have a family member in sales who walked out recently. The bonus's never came as the targets were changes retrospectively, managers would set phone systems up so that they would be the first to receive a call and then pass it onto someone else (the first person to get the call gets the bonus regardless if they processed it or not).

Organisations taking the piss with wages. Huge pressure to achieve sales and punishments. Wages at minimum level, with any additional monies to live off via bonus, or targets.

Just horrible. But i do think this is mostly at the lower level of sales, once you start selling specialist stuff like engineering components it can be quite lucrative. 

EA's? well most will just end up in Tescos, night shift zero hours stacking shelves. Due to the huge chase for yeild these days, any 'easy money' type jobs have been targeted. purple bricks is just one example of traditional EA's going out the window.  

Too many people chasing too little business.

Low end sales have always been like that. 

High end sales tend to require a lot of tevhnucal and commercial experience. Nit really suitable for someone whos only demonstrable talents is just copying bs posh terms, like 'much sought after', 'level access to shops'.

Even scam like mcarth and stone/ oap ripping off appears to have hit the buffer now most people have twigged its a rip off.

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