The social care crisis can only be tackled by taxing old people’s property

[Fairyland]

The Guardian: The social care crisis can only be tackled by taxing old people’s property

Quote

We don’t need a magic money tree to fund care for the elderly – the wealth is already there in their homes

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Theresa’s May tragedy – if you put it that high – is that her manifesto’s bravest proposals honestly showed where the money is hiding, and where it should be harvested – from the old themselves. Unfortunately, the key demographic for putting the Tories into power is the over-60s: they took their revenge by turning out to vote in lower numbers. Will she dare try again to tell the home truths my generation needs to hear? We are beneficiaries of a shower of unearned wealth, beyond our wildest dreams when we struggled to buy modest homes back when we were young. Now 80% of 70-year-olds own their own homes – but only 35% of 35-year-olds do, and many never will. This windfall for the old has distorted the property market and the entire economy, which has become addicted to never-ending property inflation.

Politicians need to tell older generations that the care they need must be paid for from their unexpected property bonanza, not from by taxing the meagre earnings of young families. It’s a hard sell. I have often confronted older audiences who steam up at the idea they didn’t work their fingers to the bone to own their homes and deserve to keep every penny. “We had nothing when we were young”; “We’ve paid our tax and national insurance, so the state should pay for our care.” They detest inheritance tax above all. Tell them the fairest way is a property levy, hypothecated for social care and housing for the young, and you’re lucky to avoid being attacked.

 

Edited July 6, 2017 by Fairyland

[Fairyland]

Generational envy, politics: How and Why have we come to this stage?

[afly]

3 minutes ago, Fairyland said:

Generational envy, politics: How and Why have we come to this stage?

Short term political thinking induced by a child like voting populace 

[Up the spout]

 

4 minutes ago, Fairyland said:

Generational envy, politics: How and Why have we come to this stage?

Debt of £1,650,000,000,000 and growing by the second?

[spyguy]

11 minutes ago, Fairyland said:

The Guardian: The social care crisis can only be tackled by taxing old people’s property

 

I dont remember the guardian getting behind Mays attempt at resolving this, without dumping the cost on the young.

They backed Corbyns money for everyone! (But private sector)

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

13 minutes ago, Fairyland said:

Generational envy, politics: How and Why have we come to this stage?

Older demographic continuing to vote themselves free money at the expense of everyone else ?

[jiltedjen]

27 minutes ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

Older demographic continuing to vote themselves free money at the expense of everyone else ?

+1

[Democorruptcy]

Social care costs won't be as high as NHS PFI payments.

How about renogotiating the interest rates on PFI payments? 

[ingermany]

Old people have no more right to free board and lodgings than young people have to a free university degree. They should pay, via a loan, with the actual cost deferred, with interest applied, until it can be recouped from the estate. I think that was the manifesto promise. It was sensible and fair. It is probably inevitable, and government should set about making it happen through an efficient and equitable mechanism. Not the dogs dinner of university loans that allowed certain areas of UK to grant exemptions, meaning that freebies were granted to Scottish, French and German students doing degrees in Scotland at the expense of English ones who were charged up to 50k. If people need to pay for a service, let's at least make it fair and transparent this time. 

[doomed]

Or people could just look after their own parents like happened for the rest of history. The state should not be cradle to grave guardian for all.

[stormymonday_2011]

41 minutes ago, ingermany said:

Old people have no more right to free board and lodgings than young people have to a free university degree. They should pay, via a loan, with the actual cost deferred, with interest applied, until it can be recouped from the estate. I think that was the manifesto promise. It was sensible and fair. It is probably inevitable, and government should set about making it happen through an efficient and equitable mechanism. Not the dogs dinner of university loans that allowed certain areas of UK to grant exemptions, meaning that freebies were granted to Scottish, French and German students doing degrees in Scotland at the expense of English ones who were charged up to 50k. If people need to pay for a service, let's at least make it fair and transparent this time. 

The elderly in residential care homes don't get free board and lodging

The cost of their care is charged 100% against their assets including their property until it's value is reduced to £23,250

It is only those receiving care in their own properties (i.e. care in the community) who don't get the cost charged against their homes

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/home-and-care/care-homes/paying-for-permanent-residential-care/

 

[Noallegiance]

Has anyone ever dared ask or investigate why care homes cost £800 per week?

Anyone?

[Will!]

1 hour ago, doomed said:

Or people could just look after their own parents like happened for the rest of history. The state should not be cradle to grave guardian for all.

Indeed.  Social care has never been free.

[frederico]

9 minutes ago, Noallegiance said:

Has anyone ever dared ask or investigate why care homes cost £800 per week?

Anyone?

This is a good question

 

But anyway, relying on house prices to pay for anything seems incredibly foolish to me.

Houses are not wealth they are places to live.

Houses should not be viewed as wealth generation

[afly]

8 minutes ago, Noallegiance said:

Has anyone ever dared ask or investigate why care homes cost £800 per week?

Anyone?

Theres not much money in it, full time care provision is bloody expensive. A very uncomfortable aspect is also those who can pay subsidise those who cannot

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/insurance/longtermcare/10435265/Care-home-fees-the-scandal-of-secret-mark-ups.html

[spyguy]

37 minutes ago, Noallegiance said:

Has anyone ever dared ask or investigate why care homes cost £800 per week?

Anyone?

Easy.

They have to provide 3 meals, keep the place heated, provide  247 care, all for ~110/day.

Those are hotel prices.

[“Nasty Piece of work”]

Does lovely Theresa need Care yet?

[Noallegiance]

30 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Easy.

They have to provide 3 meals, keep the place heated, provide  247 care, all for ~110/day.

Those are hotel prices.

Are there any other lines of income for care homes aside from what residents pay?

[spyguy]

36 minutes ago, Noallegiance said:

Are there any other lines of income for care homes aside from what residents pay?

Council or residents oney/assets.

That it. Unless someone fancies going to watch an 80yo pole dance....

[ingermany]

2 hours ago, stormymonday_2011 said:

The elderly in residential care homes don't get free board and lodging

The cost of their care is charged 100% against their assets including their property until it's value is reduced to £23,250

It is only those receiving care in their own properties (i.e. care in the community) who don't get the cost charged against their homes

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/home-and-care/care-homes/paying-for-permanent-residential-care/

 

Yes, but May at least wanted to end that, and allow the cost to be rolled up and deferred until after death, at which point the costs could be paid from the estate.  It sounded like a fairer solution. Instead, the can has been kicked down the road again. Care at home for meals, and personal care could be dealt with in the same way.....wasnt that the proposal, to create some equality of treatment, with no immediate need to sell property assets while the elderly person is still alive. May came up with a credible solution and promptly ditched it at the first sign of criticism. 

[doomed]

If they want the state to provide care for everybody from 75 to 100 years of age no matter how much they tax us it can't be paid for. Unfortunately peoples expectations are not aligned with reality so full speed ahead into the brickwall that awaits.

[macca13]

There is the line that all working people say " I have paid in all my life working from 16 to 65, why should I pay twice"

I do agree with this too a point, My Gran has a warden controlled accommodation, her neighbors that came from Sri Lanka, never worked, never paid in, but have a better more modern flat than she does, She has private pensions so pays full rent and tax on her pensions, She worked payed tax and raised children. The neighbors pay nothing!

So how on earth can you blame working people for getting annoyed when the reason the system is collapsing is because of all the free loaders (British included) 

If her neighbors spoke English I would ask them how on earth they have not been deported!

[TheCountOfNowhere]

5 hours ago, Fairyland said:

The Guardian: The social care crisis can only be tackled by taxing old people’s property

 

Or, withdrawing funding from the over inflated public sector bubble and letting old people die. 

 

My father is old...the NHS is keeping him alive at great expense/profit, his house is unaffordable to most working class people...meanwhile his grand children suffer.

 

Main difference is...they can't vote

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...yet.

 

 

Edited July 6, 2017 by TheCountOfNowhere

[adarmo]

5 hours ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

Older demographic continuing to vote themselves free money at the expense of everyone else ?

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic"

Benjamin Franklin

[FedupTeddiBear]

4 hours ago, doomed said:

Or people could just look after their own parents like happened for the rest of history. The state should not be cradle to grave guardian for all.

The state has created a situation where many younger people live in tiny houses where both partners work full time to pay the mortgage, making it almost impossible for them to provide reasonable care for elderly parents.