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http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/25012006/17/forget...uel-future.html

WORRIED about rising oil prices or the Russians turning off the gas? Then try coal. After 20 years in which Britain wrote off the black stuff as Arthur Scargill's legacy, and the UK power industry made a "dash for gas", coal is due for a major comeback. Advertisement
So far, the energy debate in the UK has centred on renewables versus nuclear power. However, coal is far cheaper than both and has the added advantage of being on our doorstep - dig a hole practically anywhere in Central Belt Scotland and you will find the stuff.
Globally, demand for coal has been skyrocketing
as a substitute for dearer oil and gas in electricity generation, and because of increasing applications in modern steel production. Coal also comes from stable regions such as Australia and the United States. And with around 300 years worth of reserves globally, we are not about to run out of supplies.

It's looking good again and UKC has some take-over bid rumours flying around.

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http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/25012006/17/forget...uel-future.html

WORRIED about rising oil prices or the Russians turning off the gas? Then try coal. After 20 years in which Britain wrote off the black stuff as Arthur Scargill's legacy, and the UK power industry made a "dash for gas", coal is due for a major comeback. Advertisement
So far, the energy debate in the UK has centred on renewables versus nuclear power. However, coal is far cheaper than both and has the added advantage of being on our doorstep - dig a hole practically anywhere in Central Belt Scotland and you will find the stuff.
Globally, demand for coal has been skyrocketing
as a substitute for dearer oil and gas in electricity generation, and because of increasing applications in modern steel production. Coal also comes from stable regions such as Australia and the United States. And with around 300 years worth of reserves globally, we are not about to run out of supplies.

It's looking good again and UKC has some take-over bid rumours flying around.

where would the best investment be if you wanted to get into coal though ?

Coal miners?

Or is there something which tracks the price of coal ?

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where would the best investment be if you wanted to get into coal though ?

Coal miners?

Or is there something which tracks the price of coal ?

Shares in UK Coal. They are up 2.88% today. New technology has overcome the greenhouse problem:

http://www.worldcoal.org/pages/content/index.asp?PageID=19

And...the Chinese are going into it with the UK:

http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/news/nte60411.htm

Edited by Realistbear

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"And with around 300 years worth of reserves globally, we are not about to run out of supplies"

How is that 300 years calculated ??

According to present (very low) usage levels or future (very high, if oil runs out!) predicted levels ?

If there really is 3 centuries worth ..... maybe peak oil is just a scam to milk the price until the mass switch over to coal and coal derivatives ..... ???

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Coal is getting a lot of attention lately:

http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=1171&id=115122006

Tue 24 Jan 2006

Energy review opens door for revival of coal, claims minister
GERRI PEEV
POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT
MINISTERS yesterday paved the way for a "renaissance" of the coal industry as they highlighted the risks of putting Britain at the mercy of
unpredictable foreign regimes
for energy supplies.
New "very exciting" technology
would kick-start the beleaguered coal sector 20 years after it was wound down by the Thatcher government.

Price of UK Coal was up 3.24% last Friday. Might make a good medium to long term investment.

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Coal is getting a lot of attention lately:

http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=1171&id=115122006

Tue 24 Jan 2006

Energy review opens door for revival of coal, claims minister
GERRI PEEV
POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT
MINISTERS yesterday paved the way for a "renaissance" of the coal industry as they highlighted the risks of putting Britain at the mercy of
unpredictable foreign regimes
for energy supplies.
New "very exciting" technology
would kick-start the beleaguered coal sector 20 years after it was wound down by the Thatcher government.

Price of UK Coal was up 3.24% last Friday. Might make a good medium to long term investment.

Good find and like the thinking, defo worth a little look in more detail. Cheers

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UKC up again today to 1.46 (+1.74%). I think the idea of coal is catching on? Mining generally seems to have done well lately, especially Rio Tinto.

Edited by Realistbear

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Sorry, I dont buy any of this.

There may be a short-term rise in coal share prices but thats all it is.

I find it hard to believe that this would be in any way acceptable in a climate where the whole planet is looking for ways to reduce CO2 emmissions that people are going to start burning coal again.

Anyway, how would it solve transport problems?

Or electricity generation? How many coal fired power stations are left?

You think they're gonna build coal fired stations instead of nuclear? Not a chance.

This is, at best, hype; at worst, share ramping.

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Yes. I think its share ramping. How do I know? Well it worked on me and I decided to go in for a little punt. Not dissapointed yet either as it went up enough today to pay my dealing charges.

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"I find it hard to believe that this would be in any way acceptable in a climate where the whole planet is looking for ways to reduce CO2 emmissions that people are going to start burning coal again."

http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/25012006/17/forget...uel-future.html

"For the record, clean coal is no longer an oxymoron. A host of new technologies is now available to reduce or eliminate and other pollutants emitted when burning coal. And guess where they are making this technology? Here in Scotland."

If you check out this link (posted above) you will see that coal is no longer the environmental problem it was 20 years ago. This why the Chinese and UK are going into it as a joint venture--China are aware of the pressure on them to clean up their air.

http://www.worldcoal.org/pages/content/index.asp?PageID=19

BTW--UKC up to 148.4 today.

Edited by Realistbear

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Something must be going on--just checked UKCoal and its up 5.10% today. Hmmm, are HPC.co.uk members taking up positions? :D

Yes. I think its share ramping. How do I know? Well it worked on me and I decided to go in for a little punt. Not dissapointed yet either as it went up enough today to pay my dealing charges.

Sine270, Feeling chuffed about now?

up 6.28% today (Wednesday, Feb 1st)

Someone took up a massive position in UK Coal at about 11 a.m. today causing a spike. Average numbers of shares traded almost tripled today:

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=UKC.L&t=1d

Is this blog that influential maybe?

Realistbear

Edited by Realistbear

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Something must be going on--just checked UKCoal and its up 5.10% today. Hmmm, are HPC.co.uk members taking up positions? :D

Sine270, Feeling chuffed about now?

up 6.28% today (Wednesday, Feb 1st)

Someone took up a massive position in UK Coal at about 11 a.m. today causing a spike. Average numbers of shares traded almost tripled today:

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=UKC.L&t=1d

Is this blog that influential maybe?

Realistbear

Nice one RB :) Yes feeling quite chuffed about it but wishing I had bought more. Might start buying more though if the price keeps going up.

Got any more tips?

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Can't believe people are ramping shares like this (and the mods are ignoring it). This place is turning into a tip-sheet.

Where is the evidence for any of these assertions?

Whats this "new technology"?

Anyone buying shares based on anonymous and unsubstantiated tips on a website deserves to be hammered.

DYOR

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Can't believe people are ramping shares like this (and the mods are ignoring it). This place is turning into a tip-sheet.

Where is the evidence for any of these assertions?

Whats this "new technology"?

Anyone buying shares based on anonymous and unsubstantiated tips on a website deserves to be hammered.

DYOR

But you probably think its okay for the VI's to ramp housing.

The difference is that certain shares are actually going up. Gold is going up. Are you saying that we shouldnt be allowed to discuss the increase in share prices?

Why do you have a problem with this?

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Can't believe people are ramping shares like this (and the mods are ignoring it). This place is turning into a tip-sheet.

Where is the evidence for any of these assertions?

Whats this "new technology"?

Anyone buying shares based on anonymous and unsubstantiated tips on a website deserves to be hammered.

DYOR

If you go to the links above you will find the articles on the "new technology" and why there has been recent press coverage. This blog covers such things as investments although it seems most are "ramping" gold at present. Coal is a very interesting subject IMHO as it offers us a re-discovered energy source that has become essential in view of world oil shortages.

new technology:

http://www.worldcoal.org/pages/content/index.asp?PageID=19

Edited by Realistbear

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If you go to the links above you will find the articles on the "new technology" and why there has been recent press coverage. This blog covers such things as investments although it seems most are "ramping" gold at present. Coal is a very interesting subject IMHO as it offers us a re-discovered energy source that has become essential in view of world oil shortages.

Realistbear,

I do believe in coal having a strong future but at the risk of upsetting some vulnerable souls I suggest that one of the potentially explosive areas is coal liquification.

I have exposure to this through Molybdenum miners as MolyB is a key catalyst. Any thoughts?

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Realistbear,

I do believe in coal having a strong future but at the risk of upsetting some vulnerable souls I suggest that one of the potentially explosive areas is coal liquification.

I have exposure to this through Molybdenum miners as MolyB is a key catalyst. Any thoughts?

Mr. Nice

I am sorry but I am no scientist and became interested in coal through a "gut instinct" that it may become viable again given the declining NS Oil reserves and oil reaching toward $100 bbl.

I checked Molybdenum on the net and it appears research was carried out sometime ago that found that coal used with this substance produced large usueable quantities of oil:

http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/produc...osti_id=6142698

"Coal liquefaction experiments were carried out in a stirred autoclave under nitrogen.^Tetralin was employed as solvent, and the catalyst, when used, was ammonium heptamolybdate (impregnated on coal) or stannous chloride (powdered).^Production of pentane soluble oil was higher in the runs with catalyst,"

There is little publicity about this at the moment which I think accounts for the low share price. The huge spike yesterday leads me to suspect there may be some institutional buying going on but I am no expert on how the market works either! The fact that the Chinese are interested tells me to buy shares.

I have just discovered this link--seems that the process is being "kept under wraps" for some reason:

http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_05/reser092205.html

MOLYBDENUM

……The Big SecretKen Reser, Sept. 21/05 (highlighted with my emphasis)

Subsequent to my previous report, "Molybdenum The 21st Century Metal" www.adanacmoly.com/articles/Moly_21st_Century_Metal-180KB.pdf I have done further extensive research for information on current and future uses of Molybdenum. This has been an undertaking of continual frustration & magnitude due to lack of mainstream information on this Noble Metal. Outside of the continual references to Molybdenum being used in stainless steel and other specialty metal alloys, fertilizers, lubricants and all the other uses I previously outlined in the 321 report (some of which are not reported in mainstream media) I have found what I consider the 'Big Secret' in regard to Molybdenum.
This so called secret involves considering that few people in the mining industry pay much attention to the Catalyst market for Molybdenum, if any at all. It is considered a small portion of the overall world demand in any charts, graphs or articles one may see and read. This is not the case as I see it from all of my own research.
Consider why, when so many pundits and experts have continually called for the same dramatic and rapid decline in Molybdenum prices as we have seen in past when it spiked in price, that it has confounded all the predictions and has remained high for months on-end, all the while outliving those same wrongful predications.
Today I believe there are little known, but yet profound changes afoot in the world of energy due to scientific discoveries in catalyst research that are outside the scope of most mainstream reports and articles on Molybdenum, and they are so dramatic and exciting that soon the entire Oil industry will soon be in shock.
These changes being brought about by the new discoveries in the catalyst sciences involve coal, plastics and even used tires. The energy field I'm speaking of is 'Liquefaction'. In the 1950's and even earlier, Coal Liquefaction to produce fuel oils was known and studied in the USA, Germany, Japan and S Africa among others.
Japan in 1940 produced 30,000 T of liquefied coal oil. Production continued until the end of WW2. Immediately after the end of the war the US military banned further research into coal liquefaction, alleging that it was military research.
The process was costly and compared to the price of a barrel of Oil, not yet feasible. It has been stated that for Coal Liquefaction to be cost efficient and profitable, a barrel of crude must sell for $32.00.
The Japanese have published reports stating $20.00 p/barrel. The better the catalyst functions, the higher the liquid yield rate becomes. Through international cooperation coal liquefaction has gone from the research stage to commercialization in Japan. Today China, Japan, Germany, Indonesia, & the USA have all embarked on projects with coal liquefaction. Before I continue with this discussion on the Liquefaction process tho, I would like to dwell on crude oil for a moment.
Now lastly before I return to the Coal Liquefaction aspect that gave inspiration for this report, you should realize that the global demand for Molybdenum rose by 7.2% in 2004 to 374 million lbs from 349 m/lbs in 2003 as outlined in a study commissioned by International Molybdenum PLC and performed by CRU Strategies Ltd. mining consultants. Further CRU states that conservatively Molybdenum demand thru 2009 will grow by 3.5% to 4.1% p/a and the projected demand will be up to 475 million lbs in the same year. They also (CRU) project a deficit in Molybdenum production in 2008 and as much as a 14 million lb deficit in 2009.
The theory of the world entering a "Super Commodities Cycle" is supported by recent reports by Citigroup-Smith Barney (China - The Engine of a Commodities Cycle, March 31 /05) and Goldman Sachs (Metals & Mining March 21 /05) and US Energy (Oil March 30/05) and along with the likes of the renowned Jim Rogers I believe this super cycle in finite resources is well underway and will last for many, many years to come.
Now back to the Liquefacton portion of this report. The China Daily News online on the 03/12/2004 carried an interesting article on
China's liquefaction projects
. They stated in part that China has set up its first coal liquefaction research centre in Shanghai, a move to safeguard the nation's increasing oil supply shortage. The centre will explore and develop direct and indirect liquefaction technologies to produce gasoline & diesel fuel.
Edited by Realistbear

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Thanks for your comments and that is an interesting piece.

I agree anything that the chinese are into has to be worthy of note. I will do some more research to see what uplift in price an increase in coal demand might give.

One concern is that there is so much of it that any increased incremental demand can easily be met. That is something i will look into.

Cheers

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There is some very heavy trading in UK Coal this morning--already reached average trading volume this morning with 5 hours left to run. Anyone know what may be happening? It can't be HPC'ers affecting the volume---can it? Its not me!!!!

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There is some very heavy trading in UK Coal this morning--already reached average trading volume this morning with 5 hours left to run. Anyone know what may be happening? It can't be HPC'ers affecting the volume---can it? Its not me!!!!

Okay. I can accept responsibility for a tiny bit of it having bought a few more today.

After reading the articles you posted I also got the gut feeling about coal being a bigger part of the future.

To me its a bonus to see any sort of research which probably isnt already priced into the market. I was able to get the same benefit from HPC when buying gold a year or so back.

I learned to ignore what you can read in share magazines and such like. Instead I prefer to listen to people who are thinking outside the box.

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Okay. I can accept responsibility for a tiny bit of it having bought a few more today.

After reading the articles you posted I also got the gut feeling about coal being a bigger part of the future.

To me its a bonus to see any sort of research which probably isnt already priced into the market. I was able to get the same benefit from HPC when buying gold a year or so back.

I learned to ignore what you can read in share magazines and such like. Instead I prefer to listen to people who are thinking outside the box.

I admit to buying a few UKC shares this morning (and infact it is my FIRST EVER share purchase !!)

I think coal has a very strong long term future and actually said so on another forum back in November..

(http://forums.contractoruk.com/threadnav4813-2-10.html)

I understand that even with current extraction technology there are ~200 years of known coal reserves in the UK

Extraction technology where more difficult seams can be exploited is being developed.

The technology for 'cleaner burn' coal is now very advanced

I believe that one day (even in my own lifetime) the time will come when the UK will have to once again exploit its natural energy assest of "King Coal"

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There are a lot of news articles today on the tremendous profit growth coal is experiencing internationally:

http://www.thesouthern.com/articles/2006/0...op/10004092.txt

"Mead said the technology exists to gasify coal to create synthetic natural gas, liquid transportation fuel, electricity and to make chemical feedstock to use in a variety of products."

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/LSECWS/...3450&source=RNS

Earlier this week, Coal & Allied announced a record net profit after tax for 2005 of A$290.1 million (compared with A$116.6 million in 2004). Coal & Allied’s total shipments in 2005 were 29 million tones of thermal and coking coal, with the majority going to Japan.

http://money.canoe.ca/News/Sectors/Mining/...1421945-cp.html

Fording Canadian Coal's Q4 profit more than doubles to $218M from year-ago $85M
2006-02-01 23:21:00
CALGARY (CP) - Higher coal prices helped push Fording Canadian Coal Trust's (TSX:FDG.UN) fourth-quarter profits up to $218 million, more than doubling the $85 million it earned in the same period in 2004.

____________________________________________________________________________

Edited by Realistbear

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There is some very heavy trading in UK Coal this morning--already reached average trading volume this morning with 5 hours left to run. Anyone know what may be happening? It can't be HPC'ers affecting the volume---can it? Its not me!!!!

No its called ramping.

There was a report on Channel4 or BBC2 last night about this "clean coal" nonsense.

Some pit town in pennsylvania was "promoted" by GWBush as "alternative energy".

The catch was at the end of the report where it was mentioned that in 3 years (after loads more r&d and investment etc) the plant would yield the equivalent of 5000 barrels of oil. 5000 for 3 years work!!!

I'd get more energy from mowing my lawn and burning grass clippings for 3 years.

Sorry to all you "believers" but this is total bs.

I understand if you are just stock market players in it for a short term buck - but, please, dont represent your personal financial interests as the salvation of the western worlds energy crisis.

If you do, I'll continue to shoot you down at every opportunity.

There is no "energy-solution" in coal.

There may be a few short-term bucks but thats it.

Anything else is just ramping shares (which gives this site a bad name and attracts the type of money-grubbing morons that caused these problems in the first place).

The mods should be on this.

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No its called ramping.

There was a report on Channel4 or BBC2 last night about this "clean coal" nonsense.

Some pit town in pennsylvania was "promoted" by GWBush as "alternative energy".

The catch was at the end of the report where it was mentioned that in 3 years (after loads more r&d and investment etc) the plant would yield the equivalent of 5000 barrels of oil. 5000 for 3 years work!!!

I'd get more energy from mowing my lawn and burning grass clippings for 3 years.

Sorry to all you "believers" but this is total bs.

I understand if you are just stock market players in it for a short term buck - but, please, dont represent your personal financial interests as the salvation of the western worlds energy crisis.

If you do, I'll continue to shoot you down at every opportunity.

There is no "energy-solution" in coal.

There may be a few short-term bucks but thats it.

Anything else is just ramping shares (which gives this site a bad name and attracts the type of money-grubbing morons that caused these problems in the first place).

The mods should be on this.

We should also close the threads suggesting gold is a good investment as it is just a short term and highly volatile commodity. Why not include banks and silver too, or perhaps anything about which anyone may be enthusiastic about. Should the mods rename the category, "Suggestions for investment" rather than "Investment in General." While we are at it we might want to censor the Bulls for "ramping"/suggesting BTLs and houses are good investments. Perhaps anyone with any kind of opinion as to the value of anything should be censored?

After all aren't all investors in property "money grubbing morons?" I would have thought someone with socialist leanings would have supported the miners getting their pits back? I certainly do.

You may be anti-coal but there is enough research out there to shoot you down as the links above demonstrate.

Perhaps your expert opinion would like to comment on the article in the Scotsman highlighted below which refers to the new technology that you may not have been keeping up to date with:

Energy review opens door for revival of coal, claims minister

Tue 24 Jan 2006

GERRI PEEV

POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT
MINISTERS yesterday paved the way for a "renaissance" of the coal industry as they highlighted the risks of putting Britain at the mercy of unpredictable foreign regimes for energy supplies.
New "very exciting" technology would kick-start the beleaguered coal sector 20 years after it was wound down by the Thatcher government.
Ageing nuclear and coal stations producing a third of the country's power supplies would be phased out by 2020.
Mr Johnson published a consultation document which he said served as a "wake-up call".
Coal would play a more important role in the review than it did a few years ago because of the emergence of clean coal technology, which would fuel a "renaissance" for the industry, he said.
David Hamilton, the Labour MP for Midlothian and a former miner, welcomed the government's positive stance on coal. "I'm very pleased that the clean coal technology which I have been highlighting for some time now seem like realistic proposals," he said. "The important thing is that from today, all the options are on the table."

http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=1171&id=115122006

Wed 25 Jan 2006

WORRIED about rising oil prices or the Russians turning off the gas? Then try coal. After 20 years in which Britain wrote off the black stuff as Arthur Scargill's legacy, and the UK power industry made a "dash for gas", coal is due for a major comeback. So far, the energy debate in the UK has centred on renewables versus nuclear power. However, coal is far cheaper than both and has the added advantage of being on our doorstep - dig a hole practically anywhere in Central Belt Scotland and you will find the stuff.
In the UK - contrary to what most people probably think - coal still accounts for roughly a third of electricity generation. We use about 60 million tons of coal a year in Britain, three quarters of which is burned to generate electricity. Around 25 million tons of this coal is still produced locally, with 12.5 million tons coming from deep-mined production in England; the rest is opencast.
For the record, clean coal is no longer an oxymoron. A host of new technologies is now available to reduce or eliminate and other pollutants emitted when burning coal. And guess where they are making this technology? Here in Scotland.
Mitsui Babcock, which employs 1,000 workers at Renfrew, is Britain's sole surviving manufacturer of steam-generation equipment. It has pioneered the development of new "super critical" boilers. These work by raising the pressure and temperature of steam to super levels, making more electricity from less coal, thus reducing emissions.
These plants are also designed to mix coal with biomass, producing a reduction of 40 per cent in conventional greenhouse gas emissions.

http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=1171&id=120772006

The Australians see the wisdom in new coal technology:

THE Federal Government will put $2.2 million towards the development of a coal-cleaning technology.
Environment Minister Ian Campbell said the mechanical thermal expression (MTE) pilot plant, which is based on the concept of pre-drying coal before it goes into boilers, would be built at the Loy Yang power plant in Victoria.
"This project illustrates the Australian Government's commitment to developing
new, clean technologies
to reduce the greenhouse impact of meeting our energy needs," Senator Campbell said in a statement.

http://finance.news.com.au/story/0,10166,1...0-31037,00.html

My case rests.

Edited by Realistbear

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Funny that.

If the scotsman reported house prices were rising you and everyone else here would jump down their throats wailing about VI spin and biased reporting.

This is just a puff-piece written by a Scots Nationalist. Fair play though, got no probs with that. But representing this as some sort of relevation or energy revolution is simply crazy.

"We use about 60 million tons of coal a year in Britain" - didnt someone say there were 300million tonnes still in Britain? So thats 5 years supply then...

"producing a reduction of 40 per cent in conventional greenhouse gas emissions." Yes but not actual gas emmissions. Further, neither burning coal with biomass nor super-heating steam is a radical scientific breakthrough.

"I would have thought someone with socialist leanings would have supported the miners getting their pits back?"

I would prefer that these people had jobs for life - rather than just jobs part of the economic cycle.

Again, how does it replace plastics? Power airplanes?

It doesnt. Its a nice short term price spike from which some may benefit.

I think people are grasping at straws here.....

But please Feed my head RB - I dont see how this can work. (other than as a short term share play)

(Enjoying the debate though!)

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


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