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Property owners' £2.3tn windfall 'has created huge inequality gap'

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On ‎20‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 9:04 AM, TheCountOfNowhere said:

Ignore

why...doesn't this article get to the heart of the injustice arising from policy...?  More folk need to read this, understand the implications and be angry.

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3 hours ago, Wayward said:

why...doesn't this article get to the heart of the injustice arising from policy...?  More folk need to read this, understand the implications and be angry.

Don't disagree with the article which refers to the 2.3 billion printy bonanza occurring in the 90s and noughties.

Well to be more precise a tripling of equity between 1997-2007. Now Guardian readers under whose watch was that?

Edited by crashmonitor

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1 hour ago, stormymonday_2011 said:

All predicated on rising property prices.

If they crash then most of that 2.3 trillion 'wealth' simply disappears

I find it difficult to understand on what basis this 'wealth ' really exists. It's not like oil reserves that can be sold. These valuations only exist on very tiny transaction level , any meaningful attempt at value realisation and it all comes crashing down.

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1 hour ago, Wayward said:

I find it difficult to understand on what basis this 'wealth ' really exists. It's not like oil reserves that can be sold. These valuations only exist on very tiny transaction level , any meaningful attempt at value realisation and it all comes crashing down.

The capital doesn't exist - or, as you say, cannot be realised. However the yield can be real: high house prices keeping workers out of ownership allows their productive efforts to be farmed for rent.

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14 hours ago, crashmonitor said:

Don't disagree with the article which refers to the 2.3 billion printy bonanza occurring in the 90s and noughties.

Well to be more precise a tripling of equity between 1997-2007. Now Guardian readers under whose watch was that?

Yes, I'm pretty certain Hague, IDS, Howard or Cameron wouldn't have done the same. 7 years of pro HPI Tory bull sh1t and yet We still endure these comments...

partisan politics is part of the problem. I know you like to have a pop at every opportunity, but you're starting to sound one eyed.

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14 hours ago, stormymonday_2011 said:

All predicated on rising property prices.

If they crash then most of that 2.3 trillion 'wealth' simply disappears

Magical money to pay future living costs that genuine hard work no longer can or will.

12 hours ago, Toast said:

The capital doesn't exist - or, as you say, cannot be realised. However the yield can be real: high house prices keeping workers out of ownership allows their productive efforts to be farmed for rent.

Creation of magic money from debt to suck rent money from real workers.

46 minutes ago, PopGun said:

Yes, I'm pretty certain Hague, IDS, Howard or Cameron wouldn't have done the same. 7 years of pro HPI Tory bull sh1t and yet We still endure these comments...

partisan politics is part of the problem. I know you like to have a pop at every opportunity, but you're starting to sound one eyed.

All the political parties as they stand would have done exactly the same.....the fact that land and building HPI has done well tells the people the real economy is doing magically and magnificently well.

 

Just realised, think they are trying to say something.;)

3500.jpg?w=620&q=20&auto=format&usm=12&f

Edited by winkie

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2 hours ago, PopGun said:

Yes, I'm pretty certain Hague, IDS, Howard or Cameron wouldn't have done the same. 7 years of pro HPI Tory bull sh1t and yet We still endure these comments...

partisan politics is part of the problem. I know you like to have a pop at every opportunity, but you're starting to sound one eyed.

I agree politicians are to blame and yes may be the Tories would have done the same. Labour put prices up 200% ( tripling) and the Tories ( unlike in previous cycles) put props under the rise. Prices have risen 22% against 22% Rpi....ie. keeping the status quo. Worse in the south, with falling prices in real terms in the north.

 I'm  quite disenchanted with all parties. And no other poster has been more vigorous in wanting to see market discovery. 

Yet I have to constantly put up with this nonsense that we got where we are recently from posters on here or that it was something to do with deregulation in the 80s when house prices hit a post war low in 1996.

Edited by crashmonitor

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3 hours ago, PopGun said:

Yes, I'm pretty certain Hague, IDS, Howard or Cameron wouldn't have done the same. 7 years of pro HPI Tory bull sh1t and yet We still endure these comments...

partisan politics is part of the problem. I know you like to have a pop at every opportunity, but you're starting to sound one eyed.

Difference is you expect the Tories to screw over the working class. Labour shouldn't be doing that though.

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On 22/06/2017 at 10:55 AM, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

Difference is you expect the Tories to screw over the working class. Labour shouldn't be doing that though.

Ha true enough

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On 22/06/2017 at 8:48 AM, crashmonitor said:

I agree politicians are to blame and yes may be the Tories would have done the same. Labour put prices up 200% ( tripling) and the Tories ( unlike in previous cycles) put props under the rise. Prices have risen 22% against 22% Rpi....ie. keeping the status quo. Worse in the south, with falling prices in real terms in the north.

 I'm  quite disenchanted with all parties. And no other poster has been more vigorous in wanting to see market discovery. 

Yet I have to constantly put up with this nonsense that we got where we are recently from posters on here or that it was something to do with deregulation in the 80s when house prices hit a post war low in 1996.

 

There's many factors over many decades, so  agree trying point to any single issue under any particular government is counterproductive.

Blair always will be Maggies greatest achievement and legacy, to the detriment of everyone else.

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On 22 June 2017 at 10:55 AM, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

Difference is you expect the Tories to screw over the working class. Labour shouldn't be doing that though.

I agree. I know Corbyn (marmite) brings some variance between the right and left, so this quote is dated. 90's and Noughtues politics best summarised by Stewart Lee (known by all us middle class guardian reading lefties)  

Stewart Lee  "In the 1980s the Labour Party believed that the poor, who did not deserve to be poor; should be helped by the rich, who did not deserve to be rich. Meanwhile, the Conservatives thought that the poor, who deserved to be poor; should not be helped by the rich, who deserved to be rich. And that is the 1980s explained. It's very different today, isn't it? Today, (this quote is a few years old...so pre Corbyn) both the main parties believe that the poor should be tied up in a bin-bag and thrown into a canal. The Conservatives, to be fair to them; at least had the guts to look as if they mean that."

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I'm constantly explaining to people that all politicians are in this together. Blaming either party is partisan politics not backed up by the evidence. 

Dumping house prices may be the right thing to do but it's potentially political suicide too. Can it be done slowly/safely and in a way which gets more houses on the market? Volumes are so low it's crazy, partly because properties sold for BTL are held on to for pensions etc. 

Edited by miggy

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This is why we need people in power that aren't politicians. Those that will make decisions based upon facts and the right thing to do, not based upon will I get to keep my job in a few years as this is all I know.

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Personally I think some of you are missing the bigger picture. None of this is really in the hands of politicians. You can blame the right, or blame the left, but either way their hands are forced by the debts of history and the the continuing unfolding of the global technological economy, where hundreds of nations are now competing for the wealth creators and business.

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20 minutes ago, miggy said:

Blaming either party is partisan politics not backed up by the evidence. 

I can recall Sarah Teather for the LibDems being interviewed on TV roughly around 2006 time on College Green being asked directly "do you want house prices to fall?" She was one of the youngest MPs at the time, being in her early thirties, and she could only bring herself to say "I want house prices to neither fall nor rise." She baulked at her opportunity, even though houses were mentally expensive even then. So, it does seem, all parties are probably complicit in this, probably because it would be a seat-losing thing to say. I wonder what an anonymous poll of MPs would reveal? 

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7 hours ago, satch said:

You don't need a poll, many of them own BTL in their own name (I suspect many others are held by wives and partners and so no need to list on the register of interests) plus others such as Hammond make their money in property. All housing policies all the schemes are aimed at increasing prices and using taxpayer funds to make them 'affordable'. Even Labour MPs are BTL LLs, David Lammy has BTL in Tottenham and while he pontificates on the housing crisis he directly contributes to the problem.

I know. In the New Labour era, Michael Meacher, the late Labour MP around Oldham, was exposed as having nine properties---three for his own use, and, of course, there is the great AB with nearer thirty. I saw a figure on here stating 1/3 of MPs were rent extractors, but  there must be a level of house price where even these people think "this has become insane"...I was wondering what some MPs might really think but couldn't voice. At least Michael Meacher once proposed the prevention of people from owning second homes in some areas like Cornwall, so that the locals weren't pushed out by deeper pocketed city types.

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