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iamnumerate

Without more houses, tomorrow belongs to Labour

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The future belongs to Labour because by-and-large they have the soundest economic ideas. The globalised, deregulated laissez faire ideology of Thatcher and Reagan had been sickening for years before failing irrevocably in 2008. Unprecedented efforts by the world's central bankers (free market true believers all) to resuscitate it have also failed. The economic slump which the UK finds itself intractably mired some nine years later is a consequence of that failure, a crisis of private sector debt serviceability following forty years of reckless and irresponsible credit creation (aka financialisation). The only route to sustainable recovery is a permanent reduction in private sector debt/GDP (below 100%) which will may still be accomplished in an orderly fashion by counter-cyclical Keynesian debt substitution but time is running out. 

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8 hours ago, zugzwang said:

The future belongs to Labour because by-and-large they have the soundest economic ideas. The globalised, deregulated laissez faire ideology of Thatcher and Reagan had been sickening for years before failing irrevocably in 2008. Unprecedented efforts by the world's central bankers (free market true believers all) to resuscitate it have also failed. The economic slump which the UK finds itself intractably mired some nine years later is a consequence of that failure, a crisis of private sector debt serviceability following forty years of reckless and irresponsible credit creation (aka financialisation). The only route to sustainable recovery is a permanent reduction in private sector debt/GDP (below 100%) which will may still be accomplished in an orderly fashion by counter-cyclical Keynesian debt substitution but time is running out. 

The UK was the bets Ive knowin from 92-00, all on Clarkes economic plans.

Low costs, high employment.

Then Brown fcked it up with a massive credit bubble and massive public sector splurge.

The globalism thang is more of Blair thing.

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8 hours ago, zugzwang said:

The future belongs to Labour because by-and-large they have the soundest economic ideas. The globalised, deregulated laissez faire ideology of Thatcher and Reagan had been sickening for years before failing irrevocably in 2008. Unprecedented efforts by the world's central bankers (free market true believers all) to resuscitate it have also failed. The economic slump which the UK finds itself intractably mired some nine years later is a consequence of that failure, a crisis of private sector debt serviceability following forty years of reckless and irresponsible credit creation (aka financialisation). The only route to sustainable recovery is a permanent reduction in private sector debt/GDP (below 100%) which will may still be accomplished in an orderly fashion by counter-cyclical Keynesian debt substitution but time is running out. 

Morning Jeremy, how's things in sunny Islington this morning?

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8 hours ago, zugzwang said:

The future belongs to Labour because by-and-large they have the soundest economic ideas. The globalised, deregulated laissez faire ideology of Thatcher and Reagan had been sickening for years before failing irrevocably in 2008. Unprecedented efforts by the world's central bankers (free market true believers all) to resuscitate it have also failed. The economic slump which the UK finds itself intractably mired some nine years later is a consequence of that failure, a crisis of private sector debt serviceability following forty years of reckless and irresponsible credit creation (aka financialisation). The only route to sustainable recovery is a permanent reduction in private sector debt/GDP (below 100%) which will may still be accomplished in an orderly fashion by counter-cyclical Keynesian debt substitution but time is running out. 

I have seen our future - and it doesn't work

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-latin-america-40130224/venezuela-s-child-malnutrition-crisis-grows

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Just now, jonb2 said:

I too have seen an alternative future, that does not work either:

http://www.alternet.org/drugs/heroin-poverty-politics-rural-america

A) It is still better than Venezuela these places have problems with obesity while in Venezuela only the Government suffer from having too much to eat.

B') Fortunately it is not a binary choice being Venezuela or the US. 

FWIW I don't like the Tories, HTB was a mistake although unlike Blair they leveled the playing field a bit with S24 and stamp duty changes.  However Teresa May has never said we should be like the US - Jeremy Castro has said we should be like Venezuela - that is is the key difference.

Therefore although I found your link interesting, it is a classic example of non sequitur - unless May has said overnight that she wants us to be like the Appalachians - and please let me know if she has said that.

 

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The situation in Venezuala is at least in part the aggressive policies headed by the CIA and their Saudi allies. 

By all means let's see if socialism fails everywhere, but the US goes out of it's way to fck up every country that even dares to find a different route to good ol' raw free-market capitalism. Then points it's finger and shouts 'There, that's your alternative, now be grateful for the shit you've got'.

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2 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

Therefore although I found your link interesting, it is a classic example of non sequitur - unless May has said overnight that she wants us to be like the Appalachians - and please let me know if she has said that.

Iam, I understand your point now. I am just sick of the partisan arguments, believing as I do the current UK political system is well beyond its sell-by date.

My stance is that Amercian big business is the worst enemy of the common man world wide. My recent trip to LA took me to the east side, Skid Row IOW - I have never seen anything like it in Europe. Appalling and many more white faces thatn the usual stereotyping implies.

I said on the Brexit thread that the EU is better than the American system IMO. Greed in this country would have the Blackrocks of this world paying favours to a lot more influencers if there was no counter-balance to the EU. We would just go FULL AMERICA. Which is why I see so many rabid right wingers with immeasurable wealth in support of it - they want to pig at the money fountain without interference.

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1 hour ago, spyguy said:

The UK was the bets Ive knowin from 92-00, all on Clarkes economic plans.

Low costs, high employment.

Then Brown fcked it up with a massive credit bubble and massive public sector splurge.

The globalism thang is more of Blair thing.

Are you kidding!? 

We're still living with the consequence of the terrible economic decisions made in the 80s and 90s.

The deregulation of the banking sector, invention of buy-to-let, the sale of council housing, turning Halifax and northern rock into banks.

Policy takes years to have an impact.  We're still seeing fall out from the partition of Ireland and the First World War.

If you were born after the arrival of neoliberalism, about 1979, you are screwed now.  

Born before, and you get a lottery win from the house, you get a lottery win from the pension and you get to tell young people that there's no magic money tree.  

So that's the long term legacy of neoliberalism, not the short term impact of Osborn or Blair alone.

Oh, and Major signed Maastricht, and tried to join the Euro. Massive ******ing globalist.

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1 minute ago, jonb2 said:

Iam, I understand your point now. I am just sick of the partisan arguments, believing as I do the current UK political system is well beyond its sell-by date.

My stance is that Amercian big business is the worst enemy of the common man world wide. My recent trip to LA took me to the east side, Skid Row IOW - I have never seen anything like it in Europe. Appalling and many more white faces thatn the usual stereotyping implies.

I said on the Brexit thread that the EU is better than the American system IMO. Greed in this country would have the Blackrocks of this world paying favours to a lot more influencers if there was no counter-balance to the EU. We would just go FULL AMERICA. Which is why I see so many rabid right wingers with immeasurable wealth in support of it - they want to pig at the money fountain without interference.

We were heading towards a US credit system long time ago...  the 52nd state fast approaches... the country is nearing bankruptcy 

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3 minutes ago, Maynardgravy said:

The situation in Venezuala is at least in part the aggressive policies headed by the CIA and their Saudi allies. 

By all means let's see if socialism fails everywhere, but the US goes out of it's way to fck up every country that even dares to find a different route to good ol' raw free-market capitalism. Then points it's finger and shouts 'There, that's your alternative, now be grateful for the shit you've got'.

I think the Saudis reduced oil to hurt Russia and Shale Oil producers not Venezuela - btw Oil is still more expensive in real terms than when Chavez won power.

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1 minute ago, DrBuyToLeech said:

Are you kidding!? 

We're still living with the consequence of the terrible economic decisions made in the 80s and 90s.

The deregulation of the banking sector, invention of buy-to-let, the sale of council housing, turning Halifax and northern rock into banks.

Policy takes years to have an impact.  We're still seeing fall out from the partition of Ireland and the First World War.

If you were born after the arrival of neoliberalism, about 1979, you are screwed now.  

Born before, and you get a lottery win from the house, you get a lottery win from the pension and you get to tell young people that there's no magic money tree.  

So that's the long term legacy of neoliberalism, not the short term impact of Osborn or Blair alone.

Oh, and Major signed Maastricht, and tried to join the Euro. Massive ******ing globalist.

I agree although tax credits, mass immigration etc under Labour also helped screw things up. 

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5 minutes ago, DrBuyToLeech said:

So that's the long term legacy of neoliberalism

Dr BTL, totally agree with this. Everybody these days needs someone to blame. The core of the problem is above and started with Wall Street and the bankers - these people are still here today and more powerful. Blair, Brown, Bush, Obama, Trump are just emblems to keep our eyes off those we should really blame.

Edited by jonb2
spelling

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8 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

Iam, I understand your point now. I am just sick of the partisan arguments, believing as I do the current UK political system is well beyond its sell-by date.

My stance is that Amercian big business is the worst enemy of the common man world wide. My recent trip to LA took me to the east side, Skid Row IOW - I have never seen anything like it in Europe. Appalling and many more white faces thatn the usual stereotyping implies.

I said on the Brexit thread that the EU is better than the American system IMO. Greed in this country would have the Blackrocks of this world paying favours to a lot more influencers if there was no counter-balance to the EU. We would just go FULL AMERICA. Which is why I see so many rabid right wingers with immeasurable wealth in support of it - they want to pig at the money fountain without interference.

Well I don't support the current system.  I don't want us to be like the US and would attack May if she said we would be.

However Corbyn has said we should be like Venezuela - an even more scary prospect.

I dislike the EU because I don't like EU citizens being given housing that I cannot afford.

Edited by iamnumerate

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1 hour ago, spyguy said:

The UK was the bets Ive knowin from 92-00, all on Clarkes economic plans.

Low costs, high employment.

Then Brown fcked it up with a massive credit bubble and massive public sector splurge.

The globalism thang is more of Blair thing.

Agreed... post ERM was a clearcut fresh start, it worked well for those who were on average incomes of £16,000 salaries, could buy a 1/2 bedroom flat in ealing for £120k (3.5 times your earnings).... Now an average £30,000 salary...... not much and working beyond retirement.

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2 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

Dr BTL, totally agree with this. Everybody these days needs someone to blame. The core of the probelm is above and started with Wall Street and the bankers - these people are still here today and more powerful. Blair, Brown, Bush, Obama, Trump are just emblems to keep our eyes of whom we should really blame.

Are they so powerful?  Lehman Brothers was not that powerful.

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1 minute ago, jonb2 said:

Goldman Sachs??

Did they want Trump elected and Brexit?  I doubt it. I think the mess we are in is due to over centralized political systems (UK,US and EU) and incompetent politicians

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3 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

Well I don't support the current system.  I don't want us to be like the US and would attack May if she said we would be.

However Corbyn has said we should be like Venezuela - an even more scary prospect.

Did he actually say that? Seemed to be a eulogy to Chavez personally rather than saying he admired Venezuela in the current state. I sound like a stuck record but given a choice between Scandinavian policies and the UK policies of the last X years, which would you prefer? Because Corbyn is more aligned to Scandinavian policies than anything else.

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10 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

I agree although tax credits, mass immigration etc under Labour also helped screw things up. 

Sure Iam - but I think everything happens for a reason. Bothe tax credits and cheap labour suit the big corporations which in turn, suits Wall Street and its claw-grabbing operators.

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17 hours ago, iamnumerate said:

From Capex - of course voting Labour because of the housing shortage is like voting UKIP because you love the EU.

https://capx.co/without-more-houses-tomorrow-belongs-to-labour/

Of course? Why 'of course'? You're suggesting that, if Labour had got in, the housing crisis would have got worse? Why? How?!

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Just now, dugsbody said:

Did he actually say that? Seemed to be a eulogy to Chavez personally rather than saying he admired Venezuela in the current state. I sound like a stuck record but given a choice between Scandinavian policies and the UK policies of the last X years, which would you prefer? Because Corbyn is more aligned to Scandinavian policies than anything else.

He said

Quote

Thanks Hugo Chavez for showing that the poor matter and wealth can be shared. He made massive contributions to Venezuela & a very wide world

Another Lab MP said that Venezuela shows us an alternative.

http://labour-uncut.co.uk/2016/05/25/the-corbynite-take-on-venezuela-tells-you-all-you-need-to-know-about-the-leaderships-judgement/

 

I think that it gives the impression that he wants to copy their example

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