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TheCountOfNowhere

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It's definitely a tragedy!

But what will be the after-effect on London apartments prices? About 60k to be finished soon, not all of them are in tower blocks of fire hazard, but the perception of being a potential risk.

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17 minutes ago, rollover said:

 

It's definitely a tragedy!

But what will be the after-effect on London apartments prices? About 60k to be finished soon, not all of them are in tower blocks of fire hazard, but the perception of being a potential risk.

Yes, total tragedy, but it does show the folly of building massive tower blocks for people to live in.

Less people and better housing is what I want the politicians to deluver.


Are they listening, are they f**k.

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Tower blocks are supposed to be constructed in such a way as to prevent the spread of fire like this. The core design is supposed to prevent spread of fire from one flat to the next, or from one flat into a communal area. 

Looking at some of the videos, you can see the fire streaking up the sides of the buildings. This reminds me of the massive fire at the Salafa tower in Dubai, which was traced to the use of highly flammable exterior cladding. 

There are regulations about the use of cladding in buildings in the UK, but who knows if they were followed, or if the products were genuine (fake cladding materials have been detected in other countries, and your average worker wouldn't know the difference) 

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Well plenty of cladding fires have happened around the world in tower blocks... no one seems to have done much about it so far... I would expect the government to try and whitewash this tragedy both to protect Kensington & Chelsea tories as well as their building contractor / insurance friends from the fallout.

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Even though this was an old building, its recent refurbishment should have brought is fire protection up to date. The speed at which it spread through all of the fire doors and various layers of protection raises so many questions. I understand that the alarms didn't even go off. 

Who now wants to buy in a high rise? No matter how modern, once you are above the reach of the ladders, you are reliant on the will of the Gods if a fire gets out of control. 

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Depending on what happened there could be a raft of new regulations that need to be met. This would mean higher service charges, or large refurbishment bills for the owners. It all adds costs and risk to owning a flat in a large block.

 

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4 hours ago, hayder said:

Well plenty of cladding fires have happened around the world in tower blocks... no one seems to have done much about it so far... I would expect the government to try and whitewash this tragedy both to protect Kensington & Chelsea tories as well as their building contractor / insurance friends from the fallout.

They'll doubtlessly slime and sleaze around it as much as possible, but this dreadful tragedy has all the trappings of a "Black Swan" event for the London housing and property market, a big prod that's going to send everything tumbling over for years to come.

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7 hours ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

Would you want to live in a tower block ?

Poor b*ggers didnt stand a chance.

Terrible tragedy, loss of life that need not have happened.....was there a sprinkler system? ....old block, flat on flat on flat, refurbished looks but safety that costs you cannot see... great way of housing people if  money spent on protecting them.....just saying.;)

 

Said 400 to 600 people sleeping there last night.....I fear many lives might have been lost, hope wrong...not good.:(

Edited by winkie

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Making temporary 1970's build 20 year life-span cheap substandard housing last more than twice as long as designed, the older generations have a lot to answer for by preventing building to line their own pockets. You voted in the politicians, you spent your 'free money' equity... I mean no-one gets hurt do they? it's just free money isn't it?

will they knock down the old tower blocks? nope. will they build more council houses or any affordable housing? Nope. 

these lost lives won't change anything. It will be forgotten in a week. Houses will still go up, HPI forever. 

corbyn is the only one who could speak out and be listened to, but even he himself has to keep quite as he knows he has to bribe the greedy old people. 

what a country this is. When I'm in power I will force the old to live in newly build FTB housing, force standards up. 

i lived in a similar tower block in Birmingham 'Stafford tower', top floor. I know how long it takes in the dead of the night how long it takes to get down so many stairs when everyone else is also leaving, let alone thick smoke. 

these buildings are a stain on our national conceious. nothing will be done. 

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If true, this says a lot about the messed up, aspirational London property market and how it was actually a reason the cladding was added in the first place...properly foooked up IMO

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/britain/grenfell-tower-cladding-that-may-have-led-to-fire-was-chosen-to-improve-appearance-of-flats-from-luxury-homes-nearby-35827260.html

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Theresa May's chief of staff who received tower block safety review must be questioned

The Labour leader said: 'Obviously ministers that served and received those reports must be questioned. Mr Corbyn’s comments came after it emerged Gavin Barwell, the former housing minister who was recently appointed as the Prime Minister’s adviser, failed to give the green light to a fire safety review he had received during his tenure in Whitehall. 

The fire expert behind the report calling for the desperately needed safety appraisal, said he had spoken with Mr Barwell earlier this year and the then-minister told him no decision on the review had been taken. 

Former chief fire officer Ronnie King said: “Mr Barwell said he was still looking at it and was preparing to meet with the All-Party group. That's when the election was called and the meeting never happened.” Independent

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3 hours ago, ManVsRecession said:

Depending on what happened there could be a raft of new regulations that need to be met. This would mean higher service charges, or large refurbishment bills for the owners. It all adds costs and risk to owning a flat in a large block.

 

I can see plenty of legal challenges to costs if they have already contributed to a fire hazard refurb.

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2 hours ago, jiltedjen said:

Making temporary 1970's build 20 year life-span cheap substandard housing last more than twice as long as designed, the older generations have a lot to answer for by preventing building to line their own pockets. You voted in the politicians, you spent your 'free money' equity... I mean no-one gets hurt do they? it's just free money isn't it?

will they knock down the old tower blocks? nope. will they build more council houses or any affordable housing? Nope. 

these lost lives won't change anything. It will be forgotten in a week. Houses will still go up, HPI forever. 

corbyn is the only one who could speak out and be listened to, but even he himself has to keep quite as he knows he has to bribe the greedy old people. 

what a country this is. When I'm in power I will force the old to live in newly build FTB housing, force standards up. 

i lived in a similar tower block in Birmingham 'Stafford tower', top floor. I know how long it takes in the dead of the night how long it takes to get down so many stairs when everyone else is also leaving, let alone thick smoke. 

these buildings are a stain on our national conceious. nothing will be done. 

These flats weren't built to last 20 years they were supposed to be the future and last through the 21st century. Not to be confused with post war pre-fabs they were the Utopian future forced on us by architects and planners but became hell.

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from a very well informed civil engineer family member, he 100% agrees that the life-span of these type of building was originally 20-30 years. They were built cheap and fast, they may of been the future. But a future where we actually replaced building every 20-30 years with better built buildings.

The blame is not from the post war builders, the buildings have long lived past their design life. The blame lies with the following generation (boomers) who never actually replaced these buildings. 

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1 minute ago, jiltedjen said:

from a very well informed civil engineer family member, he 100% agrees that the life-span of these type of building was originally 20-30 years. They were built cheap and fast, they may of been the future. But a future where we actually replaced building every 20-30 years with better built buildings.

The blame is not from the post war builders, the buildings have long lived past their design life. The blame lies with the following generation (boomers) who never actually replaced these buildings. 

Well if that is the case that seems very wasteful when bricks and mortar lasts centuries.

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1 hour ago, deadlyavenger said:

If true, this says a lot about the messed up, aspirational London property market and how it was actually a reason the cladding was added in the first place...properly foooked up IMO

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/britain/grenfell-tower-cladding-that-may-have-led-to-fire-was-chosen-to-improve-appearance-of-flats-from-luxury-homes-nearby-35827260.html

Recent events will certainly make me pay more attention to history and fire exits of any property I'll live/work in the future.

Never crossed my mind before, always seen fire drills as somewhat unnecessary box ticking exercise.

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the tower blocks were built post war, cheap and looked like 'progress' as the alternative was terraced houses, which were knocked down.

The 1970's planners and builders had their hearts in the right place, stuck lots of these blocks up, and have people such extreme luxuries such as running water and indoor toilettes. At the rate of improvement in housing back then it was reasonable to expect houses to get bigger and new places built every 20 years. The 1960's tower block i lived in, that even had selling original selling points such as:

PLUG SOCKET FOR BEDSIDE LAMP!
MIRROR! (small face mirror)

of course the greed of the 80's led to the 90's the 00's and the teenies. And the blocks were never replaced. papering over the cracks with cladding is a pretty crap approach. 

The concrete got damp, the steel rods rusted and bleed. The crisp white, might of looked reasonable even close to their end of life date in the early 80's and 90's. now they are drab and grey. For these building to actually fall down would require something drastic, although it has happened before. But as we have seen they are not really fit for modern day, fire escapes etc. They are warn out, maintained by the lowest bidder. 

Banks dont like lending on tower blocks (buildings with a life less than 60 years left)

For a modern country these building are a bit of a joke, even the soviet flats in Berlin were far nicer. Whats worse is the new build blocks these days are built for investors not for people to actually live in, even worse built, would be surprised if the modern blocks can last more than 30 years in any kind of reasonable shape. 
 

Edited by jiltedjen

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For me this whole sad story is an allegory for the UK economy.

 

Cladding some clapped out building, just to make it look better from a distance, and even then being too cheap/unprofessional to find out if the cladding was genuinely fireproof.

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making sure you don't spoil the views for the uninhabitable flats nearby made purely for speculation. I am genuinely quite angry about it really. This really stinks. There is not really enough outrage about this. This should be a wake up call. But it wont be. HPI forever. 

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4 minutes ago, reddog said:

For me this whole sad story is an allegory for the UK economy.

 

Cladding some clapped out building, just to make it look better from a distance, and even then being too cheap/unprofessional to find out if the cladding was genuinely fireproof.

Yes that was my point reddog, just so those in the nearby £500k "executive" flats/shoeboxes don't have to look at an eyesore building, totally astonishing if true.

And yes sums up the whole mess in this country IMO

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20 minutes ago, jiltedjen said:



For a modern country these building are a bit of a joke, even the soviet flats in Berlin were far nicer. Whats worse is the new build blocks these days are built for investors not for people to actually live in, even worse built, would be surprised if the modern blocks can last more than 30 years in any kind of reasonable shape. 
 

I hooked up with a girl in Leipzig and got to go back to her place, a 1960s East German plattenbau (obviously spruced up with reunification money).  

 

Even with sex on my mind, I made a mental note that it was better built than the UK equivalent.  That's when you know you are thinking about HPC too much!

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Just looking at the coverage of this, it really is a tragedy. Its harrowing listening to it.

 

What strikes me tho is how few British people are there. Its like the tower block is somewhere in the middle east.

 

Its bizarre.

 

 

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