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An Irish Wall or a Brexit Fudge?

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49 minutes ago, John51 said:

Is it legally possible for Westminster to simply cut Northern Ireland loose? You're an independent country now NI, deal with it, you're no longer our problem.

Not sure, but partially achieved with the EVEL legislation. Actually EVEL causes a major issue for any Conservative and DUP negotiations. It basically blocks the Scots and NI representatives from dealing in English matters.

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3 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

Not sure, but partially achieved with the EVEL legislation. Actually EVEL causes a major issue for any Conservative and DUP negotiations. It basically blocks the Scots and NI representatives from dealing in English matters.

Ha.

So the ConDups will be down 23 votes on English Laws. 

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17 minutes ago, Peter Hun said:

Ha.

So the ConDups will be down 23 votes on English Laws. 

Yes, still a majority in England, but gives rebel Conservatives even more power and means fighting wars on 2 fronts for any May Government.

I can't see this lasting - it is paralysis.

Also if legislation applies to England and Wales, plus Scotland (which does happen)  and not Northern Ireland then there is no majority.

If I were May, I'd resign, let Corbyn have a go at forming a coalition and then have the Conservatives force an election.

Trouble is they are 6 points down!

Edited by Mikhail Liebenstein

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32 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

If I were May, I'd resign, let Corbyn have a go at forming a coalition and then have the Conservatives force an election.

Trouble is they are 6 points down!

Yes, its would be suicide, the Tory vote would go down due voters being pissed off with the mess and another election.

May has ******ed the Conservatives. And Brexit.

 

 

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On 2017-6-6 at 11:35 PM, Thorn said:

With businesses here waiting to see what will happen next, I think there doesn't seem to be a real appetite here in Ireland North or South for a Hard Border to go with a Hard Brexit. There has been no clarity so far from any of the political parties over here or from Westminster to describe what the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic will look like after Brexit. Currently there are no roadblocks, no checkpoints. Just the road signs change from miles to km. If there is to be no Hard Border (like the dark days of the Troubles- think Checkpoint Charlie), then a Soft Border could need negotiated and that could require a Brexit Fudge. 

There won't be a hard border. The ROI now has the EU minding it's back. Plus the UK government is weaker now than it has been in living memory.

UK & NI have everything to lose and nothing to gain...so perhaps a Brexit fudge.

Theresa May has sh1t on the rug and Brussels is going to wipe her face in it. Then the next PM, and the next.

Edited by cashinmattress

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9 hours ago, dugsbody said:

You guys are actually, truly, deluded when it comes to the EU. 

You mean the Pro-EU apologists are? The EU turned most of the sovereign parliamentary assemblies into virtual quislings quietly over decades. And NI was partially the product of European royalty machinations from the Continent.

Edited by Big Orange

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Just now, Big Orange said:

You mean the Pro-EU apologists are? The EU turned most of the sovereign parliamentary assemblies into virtual quislings quietly over decades.

No it didn't.

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Just now, dugsbody said:

No it didn't.

Why did they sign us in gradually, without decades of feedback and clarity? Why did Britain get the sharper end of the stick with many things? 

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https://www.executiveoffice-ni.gov.uk/sites/default/files/publications/execoffice/Letter to PM from FM %26 dFM.pdf

This was the joint position on Brexit of Foster and McGuinness as First Minister and Deputy First Minister in August.

Nothing I've read in the last few days suggests the DUP stance now is greatly different to the soft position outlined then.

Won't go down well with many Conservative MPs!

 

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33 minutes ago, White Craw said:

https://www.executiveoffice-ni.gov.uk/sites/default/files/publications/execoffice/Letter to PM from FM %26 dFM.pdf

This was the joint position on Brexit of Foster and McGuinness as First Minister and Deputy First Minister in August.

Nothing I've read in the last few days suggests the DUP stance now is greatly different to the soft position outlined then.

Won't go down well with many Conservative MPs!

 

The Mandate for a hard Brexit appears to have gone. If that means freedom of movement is retained to stay in the single Market then Brexit was pointless...we may as well grovel to get back in as a full player.

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2 hours ago, cashinmattress said:

Theresa May has sh1t on the rug and Brussels is going to wipe her face in it. Then the next PM, and the next.

And that's the type of organisation you want to remain a part of? Every day Remainers come up with more reasons to dislike the EU!

Edited by Riedquat

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I'm not sure TM really thought the people would actually think Brexit might improve their lot. I suspect she expected a stronger mandate for herself and her chums, not a citizen's revolt full of expectation. 

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Face it Brexit (involving leaving the single market) is over. 2 reasons

1  Ruth Davidson's new Scottish Tories would not accept it.

2 Many of the hardline Brexit Tories like IDS are now conscious their own seats are at risk if the government falls and there is another election this year

In short, the need to prevent Labour/Corbyn taking power, takes precedence over the Brexit gamble

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1 hour ago, crashmonitor said:

The Mandate for a hard Brexit appears to have gone. If that means freedom of movement is retained to stay in the single Market then Brexit was pointless...we may as well grovel to get back in as a full player.

100%

 

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3 hours ago, Riedquat said:

And that's the type of organisation you want to remain a part of? Every day Remainers come up with more reasons to dislike the EU!

Yes.

I'm not pro anything.

But know sh1te when i smell it.

Isolation is a bad thing...evident in your frame of mind surely.

TM & her potential NI puritan 17th century pedigreed orange freaks are in no position to steer these islands into a 'good deal' with the world's biggest economy...when we already had the best deal.

Why dont you emigrate Redq?

 

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12 hours ago, crashmonitor said:

The Mandate for a hard Brexit appears to have gone. If that means freedom of movement is retained to stay in the single Market then Brexit was pointless...we may as well grovel to get back in as a full player.

"Full".... one condition on any grovelling might be that we also join the Euro?

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1 hour ago, Democorruptcy said:

"Full".... one condition on any grovelling might be that we also join the Euro?

The only plus on that is that the Tories are going to want a structural deficit of about 5% to satisfy the electorate and Labour about 15%. Everybody wants jam today and permission to steal from the unborn. Under EU rules that shouldn't be allowed, didn't stop Greece on their borrowing root to destruction and 60% youth unemployment though.

 

Edited by crashmonitor

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10 hours ago, cashinmattress said:

Yes.

I'm not pro anything.

But know sh1te when i smell it.

Isolation is a bad thing...evident in your frame of mind surely.

TM & her potential NI puritan 17th century pedigreed orange freaks are in no position to steer these islands into a 'good deal' with the world's biggest economy...when we already had the best deal.

Why dont you emigrate Redq?

Why would I emigrate? If I didn't have any feeling for the UK I wouldn't get so worked up about people trying to screw it over, whether that's to the EU, to the banksters, to HPI, whoever. Your idea of the "best deal" might be some decent trade arrangements coupled with an awful lot of controlling baggage, it isn't mine (let me guess, you couldn't give a damn about anything as long as you think it brings some money your way?)

If you know sh1te when you smell it steer clear of the EU.

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7 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

Why would I emigrate? If I didn't have any feeling for the UK I wouldn't get so worked up about people trying to screw it over, whether that's to the EU, to the banksters, to HPI, whoever. Your idea of the "best deal" might be some decent trade arrangements coupled with an awful lot of controlling baggage, it isn't mine (let me guess, you couldn't give a damn about anything as long as you think it brings some money your way?)

If you know sh1te when you smell it steer clear of the EU.

So the EU is still the villain no matter what? You haven't put forward one rational point as to why being part of the EU has a negative effect on you...not one valid point in 1000's of posts.

It's just EU bad...and all of Westminster's failing are the EU's fault.

Are you pleased that TM will align her party with the Ku Klux Klan in orange garb?

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1 hour ago, cashinmattress said:

So the EU is still the villain no matter what? You haven't put forward one rational point as to why being part of the EU has a negative effect on you...not one valid point in 1000's of posts.

It's just EU bad...and all of Westminster's failing are the EU's fault.

Are you pleased that TM will align her party with the Ku Klux Klan in orange garb?

Since when have I said all of Westminster's failings are the EU's fault?

I suspect you're another one whose definition of "valid" is "agrees with my prejudices."

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1 hour ago, Thorn said:

 

The Irish government also raided the public sector pension fund to bailout the crooked banksters:

http://www.bluewaterfp.ie/financial-planning/government-cashes-in-our-pension-fund/

Never mind, future taxpaying citizens can stump up even more for public sector pensions because there sure as hell won't be any taxes coming in from AIB profits.

 

But, never mind, Ireland is so 'right on' with social issues so it's all good. :lol:  Truly a nation of people born for serfdom.

 

 

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