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Is May cleverly sabotaging Brexit?


Optobear
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57 minutes ago, tomandlu said:

I'm sorry, but this is nonsensical. Apart from anything else, there has been zero support for Corbyn from the media. Even the Grauniad spent column-miles sticking the knife in, and JC has always been lukewarm about the EU at best.

He's a decent man whose politics you don't like - nothing wrong with that. Why the compulsion to turn him into a lizard person?

I tend to agree that the big political beasts like Andrew Neal have given the left a harder time. I guess the behaviour of the Volvo Socialist millionaires from the Socialist Republic of Cambridge laughing with derision at Nuttall and Rudd and clapping with delight at everything Corbyn said balances things a bit.

Felt a bit like a Question Time. Guess the audience, meanwhile, don't realise how badly their behaviour plays to all but the party faithful. 

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5 hours ago, crashmonitor said:

Could backfire the Brits are for fair play. The audience were there for lynching Rudd and Nuttall. Shame on the polling organisation that chose this supposedly representative audience. 

Apparently the audience was carefully selected to mirror national opinion based upon the 2015 election result. 

If so and despite ranty Mail headlines I have no reason to believe it isn't, things are looking even worse for the Tories.

We may have a pissed off electorate that is determined to give the government a kicking irrespective of their policies.

 

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1 minute ago, fru-gal said:

Even if the Tories win (which is still most likely imo), the rise of Corbyn is a good thing as it means that the Tories know it is only a matter of time until the younger cohort are the main voters and that they will have to start introducing genuinely new policies to temp younger voters to vote for them. Corbyn and his ideas have the momentum (no pun intended) and the Tories are going to have to adapt to changing demographics pretty damn quickly.

Doesn't follow, as I've highlighted on other threads.  People get more Tory as they age (perhaps its the first sign of dementia).

Peter Hitchen the Daily Mail columnist used to be a Trot.

In fact, if we believe the propaganda about living longer, falling birth rates and the rest of it, the population should be more Tory in the future, not less.

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1 hour ago, olliegog said:

Sadly HPC which is usually a realistic forum has been infiltrated by ' left leaning JC supporting ' newbies. I suspect you are young and a labourite who swallows the guff about labour being for the many.

Sadly you assumption there is wrong. Forget about HPC members who generally have high IQ, even a lay man these days don't vote on what is told but what is felt by him on the daily basis be it in the workplace, commute, kids future etc., 

JC is getting popular just because he is able to talk the lay man's language. I believe that MSM is getting prepared as their internal report is showing the direction of the election.

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3 minutes ago, Gush said:

Sadly you assumption there is wrong. Forget about HPC members who generally have high IQ

That's what the MSE members say about themselves :lol:  And since they are the ones with all that tax free unearned equity in their 1 bed £400L london BTL flat, who are we to argue.

 

P.S. You might want to read this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

Let me know what side of the divide you think you're on.

 

Edited by TheCountOfNowhere
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7 hours ago, hotairmail said:

I think what are seen to be missteps derive from two things:

1. Her advisors seeking to take advantage of what seemed an unassailable position to make some unpopular commitments and make the country governable again.

2. That May naively wants to genuinely 'do the right thing' for the country as a whole if that means making unpopular decisions.

 

In hindsight, she should have just prioritised Brexit rather than looking too far forward.

 

I think the above is spot on , I am aware that the odds on he winning have changed a lot but the spread bet companies still have the tories on about 366 seats so a majority of about 80 https://www.sportingindex.com/spread-betting/politics/british/group_b.ebb77a08-5cd6-4e69-9096-cdc826441491/uk-general-election-seats-markets

 

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7 minutes ago, InvestmentQuestions said:

I think the above is spot on , I am aware that the odds on he winning have changed a lot but the spread bet companies still have the tories on about 366 seats so a majority of about 80 https://www.sportingindex.com/spread-betting/politics/british/group_b.ebb77a08-5cd6-4e69-9096-cdc826441491/uk-general-election-seats-markets

 

They called the EuRef too didnt they ?

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Just now, TheCountOfNowhere said:

They called the EuRef too didnt they ?

Well I am a natural conservative voter returning to the fold after Brxit .  The bookies have the conservatives as odds on to win , after that a coalition with parties that do not want Brexit and will do their best to stuff it up imho.    I think the inheritance tax policy was "the right thing" and has lost votes ,  I think ending the triple lock and only allowing winter fuel payments for the less well off gain , "the right thing" . A bit one nation tory  and reflective of a move to the centre ground .  The only reason I can think off for a socialsist fighting for the right to pass on a £1million house to their kids is pure opportunism 

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15 minutes ago, Gush said:

Sadly you assumption there is wrong. Forget about HPC members who generally have high IQ, even a lay man these days don't vote on what is told but what is felt by him on the daily basis be it in the workplace, commute, kids future etc., 

JC is getting popular just because he is able to talk the lay man's language. I believe that MSM is getting prepared as their internal report is showing the direction of the election.

I think there will be some big winners from a Labour victory such as students about to go to University and a few other select groups. It's going to cost big and the 50% rise in Corp tax will hit pension funds of those not lucky enough to have a final salary package in the public sector...ie. all the drones paying the tax to pay for the Socialist dream.  My take is it will be good for house prices as it will be the only safe form of Equity left .

A good result for retired maths teachers living in Cambridge with housing equity I would have thought.

 

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9 minutes ago, InvestmentQuestions said:

Well I am a natural conservative voter returning to the fold after Brxit .  The bookies have the conservatives as odds on to win , after that a coalition with parties that do not want Brexit and will do their best to stuff it up imho.    I think the inheritance tax policy was "the right thing" and has lost votes ,  I think ending the triple lock and only allowing winter fuel payments for the less well off gain , "the right thing" . A bit one nation tory  and reflective of a move to the centre ground .  The only reason I can think off for a socialsist fighting for the right to pass on a £1million house to their kids is pure opportunism 

Fair enough.

 

Just one question, are you happy to vote for a party that lied to get into power in 2010 and since has done nothing but make the poor poorer and lined the pockets of the rich ?

 

You are Boris Johnson and I claim my free box of hair dye.

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2 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

Fair enough.

 

Just one question, are you happy to vote for a party that lied to get into power in 2010 and since has done nothing but make the poor poorer and lined the pockets of the rich ?

 

You are Boris Johnson and I claim my free box of hair dye.

Its a continuation of the Blair & Brown roadshow...

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2 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

Fair enough.

 

Just one question, are you happy to vote for a party that lied to get into power in 2010 and since has done nothing but make the poor poorer and lined the pockets of the rich ?

 

You are Boris Johnson and I claim my free box of hair dye.

 I will reply more sensibly when I get back after my fortnightly visit to Weatherspoons but all politicians tell great big porkies .   When Vince Cambell was in the coalition he pointed out that it was only in the last 6 months of the labor government did the tax rate rise from 40% to 50% , most of the time the top rate was lower.    

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11 hours ago, LC1 said:

they suspect a massive economic crash is coming and want to be out of power when it does so they can claim it was Labour wot done it, and then be in power for at least a generation thereafter.

Except if Labour is in power we will get a better arrangement and there wont be an economic crash from Brexit.

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11 hours ago, Unbowed said:

I always thought they'd use delaying tactics, transitional arrangements etc. to avoid a full Brexit and then lose the election to a Lib\Lab coalition which would abort the process. Multi-nationals & Establishment happy, job done.

Of course bringing the election forward was a master stroke in achieving this. So yes Optobear, I think you may be onto something.

I think that is probably the best, and easiest ,explanation.

 

it is just soooo sh1te that you don't want to be holding it when it goes boom......kind of economic pass-the parcel,with embedded forfeits.

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3 hours ago, InvestmentQuestions said:

Well I am a natural conservative voter returning to the fold after Brxit .  The bookies have the conservatives as odds on to win , after that a coalition with parties that do not want Brexit and will do their best to stuff it up imho.    I think the inheritance tax policy was "the right thing" and has lost votes ,  I think ending the triple lock and only allowing winter fuel payments for the less well off gain , "the right thing" . A bit one nation tory  and reflective of a move to the centre ground .  The only reason I can think off for a socialsist fighting for the right to pass on a £1million house to their kids is pure opportunism 

I am a natural conservative too and I didn't like her manifesto one bit.WAY too much "government knows best,we'll deal with it for you"

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FWIW I think we wouldn't have to worry too much about things like winter fuel payments etc if the government would clear some of the pointless busy-bodying out of the way.

the magic number is government spending 35% or less of GDP- at present it's closer to 50%

 

someone posted a nice little stat on here a while back showing government spending v unemployment v GDP growth...it really is quite telling.

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May's gone into full submarine mode

BBC4 woman's hour tomorrow:

Quote

We also talk to Justine Greening about the Conservative Party's manifesto. Amber Rudd had been due to take part. Theresa May declined our earlier invitation.

 

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9 hours ago, olliegog said:

So I disagree with your view - how long do you think JC will last if he wins and how will the country afford his generous spending.   

 

Newsflash: The Conservatives have been the biggest borrowers over the last 70 years

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/03/13/the-conservatives-have-been-the-biggest-borrowers-over-the-last-70-years/

When they talk tax cuts what they mean is adding Debt

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On 01/06/2017 at 0:08 PM, Confusion of VIs said:

+1

Her career has been one of serial failure.

Her only real ability is the ability to always divert the blame for her failures onto someone else. She is now about to find out that's a lot more difficult when you have the number one job.

Add in her awkward personality and wooden presentation and you have a female less intelligent version of Gordon Brown.   

 

+100

Earlier she went through all the court process to prevent a Parliament vote on Article 50 (which she was told repeatedly she'd win anyway), knowing that she'd lose the court case.

This is a vanity election, and I suspect she will increase her majority - but not as much as she was hoping. She's been found out. Someone who fears holding debates with the likes of Corbyn and Nuttall, is hardly likely to be a top class negotiator with the EU - although of course it won't be her doing the negotiating, it'll be Davis or Johnson.

You know the country is heading for a bad ending when you start to see plebiscites and vanity elections on a regular basis. This does not look promising.

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