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26 minutes ago, spyguy said:

No.

Schools are employing about 30% more head than 20 years ago.

Teachers may be leaving but thatll be due to retirement.

There is no other job to go to for teachers - most have poor transferable skills and there are just no demand for the degrees most teachers have i.e. non vocational.

Im a governor. My experience of recruiting is typical - one place opens up and there are 10+ candidates. Thats not a market low on people.

 

Depends on the subject.

A Maths teacher post has been advertised since September 2016 at my school, still not filled. 

The school has had to use supply merge classes, and now teaching 62 children in “lecture” format.

They pay thousands in fees to advertise (TES a private company which rips off schools) and zero applications on many of the rounds

I know two teachers who have left to go abroad, and two Maths teachers who have gone off to do Accountacy/Acturial training.

south east is particularly bad for Maths, Physics and Chemistry.

Edited by mathschoc
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On 5/24/2017 at 9:27 PM, iamnumerate said:

I think Corbyn will take us to Venezuela 2.0 - I have put my name down on an allotment just in case he wins.  In a couple of year allotment gardeners will be able to have any woman they want if he wins - I am married so there will be no silver lining for me.

As you will have an allotment, your wife will not be available to other allotment gardeners. That could be considered a silver lining.

Also, she will be less likely to have a headache at bedtime. :)

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2 hours ago, BuyToLeech said:

Their pure forms are just fantasies. No one writes flaws into their Utopian fantasies. 

That’d be like an erotic fantasy where your imagined partner has an imagined headache. 

What I meant was what they both claim to deliver and how. The reality however is often a different outcome, mostly due to their wilful miss interpretation.

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2 hours ago, spyguy said:

No.

Schools are employing about 30% more head than 20 years ago.

Teachers may be leaving but thatll be due to retirement.

There is no other job to go to for teachers - most have poor transferable skills and there are just no demand for the degrees most teachers have i.e. non vocational.

Im a governor. My experience of recruiting is typical - one place opens up and there are 10+ candidates. Thats not a market low on people.

 

I would agree there is no other job for them to go to, the transferable skills would be low

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WeIt isnt so much teachers transferable skills are poor, more they are specific to two areas, teaching and childcare. The only way to do the former is tutoring, however there isnt enough work to provide a full time income in most areas. 

With regards to childcare, more opportunities to do work in that area, except our society(along with caring for the elderly)  places low economic value on it so the pay is terrible. 

 

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39 minutes ago, nothernsoul said:

......places low economic value on it so the pay is terrible. 

Sums it up in one......teaching, caring and nursing = low economic value.

In that case we will all have to start learning to do it for ourselves.;)

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1 hour ago, PopGun said:

What I meant was what they both claim to deliver and how. The reality however is often a different outcome, mostly due to their wilful miss interpretation.

Yeah, I know, I’m just pointing out that the claims are always going to be wonderful, it’s not really saying anything. 

Furthermore:

hqdefault.jpg

the burger on the right is the real one, the one on the left never existed.  

If you say you like McDoogals, and you want everyone to go there for your birthday, then don’t act all shocked when your food doesn’t look like a picture of food that never existed.  That food isn’t available.

 

Edited by BuyToLeech
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8 hours ago, mathschoc said:

south east is particularly bad for Maths, Physics and Chemistry

It does make you fear for the future. There won't be any new teachers entering the profession in the south East with £200k for a shoebox flat. 

Especially when they can head to the midlands/up north and get a much better place for the money. 

If we don't see a reduction soon, there will be serious problems over the next ten years. No teachers to teach the kids and no nurses/doctors to care for us. Prob too pessimistic but I can't see why a teacher would teach whilst being required to live in a hmo

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39 minutes ago, UnconventionalWisdom said:

It does make you fear for the future. There won't be any new teachers entering the profession in the south East with £200k for a shoebox flat. 

Especially when they can head to the midlands/up north and get a much better place for the money. 

If we don't see a reduction soon, there will be serious problems over the next ten years. No teachers to teach the kids and no nurses/doctors to care for us. Prob too pessimistic but I can't see why a teacher would teach whilst being required to live in a hmo

what about other professions? can you see why someone in a all centre would work 40hrs a week whilst being required to live in a HMO?

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1 hour ago, UnconventionalWisdom said:

It does make you fear for the future. There won't be any new teachers entering the profession in the south East with £200k for a shoebox flat. 

Especially when they can head to the midlands/up north and get a much better place for the money. 

If we don't see a reduction soon, there will be serious problems over the next ten years. No teachers to teach the kids and no nurses/doctors to care for us. Prob too pessimistic but I can't see why a teacher would teach whilst being required to live in a hmo

https://insights.thekeysupport.com/2016/05/25/why-dont-people-want-to-teach-in-london-and-the-south-east/

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lot of young teachers will be single. and single people were long ago priced out of almost everything. only 2 wages will give yu a chance and even 2 wages is now becoming untaibable. its at this point we have a very very big problem. and we are there. i mean how can a politician sit talking of hard working families and its their policies that are keeping these hard working families in someone elses home paying most of their wages over. 

 

as for the singletons, you are completely stuffed no matter how hard you work. 

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2 hours ago, UnconventionalWisdom said:

If we don't see a reduction soon, there will be serious problems over the next ten years. No teachers to teach the kids and no nurses/doctors to care for us. Prob too pessimistic but I can't see why a teacher would teach whilst being required to live in a hmo

While visiting  a friend in hospital recently (Romford Essex) the nurse quoted that she and her husband a lorry driver , both early 40's were paying £1,400 pm to rent a small house. They have one adult child of 20 now working. 

The husband has just inherited £90,000 and at a very big push they could buy a small house with a big mortgage in Essex. But instead as her husbands company has a branch in the north and being a nurse she can work anywhere they are going to move to the north. 

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10 hours ago, winkie said:

Sums it up in one......teaching, caring and nursing = low economic value.

In that case we will all have to start learning to do it for ourselves.;)

Same for doctors. Hence the Dept of Health' s latest letter to the public saying "don't get sick." 

The only taxpayer funded operations that are fully financed are connected with money lending and bungs to builders in return for keeping up scarcity of housing supply, and inflating prices. 

Interesting that the PM had to be interrupted on the day the NHS cancelled all non urgent surgery for 6 weeks. What was she doing? She was posing with a couple of First Time Buyers who had just been handed 240k of taxpayer money so they can keep Persimmon staff in million pound bonuses. That's where taxes are going now. 

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8 hours ago, jimmy2x3 said:

lot of young teachers will be single. and single people were long ago priced out of almost everything. only 2 wages will give yu a chance and even 2 wages is now becoming untaibable. its at this point we have a very very big problem. and we are there. i mean how can a politician sit talking of hard working families and its their policies that are keeping these hard working families in someone elses home paying most of their wages over. 

 

as for the singletons, you are completely stuffed no matter how hard you work. 

I know it's a bit easier for couples but they are also stuffed if the relationship doesn't go well. No chance of moving on and going alone- many stay in loveless marriages and waste life as they don't have the option of living alone. I've seen this with an ex's parents- awful atmosphere and not great for the kids (even if they are adults). 

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Well there is of course a solution:

the 50 year intergenerational mortgage.

This the route the Japanese went down 30 years ago before their massive bubble burst (14 million people crammed into Tokyo and 'fundamentals of supply and demand' and being a 'global financial centre' did diddly-squat to halt the crash), and the route I fully expect we shall go down too.

The 50 year, inheritable mortgage was touted in UKIP manifesto during the last election as their 'solution' to the housing crisis - not sure if it's still part of policy but wouldn't be surprised.

It's coming, I tells ya! Be prepared to weep into your cornflakes when it does.

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9 minutes ago, zilly said:

50 year intergenerational mortgage

But it's a leveraged system. The only way people can afford an average priced house in the SE/London now is to use equity built up in a previous purchased house which has gone up by stupid levels. 

Mortgages are still limited to 4.5 times earnings right? So based on earnings alone, even the PM can't get a mortgage on most London property. 

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14 minutes ago, zilly said:

Well there is of course a solution:

the 50 year intergenerational mortgage.

This the route the Japanese went down 30 years ago before their massive bubble burst (14 million people crammed into Tokyo and 'fundamentals of supply and demand' and being a 'global financial centre' did diddly-squat to halt the crash), and the route I fully expect we shall go down too.

The 50 year, inheritable mortgage was touted in UKIP manifesto during the last election as their 'solution' to the housing crisis - not sure if it's still part of policy but wouldn't be surprised.

It's coming, I tells ya! Be prepared to weep into your cornflakes when it does.

Interest-only mortgages are the longest term possible, and we have those already. 

 

Edited by BuyToLeech
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21 hours ago, mathschoc said:

Depends on the subject.

A Maths teacher post has been advertised since September 2016 at my school, still not filled. 

The school has had to use supply merge classes, and now teaching 62 children in “lecture” format.

They pay thousands in fees to advertise (TES a private company which rips off schools) and zero applications on many of the rounds

I know two teachers who have left to go abroad, and two Maths teachers who have gone off to do Accountacy/Acturial training.

south east is particularly bad for Maths, Physics and Chemistry.

Maths teaching is wierd.

Up to 11 kids are OK with anyone who has a good GCSE pass. Its all pretty basic.

However, from my direct experience, Ive found a good 50% of teachers dont appear to have GCSE pass in Maths. I know one  who, despite going to Uni, does not have a GCSE pass, which I thought was not possible,.

From 13-16 it would help if the teacher had a good A level pass. Again, we are not talkign a huge effort, just some application and study. Sadly, 95% of teachers Ive talked gave up Maths and Physics at 16.

What fuxs me off as a gov. is not being able to pay much more for teachers with maths and science degrees. The message that most of the teachers I know understand is that if you dont have a good dgeree in a good subject then teach.

Its the system which mainly mixes up people who've done well in hard subjects with people who've frankly done fux all, then pays them the same. I know there's an option for the more driven to progers and bbecome year and subject heads over time but ...

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2 hours ago, UnconventionalWisdom said:

The image of the map says it all. 50% of schools in the SE and more in London say they are facing staff shortages. We pay politicians to make sure things like this doesn't happen ? 

I thoguht 'they' were paying them to keep house p rices high ....

Unintended consequences etc.

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2 hours ago, UnconventionalWisdom said:

...We pay politicians to make sure things like this doesn't happen ? 

Due to an impotent government, as a result of our VI captured democracy, whilst voters remain distracted/misinformed/managed by our captured media... for decades. The state of UK Housing is just one example. Orwellian!

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54 minutes ago, spyguy said:

 

What fuxs me off as a gov. is not being able to pay much more for teachers with maths and science degrees. The message that most of the teachers I know understand is that if you dont have a good dgeree in a good subject then teach.

Its the system which mainly mixes up people who've done well in hard subjects with people who've frankly done fux all, then pays them the same. I know there's an option for the more driven to progers and bbecome year and subject heads over time but ...

+1 totally agree. Those teaching maths with crap qualifications will plan lessons that are restrictive ie never go beyond the teachers own comfort/ability.

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19 hours ago, BuyToLeech said:

Yeah, I know, I’m just pointing out that the claims are always going to be wonderful, it’s not really saying anything. 

Furthermore:

hqdefault.jpg

the burger on the right is the real one, the one on the left never existed.  

If you say you like McDoogals, and you want everyone to go there for your birthday, then don’t act all shocked when your food doesn’t look like a picture of food that never existed.  That food isn’t available.

 

Good analogy 

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1 hour ago, spyguy said:

Maths teaching is wierd.

Up to 11 kids are OK with anyone who has a good GCSE pass. Its all pretty basic.

However, from my direct experience, Ive found a good 50% of teachers dont appear to have GCSE pass in Maths. I know one  who, despite going to Uni, does not have a GCSE pass, which I thought was not possible,.

From 13-16 it would help if the teacher had a good A level pass. Again, we are not talkign a huge effort, just some application and study. Sadly, 95% of teachers Ive talked gave up Maths and Physics at 16.

What fuxs me off as a gov. is not being able to pay much more for teachers with maths and science degrees. The message that most of the teachers I know understand is that if you dont have a good dgeree in a good subject then teach.

Its the system which mainly mixes up people who've done well in hard subjects with people who've frankly done fux all, then pays them the same. I know there's an option for the more driven to progers and bbecome year and subject heads over time but ...

Woah woah wait a min, what happened to all these super doopa bankers who were going to invigorate teaching post credit crunch?

Have they all got their old jobs back? Hardly. More likely some couldn’t hack it (despite the qualifications) whilst most decided it wasn’t worth it salary wise. Which says it all really. I agree Maths and science teachers should attract bigger salaries.

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