Conservative Party Manifesto

[stormymonday_2011]

1 hour ago, fru-gal said:

I don't understand the argument that the Manchester attack would boost votes for the Tories. I think it does the opposite. It shows how completely incompetent and unwilling to make necessary changes they are, all talk and no action and the Tories like to sell themselves as being hard on terrorists, lots of tough soundbites which just sound ridiculous coming from Treesa who was Home Secretary for many years and failed to do anything about these issues etc.

The Tories have had 7 years to make real, noticeable changes, instead we have a border force which is not fit for purpose (if they can't stop an individual who was apparently know to the security services and returning from Syria/Libya, which should be a no brainer red flag), the public can have no confidence that the Tories can stop criminals, people who  have  overstayed their visa, people who have sneaked into the country illegally, failed asylum seekers etc let alone terrorists. People have realised that the Tories are saying one thing and very obviously doing (or failing to do) another and this sends the message that they think their voters are stupid and that they are arrogant for believing they can say or do anything and still get voted for. 

Their manifesto is like something that Orwell would dream up, they want to ban everything and monitor everyone. We are going to have a dysfunctional police state where no transgressions are allowed outside of Treesa and the Christian Conservatives narrow value judgments of what is good and moral. So everything will be a thought crime, everything will be banned with absolutely no nuance or analysis, however, the only people that will suffer will be ordinary, law abiding folk rather than the criminals and terrorists which Treesa says all these paranoid interventions are meant for. I think she is totally out of her depth and I think an even bigger Conservative majority at this stage, with Treesa believing she has been given unanimous support by the public to do all things would be absolutely terrifying. I think I am going to spoil my vote. I can't vote for Corbyn or the Lib Dems and I am genuinely worried for the future of this country with Treesa as our leader.

Given that the Tories have  placed central and local government in a state of constant reorganisation over the past 7 years in their version of Conservative Maoist permanent revolution it is hardly surprising that they can't catch a cold let alone a bunch of jihadi killers. One logically fallacy they seem to struggle to overcome is that if you want to have a police state constantly watching the populace then you actually need some policemen and IT technology that works. At least Thatcher realised she needed the manpower when she took on her opponents. The fact that May is actually losing ground in the polls against an opponent like Corbyn suggests  her party has seriously f*cked up this campaign. For example in the are of Islamic terrorism the Conservativess hould be constantly pointing out that some of what we are seeing today is are a result of the huge boost to jihadists  provided by the Blair and Brown administrations policies on immigration, foreign policy intervention etc. However, they struggle to do so because under Cameron they more or less aped the policies of their Labour predecessors. Moreover, when they want to have a pop at Corbyn on the subject of terrorism the best they can do is to drag up ancient picture of him in the company of members of SF from decades ago and which relate to events many electorate can't even remember as they were children at the time.  The truth is most of the Tory ministers are as ineffectual and piss poor as their current Labour opponents so this election is really llttle more than a political gurning contest to decide who is ugliest

Edited May 27, 2017 by stormymonday_2011

[Will!]

10 minutes ago, dougless said:

Can you expand on the 'gilt strike' bit.  Are you saying that the Government (or lack of it) will find it increasingly hard to borrow money - hence gilt strike?  I do hope you are correct.

In my view, political paralysis while attempting to negotiate Brexit should mean gilt buyers demand higher yields in order to lend money to HM Government.  If yields on UK gilts (supposedly one of the safest investments) rise then interest rates on all supposedly more risky bonds should also rise.  This should lead to banks and building societies that borrow on the money markets to lend mortgages increasing the rates on those mortgages and so lead to an HPC.

The government can monetise its debt up to a point by authorising the Bank of England to perform more quantitative easing, but with the value of sterling now being critical reappraised by the foreign exchange markets I think the extent to which the BoE can debase sterling without causing an acute currency collapse has been greatly reduced.   

[TulipsFromThreadneedle]

52 minutes ago, Will! said:

Indeed.  In my view Brexit + hung parliament = gilt strike = rise in real interest rates = HPC.

More likely Brexit + hung parliament = more QE = debase pound further under the theme its good for exports

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

16 minutes ago, crashmonitor said:

Fair play to the Tories they were 4-0 up after 5 minutes when they called the election, could have been done and dusted by now with an election say last week. Hell  let's give the opposition a chance let's play for 180 minutes to give them time to score a few goals. Tbh after 7 weeks of this I was ready for the whistle to be blown at least a fortnight ago.

At one point it looked like extra time was going to be called. Perhaps it's straight to the penalty shoot out!

[TulipsFromThreadneedle]

1 hour ago, fru-gal said:

I don't understand the argument that the Manchester attack would boost votes for the Tories. I think it does the opposite. It shows how completely incompetent and unwilling to make necessary changes they are, all talk and no action and the Tories like to sell themselves as being hard on terrorists, lots of tough soundbites which just sound ridiculous coming from Treesa who was Home Secretary for many years and failed to do anything about these issues etc.

Because Jeremy Corbyn is pictured with lots of vile IRA leaders/members and they bombed Manchester and have murdered lots of kids in their time.

 

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

7 minutes ago, TulipsFromThreadneedle said:

Because Jeremy Corbyn is pictured with lots of vile IRA leaders/members and they bombed Manchester and have murdered lots of kids in their time.

 

Well, I think I agree with fru-gal. There are a lot of people who anti-war since the Iraq/Libya/Siria debacles, and May is promising no change. Things in Ireland were only sorted out by talks and compromise, though I do feel IS are 10 leagues more irrational and evil than the IRA.

But also consider that there are 23,000 reasons in the UK now not to support Theresa May.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4546482/amp/Bank-Holiday-ring-steel-Security-ramped-1300-events.html

And instead of Red Light on Immigration we have had a (Damian) Green Light under the coalition, and an Amber (Rudd) Light under the current Government. 

Of course the bad guys just jump the lights anyway, and we have no traffic light cameras.

 

[rollover]

29 minutes ago, crashmonitor said:

Fair play to the Tories they were 4-0 up after 5 minutes when they called the election, could have been done and dusted by now with an election say last week. Hell  let's give the opposition a chance let's play for 180 minutes to give them time to score a few goals. Tbh after 7 weeks of this I was ready for the whistle to be blown at least a fortnight ago.

Do you remember the Reds' remarkable comeback to win the 2005 UEFA Champions League Final A.C. Milan - Liverpool? 

Milan were regarded as favorite before the match and took the lead within the first minute through captain Paolo Maldini. Milan striker Hernán Crespo added two more goals before half-time to make it 3–0. During halftime chaos abound in the Liverpool dressing room and Milan already popping champagne.

And the rest is now history lesson to remember.

 

[CunningPlan]

On 2017-5-23 at 0:22 AM, stormymonday_2011 said:

It is indeed strange that we already have an established mechanism for assessing tax on estates at death caled IHT which would provide an obvious means of socialising costs for long term care. This seems to have been by passed by the Conservative Manifesto that seemed to want only the families of those unfortunate to need care pay.

In 2013-14 there were 267,549 Estates issued a grant of representation at an average value of £288,000. These were worth £77 billion in total.

Applying Mrs Mays Dementia tax exemption threshold of £100,000 to all these and levying IHT at 40% would have yielded £20 billion in tax rather than the £3.5 billion that was collected under the current IHT system. That would be more than enought to cover any care costs for the long term sick and disabled.

 

This would be an excellent solution that would never get voted for. I would amend it to be 50% on housing assets and 30% on all other assets to encourage downsizing.

[TulipsFromThreadneedle]

24 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

Well, I think I agree with fru-gal. There are a lot of people who anti-war since the Iraq/Libya/Siria debacles, and May is promising no change. Things in Ireland were only sorted out by talks and compromise, though I do feel IS are 10 leagues more irrational and evil than the IRA.

But also consider that there are 23,000 reasons in the UK now not to support Theresa May.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4546482/amp/Bank-Holiday-ring-steel-Security-ramped-1300-events.html

And instead of Red Light on Immigration we have had a (Damian) Green Light under the coalition, and an Amber (Rudd) Light under the current Government. 

Of course the bad guys just jump the lights anyway, and we have no traffic light cameras.

 

Yes they're useless and have had 7 years of making everything worse they're utterly incompetent in every way imaginable apart from lining their own pockets and turning their nation into something out of an Orwell novel at this they are world class.

But those pictures speak 1000 words and make pro terrorist supporter Corbyn look very bad. 

I agree people are for keeping out of foreign wars but this is on our own shores now. Not fighting back and doing sweet FA apart from invite more illiterate Muslims into the nation is all we've ever done, Corbyn will do more of the same and blame the British whereas the masses want action ... May at least infers she's aware of this.

[stormymonday_2011]

1 hour ago, TulipsFromThreadneedle said:

Because Jeremy Corbyn is pictured with lots of vile IRA leaders/members and they bombed Manchester and have murdered lots of kids in their time.

 

it now appears a fair few of them were 'touts' working for British intelligence though Corbyn probably did not realise that fact

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/half-of-all-top-ira-men-worked-for-security-services-28694353.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stakeknife

Ulster was a very dirty war in practically every way.

 

 

Edited May 27, 2017 by stormymonday_2011

[TulipsFromThreadneedle]

Just now, stormymonday_2011 said:

it now appear a fair few of them were 'touts' working for British intelligence though Corbyn probably did not realise that fact

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/half-of-all-top-ira-men-worked-for-security-services-28694353.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stakeknife

Ulster was a very dirty war in practically every way.

 

 

Whatever they are for they dont look good when Adams bombed Manchester.

[stormymonday_2011]

6 minutes ago, TulipsFromThreadneedle said:

Whatever they are for they dont look good when Adams bombed Manchester.

I think the Tories would be better advised to concentrate on the last  Labour governments failings in immigration and foreign policy particularly with regard to the Islamic world rather than worrying about Corbyn having tea with Gerry Adams. Sadly it seems the Conservatives prefer to live in the past re fighting old conflicts with Trade Unions and Irish Republicans rather than dealing with current threats

[billybong]

1 hour ago, stormymonday_2011 said:

it now appears a fair few of them were 'touts' working for British intelligence though Corbyn probably did not realise that fact

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/half-of-all-top-ira-men-worked-for-security-services-28694353.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stakeknife

Ulster was a very dirty war in practically every way.

 

 

At the time it wasn't a secret that efforts had been made to infiltrate the IRA as that was in the mainstream press and TV etc and one assumes it was published to undermine confidence etc.    

I don't think there were any specific claims in the main media then about top IRA men though - for maybe obvious reasons.  I guess if he'd put two and two together he might have thought it was a possibility even though at the time a very remote and unlikely possibility.

Edited May 27, 2017 by billybong

[TulipsFromThreadneedle]

1 hour ago, fru-gal said:

There are a lot of stupid people out there but perhaps not as many as the Tories like to think...

The stupid people are the ones who forget the destruction the last Labour govt has done to Britain and our way of life.

 

[Bruce Banner]

6 minutes ago, TulipsFromThreadneedle said:

The stupid people are the ones who forget the destruction the last Labour govt has done to Britain and our way of life.

 

The problem is that the following "Conservative led government" was even worse!

I say again, the best thing we could have now is a Corbyn led coalition with Farron as Deputy PM. Six months of that nonsense and we'd have a vote of no confidence, hopefully followed by something sensible!

[Bruce Banner]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjk3tKt0pDUAhVFORoKHXStAbsQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fsteverotherammp.org.uk%2Fnews_87605.html&psig=AFQjCNHUM2x_bYuB6uvJNTiivl8csyhC7g&ust=1495993974142461

[TulipsFromThreadneedle]

Just now, Bruce Banner said:

The problem is that the following "Conservative led government" was even worse!

I say again, the best thing we could have now is a Corbyn led coalition with Farron as Deputy PM. Six months of that nonsense and we'd have a vote of no confidence, hopefully followed by something sensible!

It'll be Sturgeon/SNP as  crown makers, Fallon might get a job as tea boy with the couple of seats he may win. i think its possible they may get none.

Such a coalition would stick together for 5 years as they're cut from the same cloth and like the LimpDums showed theyll do anything to stay in power for 5 years.

I dont know what the best outcome is for a HPC, everything changes once they're back in power.

[Bruce Banner]

[Bruce Banner]

[TulipsFromThreadneedle]

Just now, fru-gal said:

I think both parties are stupid. The problem is the Tories are the ones in power and instead of making changes after 2010 they basically became NuLabour #2.

Fully agree and its why this was never in the bag but they were too arrogant to realise

They all them seem to be doing everything they can to show how utterly incompetent they are and why they should never be allowed to run a whelk stall let alone the UK. Never seen anything quite like it.

I do think if the economy continues on the same path then in 2022 Corbyn will win. 

[Bruce Banner]

[wish I could afford one]

5 minutes ago, TulipsFromThreadneedle said:

Fully agree and its why this was never in the bag but they were too arrogant to realise

They all them seem to be doing everything they can to show how utterly incompetent they are and why they should never be allowed to run a whelk stall let alone the UK. Never seen anything quite like it.

I do think if the economy continues on the same path then in 2022 Corbyn will win. 

Brexit is not going to be a trivial problem that can be dealt with by laughing at each other across a despatch box.  I can only begin to think about how difficult and complex that will be to unwind.  Why not let the other side win and collect the easy money as the opposition while all that plays out.  Then if the other side gets it badly wrong you might just get yourself into government for the next 20 years.  A win win.  If you're one of the establishment in the secure seats it's easy money and job security all at the same time.

[TulipsFromThreadneedle]

25 minutes ago, wish I could afford one said:

Brexit is not going to be a trivial problem that can be dealt with by laughing at each other across a despatch box.  I can only begin to think about how difficult and complex that will be to unwind.  Why not let the other side win and collect the easy money as the opposition while all that plays out.  Then if the other side gets it badly wrong you might just get yourself into government for the next 20 years.  A win win.  If you're one of the establishment in the secure seats it's easy money and job security all at the same time.

Itll be trivial for Labour/SNP as theyll sign any trade deal put in front of them, keep borders and benefits open for EU citizens and they'll pay any ransom demand they EU ask for leaving.

[crashmonitor]

Comres has May back in control a 12% lead. Should be more polls out for the Sunday papers.

[TulipsFromThreadneedle]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/27/exclusive-telegraph-orb-poll-labour-narrows-gap-six-points-women/

ORB has it at 6%