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Wrong side of the railway tracks: Most extreme examples

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Interested in examples of areas less than 100 metres apart that have wildly different house prices. They may be divided by a railway, road or not at all.  Trying to understand how this happens and whether these extremes can diminish or widen. Cheers

 

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15 minutes ago, PropertyMania said:

Interested in examples of areas less than 100 metres apart that have wildly different house prices. They may be divided by a railway, road or not at all.  Trying to understand how this happens and whether these extremes can diminish or widen. Cheers

 

school catchments areas best example. In my area some school catchment areas are as little as 350m . Falling in or out is a big £ swing.

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1 minute ago, chicker said:

school catchments areas best example. In my area some school catchment areas are as little as 350m . Falling in or out is a big £ swing.

Good point. What % difference for the average size family home?

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Just now, PropertyMania said:

Good point. What % difference for the average size family home?

Not sure what % as calcs based on what alternative schooling would cost. I reckon in outer london 40-50k , so at the moment somewhere around 8%

People often rent in the catchment for a year ish and I reckon that will cost at least 20k ish

 

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5 minutes ago, PropertyMania said:

Good point. What % difference for the average size family home?

What is an average sized family home nowadays?

To give you an example, round my way, a 3 bedroom mid terrace used to rent for £2,500 per month because of the local school - catchment about 500 metres.

The school changed the way admissions work last year, and two houses that had let instantly for years at that price chased each other down to about £1,600 per month, which took about 6 months.

They are now at a rental value similarl to houses that are 700 meters+ away.

So I would suggest that being in catchment added about 50% to the property price - None have sold recently but I would suggest they will have dropped from approx. £600k to around £400k.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, chicker said:

Not sure what % as calcs based on what alternative schooling would cost. I reckon in outer london 40-50k , so at the moment somewhere around 8%

People often rent in the catchment for a year ish and I reckon that will cost at least 20k ish

 

So presumably once Johnny gets admitted, he can't be thrown out because they move down the road? Is there a minimum time parents need to have been living in catchment area?

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As I understand it, schools are now wise to such practices, and the traditional catchment area does not exist in the way that it used to. Where you live is one of a list of criteria that is used when a school calculates whether to offer your child a place. Still means you have to live fairly close to the school to have much chance, obviously. Don't know if there's a minimum time you have to be living there, but I have heard tales of them coming knocking, just to confirm you actually reside where you say you're residing.

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3 minutes ago, PropertyMania said:

So presumably once Johnny gets admitted, he can't be thrown out because they move down the road? Is there a minimum time parents need to have been living in catchment area?

Once Johnny gets admitted so do the brothers and sisters , so a big incentive . I know you have to be in residence ie October on application and get your offer in early March.

Most stay in catchment for an academic year and then go back to their "permanent" residence. Schools and boroughs are getting wise to smart practices like using postal addresses.

Agree with CP on rental scenario but  wouldn't think 200k difference is correct on sale price unless the place has no other attractions and is next to a council tip !

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37 minutes ago, PropertyMania said:

Interested in examples of areas less than 100 metres apart that have wildly different house prices. They may be divided by a railway, road or not at all.  Trying to understand how this happens and whether these extremes can diminish or widen. Cheers

 

 

The most extreme example i can think of is the land either side of the DLR from Westferry to Bank.

 

Canary Wharf skyscrapers, "luxury flats" and marinas/docks on one side, and grotty council estates and run down takeaways on the other. Prices are at least 50% higher on average on the Canary Wharf side.

 

As for what causes it - lack of investment and scope for growth on the grotty side. They've been trying to improve the grotty side for decades with not much result. 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, chicker said:

Once Johnny gets admitted so do the brothers and sisters , so a big incentive . I know you have to be in residence ie October on application and get your offer in early March.

Most stay in catchment for an academic year and then go back to their "permanent" residence. Schools and boroughs are getting wise to smart practices like using postal addresses.

Agree with CP on rental scenario but  wouldn't think 200k difference is correct on sale price unless the place has no other attractions and is next to a council tip !

That's what has changed and created the drop in value.

It used to be siblings got in without question. That is no longer the case.

So in the past, people would put up with a year of living in somewhere much smaller (or as has been said, rent it but never really move in). So £30k rent could save you (say) 3 lots of private school fees for 4 years. 

However, you now have to do that for every child you want to get in - so your £30k only sorts out one child. Also bear in mind that although it is a state comprehensive, it charges £6k per year per pupil in fees, so you are only saving about £12k per year net over a good private school, or £48k over the four years which has cost you £30k plus the aggravation.

The maths no longer add up. 

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31 minutes ago, LC1 said:

As I understand it, schools are now wise to such practices, and the traditional catchment area does not exist in the way that it used to. Where you live is one of a list of criteria that is used when a school calculates whether to offer your child a place. Still means you have to live fairly close to the school to have much chance, obviously. Don't know if there's a minimum time you have to be living there, but I have heard tales of them coming knocking, just to confirm you actually reside where you say you're residing.

They don't need to come knocking. If 50 kids get in, any parent in the next 10 or so on the reserve list will happily grass up someone who is trying to game the system.

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1 minute ago, CunningPlan said:

That's what has changed and created the drop in value.

It used to be siblings got in without question. That is no longer the case.

So in the past, people would put up with a year of living in somewhere much smaller (or as has been said, rent it but never really move in). So £30k rent could save you (say) 3 lots of private school fees for 4 years. 

However, you now have to do that for every child you want to get in - so your £30k only sorts out one child. Also bear in mind that although it is a state comprehensive, it charges £6k per year per pupil in fees, so you are only saving about £12k per year net over a good private school, or £48k over the four years which has cost you £30k plus the aggravation.

The maths no longer add up. 

Might be wrong but I think  the academies can set their own admission criteria and siblings are still accepted . Lots of comps changing over to academy status.

This will be intersting long term.

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On holiday on Canada once and looked in several EA shop windows. Astounded when prices suddenly plunged to less than half. We had forgotten we had crossed the Ontario to Quebec border. 

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2 minutes ago, chicker said:

Might be wrong but I think  the academies can set their own admission criteria and siblings are still accepted . Lots of comps changing over to academy status.

This will be intersting long term.

The criteria I set out above are correct for the school I am talking about. They changed last year to avoid the 'rent to get in' system that was becoming prevalent.

The interesting thing is that ANY adopted child from anywhere in the country has first dibs.

One of my son's friends was adamant that he would get a place even though he lived 5+ miles away. We kept saying that he couldn't guarantee it but we didn't know he was adopted at about 6 months old.

If this was widely known, the very best schools could become almost exclusively full of adopted children.

 

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We did this - 18 months crammed into a very small flat before moving outside the catchment area. We're still close, but many of my kids' friends have to commute in from 2 or 3 miles away. And, yes, the school has now changed the criteria so that this wouldn't work for younger siblings (we got ours in before the change).

The catchment area was about 300 yards - and that was walking, not as the crow flies (one poor sod didn't get her kids in even though her garden backs onto the back of the school).

Edited by tomandlu
and/but

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5 hours ago, tomandlu said:

We did this - 18 months crammed into a very small flat before moving outside the catchment area. We're still close, but many of my kids' friends have to commute in from 2 or 3 miles away. And, yes, the school has now changed the criteria so that this wouldn't work for younger siblings (we got ours in before the change).

The catchment area was about 300 yards - and that was walking, not as the crow flies (one poor sod didn't get her kids in even though her garden backs onto the back of the school).

So private schooling by another name - only those who can afford to do  this will get into the best schools.

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6 hours ago, CunningPlan said:

The criteria I set out above are correct for the school I am talking about. They changed last year to avoid the 'rent to get in' system that was becoming prevalent.

The interesting thing is that ANY adopted child from anywhere in the country has first dibs.

One of my son's friends was adamant that he would get a place even though he lived 5+ miles away. We kept saying that he couldn't guarantee it but we didn't know he was adopted at about 6 months old.

If this was widely known, the very best schools could become almost exclusively full of adopted children.

 

I knew that a few London councils have done this/tried to do this but is it now widespread the change to the sibling rule ?

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8 hours ago, CunningPlan said:

That's what has changed and created the drop in value.

It used to be siblings got in without question. That is no longer the case.

So in the past, people would put up with a year of living in somewhere much smaller (or as has been said, rent it but never really move in). So £30k rent could save you (say) 3 lots of private school fees for 4 years. 

However, you now have to do that for every child you want to get in - so your £30k only sorts out one child. Also bear in mind that although it is a state comprehensive, it charges £6k per year per pupil in fees, so you are only saving about £12k per year net over a good private school, or £48k over the four years which has cost you £30k plus the aggravation.

The maths no longer add up. 

The difference between property prices in the catchment of a good comprehensive school in our area and where we live is £125,000 (£185k vs £310k on a modest 3 bedroom semi). The additional cost (£200k (assuming added to the mortgage over 25 years)) can't be far off that of a private education.

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1 hour ago, longtomsilver said:

The difference between property prices in the catchment of a good comprehensive school in our area and where we live is £125,000 (£185k vs £310k on a modest 3 bedroom semi). The additional cost (£200k (assuming added to the mortgage over 25 years)) can't be far off that of a private education.

I take it the school (s) would be ofsted outstanding rated rather than good ? Trying to make sense of the figures rather than being a pedant .

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36 minutes ago, chicker said:

I take it the school (s) would be ofsted outstanding rated rather than good ? Trying to make sense of the figures rather than being a pedant .

The one I am talking about is beyond that. It was ranked 2nd highest achieving non selective state school in England last year hence the price premium.

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12 hours ago, PropertyMania said:

Interested in examples of areas less than 100 metres apart that have wildly different house prices. They may be divided by a railway, road or not at all.  Trying to understand how this happens and whether these extremes can diminish or widen. Cheers

 

Birmingham springs to mind.  Common for a field between mc'mansions and councel housing

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10 hours ago, tomandlu said:

We did this - 18 months crammed into a very small flat before moving outside the catchment area. We're still close, but many of my kids' friends have to commute in from 2 or 3 miles away. And, yes, the school has now changed the criteria so that this wouldn't work for younger siblings (we got ours in before the change).

The catchment area was about 300 yards - and that was walking, not as the crow flies (one poor sod didn't get her kids in even though her garden backs onto the back of the school).

Perhaps the poor sods would have got in if you hadn't done the rent thing.

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