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RushRoad

Earnings by education and age

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How very demoralizing...what explains the drop off as you get older? Redundancies leading to some people settling for any non qualification job they can get their hands on?

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42 minutes ago, btd1981 said:

How very demoralizing...what explains the drop off as you get older? Redundancies leading to some people settling for any non qualification job they can get their hands on?

I'd expect well off people retire much earlier than less well off so the rate of pay drops.

Probably less incentive all round and if you HAVE to change jobs then you'll probably get less after 55

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21 minutes ago, btl_hater said:

I thought the median wage in Northern cities was about 30k on another thread.... or was that pure ********???

My thoughts exactly!

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7 minutes ago, Smiley George said:

And the correlation with this and some house price related information is?????

It shows wages are higher than most people on here imagine which does some/most the way to explaining how it is that people can afford to buy.

21 minutes ago, btl_hater said:

I thought the median wage in Northern cities was about 30k on another thread.... or was that pure ********???

The graph also includes part time workers also it's out of sate by 4 years so increase the figures you see by about 15% to take it to 2017 figures

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2 minutes ago, willie said:

You must have a lot of spare time on your hands these days to post so prolifically in favour of buying houses and BTLs.  No vested interest Your EA office closed down ?

:lol::lol::lol:

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2 hours ago, btd1981 said:

How very demoralizing...what explains the drop off as you get older? Redundancies leading to some people settling for any non qualification job they can get their hands on?

People deciding "feck it" and reducing there hours?  Losing 1 day a week may improve your quality of life but reduce your income.

If I could get a salary doubling my current wage I'd seriously consider dropping a day and just having a 4 day week.  It's a much more pleasant way to work.

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Always wondered why working (for money) for the majority goes from all to nothing at all......a gradual decline into retirement, winding down gracefully.....just to say retirement does not mean stop working, it means still working, but doing something different but better on your own terms and in your own time......then you die.;)

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2 hours ago, RushRoad said:

It shows wages are higher than most people on here imagine which does some/most the way to explaining how it is that people can afford to buy.

The graph also includes part time workers also it's out of sate by 4 years so increase the figures you see by about 15% to take it to 2017 figures

Also has something to say about the generalised myth on here that going to university is a waste of money.

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3 minutes ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

Also has something to say about the generalised myth on here that going to university is a waste of money.

Not all the best employers require an employee that has been to university......the younger you start, the earlier you can finish....number of accumulated full time working years and experience.....start early, finish early, change direction.;)

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28 minutes ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

Also has something to say about the generalised myth on here that going to university is a waste of money.

Not necessarily. The brightest 50% will go to university and on the whole the brightest 50% will earn the most. It doesn't show the degree was the cause of the higher wages.

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25 minutes ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

Also has something to say about the generalised myth on here that going to university is a waste of money.

 

Data from 2011 irrc 47% of recent graduates (0-5 years) are in non graduates roles like working at a checkout or coffee shop

So for about half of those that go its clearly not worth it at all. For the rest there is provably some small element of benefit

Personally I think university education should be fully paid by the student up front (annually) with no loans or grants. However 18 year olds should be given £50k by the government on their 18th birthday to be used either on a university education or to be put into a pension or to be used as a deposit to buy a house. Maybe make it £2.5k annually for each child in a government account earning interest accessible at 18 for the reasons stated.

I'd wager with choice the kids would mostly opt not for university as it is overrated. £50k in an isa over 60 years (age 18-78) earning a real rate of return of 5% = £940,000 would the university graduates of today ever be able to catch up to that. Certainly not the 50% that get non graduate jobs!

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24 minutes ago, RushRoad said:

 

Data from 2011 irrc 47% of recent graduates (0-5 years) are in non graduates roles like working at a checkout or coffee shop

So for about half of those that go its clearly not worth it at all. For the rest there is provably some small element of benefit

Personally I think university education should be fully paid by the student up front (annually) with no loans or grants. However 18 year olds should be given £50k by the government on their 18th birthday to be used either on a university education or to be put into a pension or to be used as a deposit to buy a house. Maybe make it £2.5k annually for each child in a government account earning interest accessible at 18 for the reasons stated.

I'd wager with choice the kids would mostly opt not for university as it is overrated. £50k in an isa over 60 years (age 18-78) earning a real rate of return of 5% = £940,000 would the university graduates of today ever be able to catch up to that. Certainly not the 50% that get non graduate jobs!

Well, aside from the fact that that would cost more than the current defence budget, or the amount of money raised in corporation tax it sounds like a really good idea.

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45 minutes ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

Well, aside from the fact that that would cost more than the current defence budget, or the amount of money raised in corporation tax it sounds like a really good idea.

Apart from the fact that the price of a house would immediately shoot up by at least 50k :(

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1 hour ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

Also has something to say about the generalised myth on here that going to university is a waste of money.

I certainly don't want to disparage the value of university, even from a financial point of view, as it's stood me in good stead ... or at least covered up some personality flaws which might otherwise have rendered me unemployable.

However, if you want to lay into the advice sometimes given to kids today, and often expressed here, that university will screw up your finances, then this isn't quite the data set to do it with. What I see here is the following:

Those people who have a degree and were at least 29 in 2013 (that is to say, graduated 2005 or earlier) have made the right choice, based on average income. As RushRoad points out, that's an arithmetic mean, and it's possible that more than half have actually lost out relative to apprentices, if there are a few big salaries in that mix.

More tellingly, these data refer to past performance, and the real question is whether this is going to carry on into the future. I don't think there is much doubt that getting a degree used to be a great choice. As for the cohort due to graduate in 2020, it's less clear. It would be very interesting to see an up-to-date version of this graph, to see if the trends have changed at all for the more recent graduates.

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1 hour ago, RushRoad said:

However 18 year olds should be given £50k by the government on their 18th birthday to be used either on a university education or to be put into a pension or to be used as a deposit to buy a house.

This doesn't sound like a good idea to me...

 

19 minutes ago, btd1981 said:

Apart from the fact that the price of a house would immediately shoot up by at least 50k :(

mostly for this reason, but also because about 20% of that first year-group, with the help of some innovative financial wizardry, would wake up somewhere in south America, aged 19, with a hangover the size of a small planet and no recollection of the previous 12 months.

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4 hours ago, Smiley George said:

And the correlation with this and some house price related information is?????

Oh dear Georgie your a newbie aren't you - the beauty of this forum is we talk about all sorts and actually what people earn is pretty close in terms of an HPC related topic since it should have an impact on their borrowing ability

No matter keep your eyes peeled for two or three of our classic forum spat inducing threads often derailing perfectly good threads ?

Private Education 

London the vampire squid

North/South London s***hole subset of the above 

Cars

whatever made you think we only talk about houses ?? 

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9 hours ago, RushRoad said:

Figures are for 2013 so increase by ~15% if you want a 2017 figure

Where did you pull that 15% figure from - out of your bum or some skewed ONS stat? Very few people I know have had pay rises that compound to that over the time period mentioned although I am part of the 'squeezed middle' I guess so my bubble might not include the fabulous increases the minimum wage earners or the super rich have recently enjoyed.

But the subtext of every thread you post is that houses are incredibly affordable and we should all jump on board. I actually admire your persistence - its tickling me daily.

Edited by Frugal Git

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I am very surprised at how low relatively the earnings of graduates are in this study. 

While some graduate professions are not that well paid, such as teaching, it does seem a bit low, especially for those who are 40+. I can't think of any of my peers who are earning in that range. 

Not only would this relatively small group include typical wages of those earning about £40k, it should also include those earning much more - doctors, lawyers, accountants, bankers etc. 

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3 hours ago, Greg Bowman said:

Oh dear Georgie your a newbie aren't you - the beauty of this forum is we talk about all sorts and actually what people earn is pretty close in terms of an HPC related topic since it should have an impact on their borrowing ability

Sorry to take this conversation left-field Greg, but I wonder - is there a sub-set of people who might be interested in house prices who did not borrow against their own earnings, but actually borrow against other people's earnings?

If there was such a thing as an interest-only buy-to-let mortgage and if the affordability of that mortgage was assessed on the basis of an interest cover ratio (which speaks to the tenant's income, obviously, rather than the the borrower's income) then that might have some relevance here.

I used to know a thing or two about this but recently suffered a sharp blow to the head - whilst wrangling a particularly recalcitrant pumpkin - so I am open to contributions from others, but I have this foggy memory that borrowing of the kind to which I allude was possible.

Also, and again, I'm not sure that my memory is up to snuff on this, didn't the terms of lending to owner-occupiers adjust sharply in 2014 as the Bank of England implemented the Mortgage Market Review?

If the linkage between earned income of people buying houses with income and house prices was straight-forward we might have seen an adjustment at that point, but I don't recall any such adjustment.

It's all a big mystery to me, for sure!

I look forward to reading interesting ideas from others! 

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16 hours ago, btl_hater said:

I thought the median wage in Northern cities was about 30k on another thread.... or was that pure ********???

This chart is entirely in keeping with median/average wages quoted elsewhere.

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