Shared Ownership and Housing Benefit...

[nome]

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5636858

 

I'm not even surprised anymore, just another example of our wonderful benefits system.

 

People talk about Basic Income as if it's some kind of radical concept... but I'd say in reality we're already two thirds of the way down the road to it with our current profligate benefits system

[durhamborn]

6 minutes ago, nome said:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5636858

 

I'm not even surprised anymore, just another example of our wonderful benefits system.

 

People talk about Basic Income as if it's some kind of radical concept... but I'd say in reality we're already two thirds of the way down the road to it with our current profligate benefits system

Thats nothing,i know many people who paid their houses off with HB.The bloke bought it,rented it to his partner on benefits (lived there as well obviously) and used the HB to pay the house off.One in my street at the minute,but thats an uncle bought for his niece.Her HB/LHA pays the mortgage and he has left the house to her in his will.

Even better,another one is an ex copper.Bought a house with his huge public funded pension.Rents to his grandaughter whose HB he hands back to her as cash.Between them £800 a week from the taxpayer.Its everywhere,and on a massive scale.

[DrMartinSanchez]

1 hour ago, durhamborn said:

Even better,another one is an ex copper.Bought a house with his huge public funded pension.Rents to his grandaughter whose HB he hands back to her as cash.Between them £800 a week from the taxpayer.Its everywhere,and on a massive scale.

My initial thought was "Report it", but apparently this is totally legal.

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/housing_benefit/housing_benefit_renting_from_family

[chicker]

Durhamborn is this behaviour really common ? No one i socialise with would think this is anything else other than theft .Is the chance of being caught so remote that you can put your reputation on the line without worry ? Or have I completely misunderstood  my fellow man ?

Maybe some people view this defrauding of HB as sharp practice and not actually truely criminal. The ex copper tale is amazing . What is not amazing is he's an ex copper......

 

[iamnumerate]

1 hour ago, durhamborn said:

Thats nothing,i know many people who paid their houses off with HB.The bloke bought it,rented it to his partner on benefits (lived there as well obviously) and used the HB to pay the house off.One in my street at the minute,but thats an uncle bought for his niece.Her HB/LHA pays the mortgage and he has left the house to her in his will.

Even better,another one is an ex copper.Bought a house with his huge public funded pension.Rents to his grandaughter whose HB he hands back to her as cash.Between them £800 a week from the taxpayer.Its everywhere,and on a massive scale.

That is appalling.  I think if you rent from family you or the taxpayer should get a discount because you are trusted more.

[chicker]

6 minutes ago, DrMartinSanchez said:

My initial thought was "Report it", but apparently this is totally legal.

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/housing_benefit/housing_benefit_renting_from_family

That partly answers my question . The system is truely broken

[winkie]

The system allows all these anomalies to happen, that is why it is called the system, the system of loopholes, just have to find them.

[crazypabs]

1 hour ago, durhamborn said:

Even better,another one is an ex copper.Bought a house with his huge public funded pension.Rents to his grandaughter whose HB he hands back to her as cash.Between them £800 a week from the taxpayer.Its everywhere,and on a massive scale.

so who foots the section 24 tax bill?

[iamnumerate]

3 minutes ago, crazypabs said:

so who foots the section 24 tax bill?

I guess in this case he can raise the rent - providing she is under the wonderful benefit cap.

[crazypabs]

2 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

I guess in this case he can raise the rent - providing she is under the wonderful benefit cap.

agreed but she is probably receiving the maximum restricted by the LHA cap.

[durhamborn]

3 hours ago, crazypabs said:

so who foots the section 24 tax bill?

He will just pay the tax on his tax form,he will of paid the house off anyway probably,or a big chunk.He will be on 20% tax so doubt they are bothered.If he gets £150 a week rent tha the hands to her,he will just hand £120,its free money for her remember on top of all her other benefits.

[durhamborn]

3 hours ago, DrMartinSanchez said:

My initial thought was "Report it", but apparently this is totally legal.

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/housing_benefit/housing_benefit_renting_from_family

Yes its legal.Loads of people do it where im from.Very common.Used to be the bloke bought and rented to his partner on benefits and he lived there as well without declaring.That still goes on but its now more middle class people doing it.Relations buying for daughters/nieces etc and diverting the housing benefit.One of the ones in my street doing it also has a free car.Its her grandads on mobility,but he doesnt want/need it so she has it.He lives 30 miles away and has probably never sat in it.Free house,free car,free £15k a year spending money.All legal,yet all fiddle.

[opt_out]

8 hours ago, nome said:

People talk about Basic Income as if it's some kind of radical concept... but I'd say in reality we're already two thirds of the way down the road to it with our current profligate benefits system

 

The benefits system is only superficially similar, in as much as it's handing out loads of money, it has none of the positive benefits of Basic Income.

 

 

 

[Hectors House]

8 hours ago, durhamborn said:

Thats nothing,i know many people who paid their houses off with HB.The bloke bought it,rented it to his partner on benefits (lived there as well obviously) and used the HB to pay the house off.One in my street at the minute,but thats an uncle bought for his niece.Her HB/LHA pays the mortgage and he has left the house to her in his will.

 

6

They are actually committing HB fraud because you can bet your life the council don't know he is living there! From memory, To claim HB for mortgage purposes it may be a time limited and then it only pays off the interest! (see SMI - Support for Mortgage Interest), I smell BS on the outrage bus in this thread!

"The following benefits give you some help towards your mortgage costs:

Income Support. This is help for lone parents or carers
Income-based Jobseeker's Allowance (JSA). This is help for people who are looking for work
Pension Credit. This is help for people who are over 60 and on a low income
Income-related Employment and Support Allowance (ESA). This is help for people who are too sick or disabled to work.

Housing costs payments contribute towards the cost of the interest payments on your mortgage. They may also contribute towards the interest payments on loans taken out to pay for repairs or home improvements. Housing costs payments can't be used to pay off any of the capital of your mortgage.

Housing costs are paid at a standard rate of interest, regardless of the rate of interest you are actually paying.

This means that although there can be cases where housing costs payments are higher than the interest you have to pay, in many cases, the payments will be lower. You will have to make up any difference between the interest due to the lender and the amount of interest covered by the housing costs payments. However, if you can't afford to make up the difference, it might be worth asking your lender if they will just accept the housing costs payments for the time being until you can make up the full amount at a later date".

Is the woman claiming she is renting it from her uncle and not declaring she owns it? 

 

[Mrs Bear]

15 hours ago, durhamborn said:

Yes its legal.Loads of people do it where im from.Very common.Used to be the bloke bought and rented to his partner on benefits and he lived there as well without declaring.That still goes on but its now more middle class people doing it.Relations buying for daughters/nieces etc and diverting the housing benefit.One of the ones in my street doing it also has a free car.Its her grandads on mobility,but he doesnt want/need it so she has it.He lives 30 miles away and has probably never sat in it.Free house,free car,free £15k a year spending money.All legal,yet all fiddle.

How is it legal to be using a mobility car provided for someone else who lives 30 miles away?  

 

 

[spyguy]

1 hour ago, Mrs Bear said:

How is it legal to be using a mobility car provided for someone else who lives 30 miles away?  

 

 

Because the motability blue badge is one massive bent slush fund.

If someone is dusabled and able to drive saepfely then let them have a Dacia.

Otherwise give them a bus pass.

[regprentice]

2 hours ago, Mrs Bear said:

How is it legal to be using a mobility car provided for someone else who lives 30 miles away?  

 

 

Some mobility car users are not able to drive. My uncle had a disable pass for my gran, she was never in the car but he did her weekly shop with the car. That was enough.

My wife used to work with disabled young adults, one, with significant cerebal palsy, had a peugot 306 soft top, they let him walk into the showroom and pick the car he wanted and he picked that. No cost benefit analysis or needs requirements analysis done. Might not be the same anymore but 8-10 years ago carers were buying laptops and digital cameras for care dependants all the time as part of their job was to ensure their cash in the bank didnt go high enough to jeapordise their benefits (requiring reassesment which could take months.)

Another thing that never made sense to me was smoking. They were to encourage people not to smoke, but people had the right to smoke so if necessary you had to go to the corner shop at 10 at night with their benefits money and buy 20 regali f they asked you to. This is the kind of perverse logic that will never get the care community to sign up to relegating mobility users to a fleet of white dacias.

From the motability website - Named drivers are people you choose to drive your Motability car. Up to two named drivers are included as part of your lease; these can be yourself, friends, family or carers. You can also add a third driver for an additional cost.

[iamnumerate]

1 hour ago, spyguy said:

Because the motability blue badge is one massive bent slush fund.

If someone is dusabled and able to drive saepfely then let them have a Dacia.

Otherwise give them a bus pass.

Hopefully the new government will change this.

Edited April 22, 2017 by iamnumerate

[spyguy]

1 hour ago, regprentice said:

Some mobility car users are not able to drive. My uncle had a disable pass for my gran, she was never in the car but he did her weekly shop with the car. That was enough.

My wife used to work with disabled young adults, one, with significant cerebal palsy, had a peugot 306 soft top, they let him walk into the showroom and pick the car he wanted and he picked that. No cost benefit analysis or needs requirements analysis done. Might not be the same anymore but 8-10 years ago carers were buying laptops and digital cameras for care dependants all the time as part of their job was to ensure their cash in the bank didnt go high enough to jeapordise their benefits (requiring reassesment which could take months.)

Another thing that never made sense to me was smoking. They were to encourage people not to smoke, but people had the right to smoke so if necessary you had to go to the corner shop at 10 at night with their benefits money and buy 20 regali f they asked you to. This is the kind of perverse logic that will never get the care community to sign up to relegating mobility users to a fleet of white dacias.

From the motability website - Named drivers are people you choose to drive your Motability car. Up to two named drivers are included as part of your lease; these can be yourself, friends, family or carers. You can also add a third driver for an additional cost.

Or she could have an extra £5 a week to cover the cost of tesco home delivery.

To be honest, im less wooried about designated drivers, more classifying drunks like a damily member as disabled and them getting a car, which they drive.

Dascia, dmall engine.

Blue badge with parking limited to 20 miles of home address.

[nome]

16 hours ago, opt_out said:

 

The benefits system is only superficially similar, in as much as it's handing out loads of money, it has none of the positive benefits of Basic Income.

 

 

 

Fair point, but I'd still say the current benefit system as it stands is closer to a form of Basic Income than it is to the original concept of the benefit system when it first came into existence.

[durhamborn]

6 hours ago, Hectors House said:

They are actually committing HB fraud because you can bet your life the council don't know he is living there! From memory, To claim HB for mortgage purposes it may be a time limited and then it only pays off the interest! (see SMI - Support for Mortgage Interest), I smell BS on the outrage bus in this thread!

"The following benefits give you some help towards your mortgage costs:

Income Support. This is help for lone parents or carers
Income-based Jobseeker's Allowance (JSA). This is help for people who are looking for work
Pension Credit. This is help for people who are over 60 and on a low income
Income-related Employment and Support Allowance (ESA). This is help for people who are too sick or disabled to work.

Housing costs payments contribute towards the cost of the interest payments on your mortgage. They may also contribute towards the interest payments on loans taken out to pay for repairs or home improvements. Housing costs payments can't be used to pay off any of the capital of your mortgage.

Housing costs are paid at a standard rate of interest, regardless of the rate of interest you are actually paying.

This means that although there can be cases where housing costs payments are higher than the interest you have to pay, in many cases, the payments will be lower. You will have to make up any difference between the interest due to the lender and the amount of interest covered by the housing costs payments. However, if you can't afford to make up the difference, it might be worth asking your lender if they will just accept the housing costs payments for the time being until you can make up the full amount at a later date".

Is the woman claiming she is renting it from her uncle and not declaring she owns it? 

 

The house is owned by the uncle.His niece "rents" it from her uncle.She gets full local housing allowance.The uncle has left the house to her in his will.So the government is paying the mortgage off on the house and when the uncle dies the niece gets the house.

The single but not single are of course fiddling.However there are hundreds and hundreds in each town doing it and nobody apart from the odd token one ever get caught.I dont think a lot of people understand the scale of the benefits scam in the north.Its huge.Before Brown benefits really were benefits.It wasnt nice living on them at all.There was fiddling of course then,but benefits were so low it wasnt a huge problem.

An example is a family i know,The now grandmother brought her two children up in the early 80s on benefits and they were poor.Not starving,ok,but poor.Today?.One of those daughters is also on benefits.Two children both down as ADHD.Partner works away on rigs,not down as living there.They have 3 horses.Two fields,kids all mod cons and are loaded.The difference?.Gordon Brown and a massive structural deficit.

[Democorruptcy]

What's the difference between Help to Buy Bail Banks and shared ownership? The governbankment owns 20%. Could they do housing benefit for the 20% equity loan on new builds, after the initial 5 year interest free loan has ended?