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Qetesuesi

Wot no thread on Prince Harry and mental health?

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A bit surprised to see nothing yet.  Here are a few questions/suggestions for what they may be worth:

How is it that William didn't go crazy like this?  Did he perhaps get more "court attention" being in direct line to the throne?  Or does that two-year age gap make all the difference?  Could anyone on here who lost a parent in childhood perhaps shed some light on this?  My prior understanding was that after Diana's death the boys basically turned to each other for support, but the picture now looks rather different.  Also, that William accepted that the car crash was a pure accident but Harry retained doubts - could that too have something to do with their different long-term MH responses?

Setting that rather prominent set of issues aside, what role was played by the fact that Diana herself was obviously a troubled individual, and (like the boys) suffered from her parents' break-up?  To what extent did she transmit this 'mental heritage' to her son(s), either genetically or by upbringing/example?  Surely they both knew well enough about all her "episodes" and how distant she behaved towards Charles almost as far back as they could remember.  If a parental divorce could do that to her, what might a parental sudden-death-in-youth do to her child(ren)?

At what stage did Harry hear the rumours that his real father was James Hewitt?  What role could this further piece of bad news have played in the mess.

Anything else potentially relevant to accounting for how things turned out?

 

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39 minutes ago, Qetesuesi said:

A bit surprised to see nothing yet.  Here are a few questions/suggestions for what they may be worth:

How is it that William didn't go crazy like this?

...

Anything else potentially relevant to accounting for how things turned out?

Two different people react differently, even if they are brothers. It's not particularly odd.

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"Oh look I am a man of the people please love me, don't question why I get paid to do feck all and oh yeah I'm going to marry this actress too". 

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Losing your mother and then having to walk behind her coffin on live tv with an audience of millions aged 12 is bound to do your head in.

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Mental health is the growing elephant in the room.....massive anxiety and loneliness out there......Harry is right, loss of all kinds, and the pressures of expected high expectations mean people bottle up feelings/emotions, think they are failing/failed and feel shit and inadequate.......openness is part of the healing process.....we are all vaunerable...... authenticity, truth, and sharing ....all good healing actions.....;)

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A few years ago, I would have thought him a wuss, but after several decades of normality, my siblings (and probably I) seem to be suffering from late onset parental relationship issues.

 

(edit, not that they dided young or anything.)

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I think most of the mental health issues in the UK are due to "Build it and they will come".

I saw this Harry thing being discussed on breakfast this morning. Apparently this helps to "Normalise" mental health issues. 

Really ? You can't look anywhere in the media without hearing about mental health issues. 

Doctors hand out anti depressants with barely a thought. 

Personally i think normalising mental health issues in the UK is part of the problem and not the solution. 

Whilst of course i realise there are plenty of folk out there with real issues. I think most are just bored and need to get a grip. 

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6 hours ago, ccc said:

I think most of the mental health issues in the UK are due to "Build it and they will come".

I saw this Harry thing being discussed on breakfast this morning. Apparently this helps to "Normalise" mental health issues. 

Really ? You can't look anywhere in the media without hearing about mental health issues. 

Doctors hand out anti depressants with barely a thought. 

Personally i think normalising mental health issues in the UK is part of the problem and not the solution. 

Whilst of course i realise there are plenty of folk out there with real issues. I think most are just bored and need to get a grip. 

I have suffered a good few years with depression.  This depression was entirely reactive to life events.  For example, I was bullied at school, and I got deeply depressed about that.  I absolutely loathe how the media categorise depression as an illness, like catching the flu.  I'm not saying that "organic" (purely chemical imbalance, not reactive) depression doesn't exist, but for the vast majority of depression sufferers, it's a reactive depression to their environment (nurture, not nature).  By calling depression an "illness", it means that the media don't have to question the causes.  They just say "he caught depression".  If we really questioned WHY people are depressed, we would have to deconstruct modern society. Can't have that.  We must be obedient worker bees.  Shame you caught the depression, take these pills. 

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I'd also add that many people live such low quality lives these days - sitting down all day (in a car, in the office, at home), eating processed foods every meal.  That's a recipe for depression in and of itself.

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Yes good points. 

And all points to my general feelings on the matter that if most people really tried and wanted to - they could sort themselves out.

Us in the west are just given too much time to sit and mope about feeling sorry for ourselves. It's not healthy.

In many other places in the world people literally just don't have the time to get depressed about things. They spend every day just eeking out survival. There is no place to get depressed - even when they have far more reason to be depressed than us lot !!

As you say - i totally agree much of it is down to reacting to life events. It's how each person deals with it that is their choice. 

The old school slap across the face - get a grip of yourself - plan may seem rather harsh. But i really do think it's the solution for most of the UK's so called "Depressed" out there. 

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11 minutes ago, canbuywontbuy said:

I'd also add that many people live such low quality lives these days - sitting down all day (in a car, in the office, at home), eating processed foods every meal.  That's a recipe for depression in and of itself.

Indeed. A lack of exercise causes the so called depression for millions in this country imo. I just think it's long term laziness and boredom that leads to the inevitable "What's the point in this all?" thoughts.

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21 minutes ago, ccc said:

Yes good points. 

And all points to my general feelings on the matter that if most people really tried and wanted to - they could sort themselves out.

Us in the west are just given too much time to sit and mope about feeling sorry for ourselves. It's not healthy.

In many other places in the world people literally just don't have the time to get depressed about things. They spend every day just eeking out survival. There is no place to get depressed - even when they have far more reason to be depressed than us lot !!

As you say - i totally agree much of it is down to reacting to life events. It's how each person deals with it that is their choice. 

The old school slap across the face - get a grip of yourself - plan may seem rather harsh. But i really do think it's the solution for most of the UK's so called "Depressed" out there. 

I also agree that a lot of common sense solutions are out there :-

  • exercise
  • a healthy diet
  • don't be a slave to your peer-group.
  • realising that the passivity of seeking talk-therapy and pills - "let the experts sort me out" - is a form of abandoning personal responsibility.   It's ultimately YOU who sorts YOU out.  I'm not discounting 3rd party help, but the emphasis on 3rd party help is so extreme these days that the notion of personal responsibility is totally lost on most people.  Learned helplessness is ironically listed as a cause of depression, yet many people are stuck in a depressed state because they believe that they can't escape it without excessive 3rd party help.  I shake my head when I hear someone say "I can't work because I'm depressed.  There's no mental health support in my area, so I'm chronically depressed without any help.  I'm stuck".  Honestly, it's pathetic.  Again, I'm not saying this for extreme cases, but the mild-to-moderate reactive depression that millions suffer from can be cured through personal effort and commitment.  The necessary escape velocity comes from within.
  • stop seeing yourself as a victim.  Behaviour follows identity.  If you identify yourself as a victim, you behave like one.  Seeing yourself as a victim is not how you escape depression. 

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I think we're only beginning to understand the mind-body connection. The mind clearly tells some of the body what to do, and it's more than walk in particular direction. Increasingly, it's looking like the body also tells the mind what to think. Both of these work on a conscious and unconscious level. Some areas look utterly unexpected e.g. who'd have thought that microbes in your gut could affect your mood?

To understand and fix problems in this area takes more than a simple pill, or pronouncements from those who likely have never suffered from depression.  I do think there are steps you can take that will help - but not wholly - prevent depression. 

I've been through some pretty horrible experiences, and had some dark periods (but nothing I'd actually describe as depression although others might disagree). The things I found helped prevention wise were:

  • Regular exercise
  • A diet that suits me
  • Meditaton
  • Getting outside
  • Some vitamin supplementation
  • Positive self-talk
  • Helping others
  • Goal setting
  • Daily gratitude practice e.g. a diary.
  • Avoidance of alcohol, tobacco and illegal drugs. Ditto common medications. 
  • Focussing on buying experiences that you can anticipate/talk about rather than objects (especially for others)
  • Paying it forward/doing nice things for relative strangers invisibly.
  • Building social connections (this one not completely cracked yet).
  • Financial security
  • Cutting out TV news. Reduced exposure to other news.
  • Being focussed, but not rigid about rituals around some of the above. 

All of these have been slowly introduced and tested. 

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This whole thing has come about as they are helping on a BBC documentary about ten folk with mental health issues who are running the London marathon this weekend. 

Woman they had on lost her young child a few years ago and 5 days later her husband killed himself. Amazing attitude she has. 

It's people like this who i think really can do with all the help that's out there. But that must be impacted by the huge pressure on the mental health services due to all those who are just a bit down and bored. 

I just don't understand how someone who hasn't gone through something like that not watch it and think to themselves - ****** me i need to get a grip of myself. 

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Strangely Harry is part of the problem.  Societies with less differences between the wealthy and the less wealthy tend to be happier.  Societies with growing wealth divides, like ours, tend to be unhappier.  Having a heredity elite like the Windsors does little to help cohesiveness.  I think Sue Townsend had the right idea - The Queen and I.

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4 hours ago, ccc said:

Indeed. A lack of exercise causes the so called depression for millions in this country imo. I just think it's long term laziness and boredom that leads to the inevitable "What's the point in this all?" thoughts.

Personally speaking I use it as an excuse to turn things back to my usual grumbles - we're hell-bent on building as depressing a world to live in as possible. Cheap, lazy, materialistic, even "efficient" might give short term kicks to the short-sighted but they don't make a more pleasant life, they do make the environment we're in increasingly lifeless and uninspiring, and they do pile on the stress. Unfortunately such a large proportion of the population have become so uncurably addicted to such a world that the only way they can get by is to keep hitting the immediate boosts and distractions, unable to cope with not being constantly stimulated and having lost any ability to truly appreciate anything.

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16 hours ago, canbuywontbuy said:

I'd also add that many people live such low quality lives these days - sitting down all day (in a car, in the office, at home), eating processed foods every meal.  That's a recipe for depression in and of itself.

Yep, walk through any city/town at commute time, the people in the buses and cars are like lab animals, no hope, no future.

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15 hours ago, StainlessSteelCat said:

I think we're only beginning to understand the mind-body connection. The mind clearly tells some of the body what to do, and it's more than walk in particular direction. Increasingly, it's looking like the body also tells the mind what to think. Both of these work on a conscious and unconscious level. Some areas look utterly unexpected e.g. who'd have thought that microbes in your gut could affect your mood?

To understand and fix problems in this area takes more than a simple pill, or pronouncements from those who likely have never suffered from depression.  I do think there are steps you can take that will help - but not wholly - prevent depression. 

I've been through some pretty horrible experiences, and had some dark periods (but nothing I'd actually describe as depression although others might disagree). The things I found helped prevention wise were:

  • Regular exercise
  • A diet that suits me
  • Meditaton
  • Getting outside
  • Some vitamin supplementation
  • Positive self-talk
  • Helping others
  • Goal setting
  • Daily gratitude practice e.g. a diary.
  • Avoidance of alcohol, tobacco and illegal drugs. Ditto common medications. 
  • Focussing on buying experiences that you can anticipate/talk about rather than objects (especially for others)
  • Paying it forward/doing nice things for relative strangers invisibly.
  • Building social connections (this one not completely cracked yet).
  • Financial security
  • Cutting out TV news. Reduced exposure to other news.
  • Being focussed, but not rigid about rituals around some of the above. 

All of these have been slowly introduced and tested. 

Nice. Very very good advice IMO.

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1 hour ago, dances with sheeple said:

Yep, walk through any city/town at commute time, the people in the buses and cars are like lab animals, no hope, no future.

I am typing this to agree - as i sit in my bed on my mobile phone :huh::lol:

But I've walked for 1.5 hours today and done an hour's hard training. I feel great. 

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On 18/04/2017 at 4:52 AM, Errol said:

Not sure why he feels as if he needs to announce this to everybody. All seems a bit strange.

Maybe it just made him feel better? Not sure I'm getting all this Harry hatred, he seems like a nice guy who lost his mum at an early age in horrible circumstances and has had a bit trouble coming to terms with it.

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10 hours ago, TheBlueCat said:

Maybe it just made him feel better? Not sure I'm getting all this Harry hatred, he seems like a nice guy who lost his mum at an early age in horrible circumstances and has had a bit trouble coming to terms with it.

If the starting position is that a monarchy is undemocratic (which is fact). Harry now talking publicly about this is PR. Any why? Well, it's part of an upcoming engagement probably. "Harry, a man of the people - see, he's also had mental health issues and please don't question the monarchy thank you, it's good for you, it's great in fact - see, a wedding!!!"

I have no issues with Harry the human being, but his royalness I do. 

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2 hours ago, Snafu said:

If the starting position is that a monarchy is undemocratic (which is fact). Harry now talking publicly about this is PR. Any why? Well, it's part of an upcoming engagement probably. "Harry, a man of the people - see, he's also had mental health issues and please don't question the monarchy thank you, it's good for you, it's great in fact - see, a wedding!!!"

I have no issues with Harry the human being, but his royalness I do. 

In a way I feel the opposite, our young Royals are part of an important tradition and should act regally. Many people want a Royal Family to be just that.

I have no issue with Harry or William joining in a game of cricket whilst visiting a school etc. they are good hearted chaps that's obvious.

But when I see the heir to the throne mixing it with some celeb, I start to think 'who is using whom here?'. Often the cause is a good one for charity, but I get a feeling they are being used - is it PR for them, the celeb or just more media stories. Ironic that Diana brought with her a lot of media attention.

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6 hours ago, Snafu said:

If the starting position is that a monarchy is undemocratic (which is fact). Harry now talking publicly about this is PR. Any why? Well, it's part of an upcoming engagement probably. "Harry, a man of the people - see, he's also had mental health issues and please don't question the monarchy thank you, it's good for you, it's great in fact - see, a wedding!!!"

I have no issues with Harry the human being, but his royalness I do. 

This was my initial thought too. IMO Harry was a bit of a surprise for the Royal Family - apparently he's very popular especially with 'the kids' and you can see that particularly when he interacts with children in Africa etc. He doesn't have any of his father's social awkwardness. So the 'firm' probably decided to up his PR a bit and PR people have to constantly push positive human interest stories to keep the media on board. 

I support our system of constitutional monarchy, but one of its problems in modern times is that there will be a lot of 'spares' around as well as 'heirs'. We have three people waiting in line for the throne now, which I believe has only happened once before briefly when the future King Edward VIII was a baby in the 1890s. To keep the system going these 'spares' have to be seen to be doing something. 

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