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BoE investigates 'terrifying' rise in borrowing to fund new car purchases


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23 minutes ago, Venger said:

So what are you going to do?

You have to live!   

There are risks in the world. 

Advertising is allowed, and sometimes the advertisers have a great product to go with their advertising.

 

Sure there are some great products about......but you don't take the ads at face value, they have an agenda and will try and influence anyone to buy anything, that is what they are there for, and more often than not add the cost of advertising to their product, so indirectly the customer pays for the cost of the advertising......you ask about and take notice of those you know and trust that have no vested interest, not all but very many of the best products are not aggressively advertised....speaks volumes.;)

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51 minutes ago, Venger said:

Some people believe it's a good idea to run a washing machine on very hot wash at least once a month.  To get rid of all the strong soap powder that can collect and build up around internal parts.     It's continual low-temperature 'eco' washing which is a killer for washing machines imo.   The residue from the power sticks and grimes up and corrodes internal parts such as the spindles.  That's my own 'informed' view.  May be mistaken but it's what I would do, together with believing the guy from washerforums about entry level Miele washing machine being so much better than top of the range from other manufacturers.  Well I would have to do further research for time has past, but I don't need to really worry about that until I'm a homeowner.   And it's all a risk.

And using too much detergent.  Power is best vs tablets for control imo.  And superior to liquid detergents (imo).

Quote

New York Times

Published: March 12, 2010

Go Easy on the Detergent

..“Nobody thinks they use too much soap,” said Vernon Schmidt, who has been a repairman for almost 35 years and is the author of a self-published book, “Appliance Handbook for Women: Simple Enough Even a Man Can Understand.” But apparently most of us are in denial


...Washing machines and dishwashers are made to use far less water now than older models and, therefore, need less soap. And detergents have also become increasingly concentrated. So a little goes a long way.

“Most people use 10 to 15 times the amount of soap they need, and they’re pouring money down the drain,” Mr. Schmidt said.

...Mr. Schmidt, however, argues that depending on how hard or soft your water is, one-eighth to one-half of what is usually recommended should be adequate.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/13/your-money/13shortcuts.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

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21 minutes ago, winkie said:

Sure there are some great products about......but you don't take the ads at face value, they have an agenda and will try and influence anyone to buy anything, that is what they are there for, and more often than not add the cost of advertising to their product, so indirectly the customer pays for the cost of the advertising......you ask about and take notice of those you know and trust that have no vested interest, not all but very many of the best products are not aggressively advertised....speaks volumes.;)

Of course @winkie!   Yet you and a few other HPCers are not the only people who know that, and everyone else just mindless innocents.  

People learn along the way. It's up to them to do their own research and their own analysis and their own cost-benefits.    If manufacturers are so crap or let down buyers, then people look to competitors in future.  There's a balance.  There are risks.  Things break.  If someone wants fancy new car on PCP, every 3 years, it's their choice.  

What is the alternative?   Are you going to bail out those who bought new cars who later regret doing so for they over-reached.  And so many people love having new cars.  It doesn't matter if some HPCers think they are the 'financially-sensible' police and that everyone who buys something they believe overvalued, is a victim/uninformed !!   Egos!

HPC 'informed' control-squad egos bossing everyone around and deciding what is best for them?!  Sneering if they make choices that they personally would not have made.  There are millions of capable minds out there.  If someone makes a car/washing machine decision they regret, it's not 'begin the bailout for the victims'.

Quote

Brands are most vulnerable from new competition in depressions. The 1930s depression saw low-cost competitor Pepsi made a big challenge into Coca-Cola's market. Brands that do not go hand-in-hand with superior products worthy of premium prices are found out in depressions.

There are risks in life.  There are ways to narrow risk.  There is no all-knowing authority to ensure can't make decisions that we later regret.   I look at house prices and recoil in horror.  Others dance in at good value.  Others buy loads of them for BTL, and like Sour Mash believes, 'doing something great in exchange for rent' (and sneery at prospect of a HPC as the alternative, rubbing hands with imagining a renter savings bail-in.  

Market.

Quote

I've read lots of stories of cambelts 'failing' a few thousand miles after they've been changed. I've read only one story about Ford's 10yr 100,000 cambelt engines failing yet by now there must be zillions of them about run by people who make an active or passive decision to leave them alone.

Remember, the motor service trade, like any other service and repair business, exists to turn a profit by advising as much work to be done as the client will accept.

If it works, don't mend it.

 

Quote

There are deep questions here about agency and responsibility. It seems to me that the saying that eternal vigilance is the price of liberty has relevance here. We can imagine ourselves first and foremost as sheeple, prey to advertising and salesmen who have the ability to fit us up with a reality of their choosing or we can imagine ourselves as a free people actively engaged in constructing reality.

 

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To be truthful, those that would never buy a new car are happy, and are reliant on the new car buyers to enable them to purchase their quality cast offs......they have already done the research, running it in, tested it....a good car aged three, chances are is a good car for some years after.....;)

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1 hour ago, Venger said:

So what are you going to do?

You have to live!   

There are risks in the world. 

Advertising is allowed, and sometimes the advertisers have a great product to go with their advertising.

I don't believe a lot of the posts here about 'German' cars.  Looks like self-validation to me, to make themselves feel better about their own personal choices.  And clonking huge egos about people being dragged-in and suckered-in to buying new cars.  (WTF!)   Barricades out.  Protect the innocents.

Some people believe it's a good idea to run a washing machine on very hot wash at least once a month.  To get rid of all the strong soap powder that can collect and build up around internal parts.     It's continual low-temperature 'eco' washing which is a killer for washing machines imo.   The residue from the power sticks and grimes up and corrodes internal parts such as the spindles.  That's my own 'informed' view.  May be mistaken but it's what I would do, together with believing the guy from washerforums about entry level Miele washing machine being so much better than top of the range from other manufacturers.  Well I would have to do further research for time has past, but I don't need to really worry about that until I'm a homeowner.   And it's all a risk.

A washing machine?

You have a washing machine? 

Don't you know that washing machines are for the sheeple?

Washing your clothes by beating them on stones and rubbing in a bar of soap over them can save almost £100 over the course of a year. 

But seriously, German cars are always found to be among the least reliable and Japanese the most. The one Japanese manufacturer that slipped was Nissan after it merged with Renault.

But how highly you rate reliability over other factors is your own business. I am sure that driving a new BMW is probably somewhat more thrilling than driving a slightly dull 2nd hand Japanese car. 

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39 minutes ago, winkie said:

To be truthful, those that would never buy a new car are happy, and are reliant on the new car buyers to enable them to purchase their quality cast offs......they have already done the research, running it in, tested it....a good car aged three, chances are is a good car for some years after.....;)

Can't disagree with that.

Everyone to make their own choice, including new car buyers.

Chances are just that.  There are some exceptions and still requires individual research of each car.  After all it might have been ragged or badly maintained etc.

If I hadn't done my own research with a previous car I might have ended up with expensive to fix gearbox problem (£700+ for repair kit patch thing to £1500+ upward for full replacement).   As it was I paid a bit more for model with the latest factory fitted bolted improved gearbox code, because of... research.

Manufacturer brought out a new model car.  It was only after 3-4 + years that many motorists began to complain of major gearbox trouble.   Issue was that the gearbox had been riveted together.  And over the years, with mileage and time, some of those rivets weakened and sheered off inside the gearbox, and punched holes in gearbox parts and sometimes blasted holes into outer cases.  Sometimes looked like the gearbox case had been shot by a rifle.

Example + pics http://uk-mkivs.net/topic/6294-mk4-16-rivet-problem-pics-finally-posted-em-ofishcal-info-and-repair-thread/

So one 'informed' bit of wisdom I follow as a general rule (but no one else has to in the market full of individual choice), is when looking for a 2nd hand car, consider trying to find one which is factory built toward the end of the line.  Ideally a year or so before the manufacturer releases a new totally different full-scale model change version.  

That way so many of the road niggles and issues that have been reported will have been fixed with updated and improved parts/manufacturing in the factory build, imo.... 5+ years down the model line.   And a few years later they had also sorted out the brake-pedal-switch issues that were common in earlier models.   They improved the locks.  They improved the quality of the brackets the electric windows were positioned on, where on earlier models had become brittle with age, and widows fell into the panel of the doors meaning no windows and an awkward repair job ( and main dealer wanting £300+ as I remember it, but a £40+ a side DIY fix... I forgot I also had to do that).

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8 minutes ago, Ah-so said:

A washing machine?

You have a washing machine? 

Don't you know that washing machines are for the sheeple?

Washing your clothes by beating them on stones and rubbing in a bar of soap over them can save almost £100 over the course of a year. 

But seriously, German cars are always found to be among the least reliable and Japanese the most. The one Japanese manufacturer that slipped was Nissan after it merged with Renault.

But how highly you rate reliability over other factors is your own business. I am sure that driving a new BMW is probably somewhat more thrilling than driving a slightly dull 2nd hand Japanese car. 

:)

That is your market view.  

That is your preference in the market. :)

I don't have anything against those who prefer Japanese cars.   My pal had an old 3.0L Celica, similar to the one below.  It was ace.  Other pal had an old VW Beetle which was fun but major issues with reliability and repairs.   For quite some time I wanted a more modern Celica, and did quite a bit of research, but decided it wasn't really me, and also not that practical longer-term.  

280px-1988_Toyota_Celica_%28ST162%29_SX_liftback_%282015-11-11%29_01.jpg

German... if they were so crap I don't think they would still be getting business.  The badge alone can't save them.  It's not my fault if too many people perhaps lap up everything they are told about servicing/repair costs.  Who  don't know enough to do general serving and basic repairs themselves.  Or don't go to a cheap Independent for more complicated repairs and just pay top whack to a main dealer.   Some of the 'survey' issues might not take all that into account with their lower marks.  I looked at one of those links and I don't have any experience of 'average £250 repair fee' on German cars.   Although it's not until recently got any experience with Mercedes (shared), chosen not for 'thrills'  (although people are allowed their own rush to judgment) but for driving children and prams about in, with some view of comfort and extra-safety.   Also on occasion it does high mileage.   Perhaps it is no safer than other cars, but in a 'financial-sense-police' society, we don't care what other people think.  Choice.

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I'm on my third Nissan almera. They go for about 100k miles before they start to go wrong.

As previous poster mentioned the quality as gone down since Renault merger but I got use to there quirks. The main one is you must change oil ever 9000 miles else it knackers the timing change. Easy to do. The cars it's self are cheap to .j just get properly serviced one

I don't know what car I will buy next but it won't be new . I am think of going for last line model before they change version as they would have iorned most problems out by then.

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I bought a 6 year old Passat last year for 6.5k, top of the range, bought just for work motorway running. Using an independent VW Technician, ive spent about 2k on service and repairs for 30, 000 miles in one year, but to be fair one was a big scheduled service as recommended by the manufacturer, the others have been small beer.

I bought it because they are comfortable and have an excellent reputation.  Apparently good for 300k if well looked after and driven sensibly keep the revs low).Its the most comfortable and dullest car ive ever owned, but for what i need from it vs cost, it is by far the best.

I luckily have an exciting car too just as a hobby, but i will now always buy Passats for work, with other people paying the depreciation for me.

 

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3 hours ago, wsn03 said:

I bought a 6 year old Passat last year for 6.5k, top of the range, bought just for work motorway running. Using an independent VW Technician, ive spent about 2k on service and repairs for 30, 000 miles in one year, but to be fair one was a big scheduled service as recommended by the manufacturer, the others have been small beer.

I bought it because they are comfortable and have an excellent reputation.  Apparently good for 300k if well looked after and driven sensibly keep the revs low).Its the most comfortable and dullest car ive ever owned, but for what i need from it vs cost, it is by far the best.

I luckily have an exciting car too just as a hobby, but i will now always buy Passats for work, with other people paying the depreciation for me.

 

 

I assume a diesel approx 38 to the gallon avg 

http://www.fuelly.com/car/volkswagen/passat

789 gallons a yr 

3606 litres x £1.18 = £4254

£354 a month in fuel 

imo , for around the same purchace price,  i thought it would be cheaper to run a more reilable 2010 -11 prius, @ 55 mpg avg

http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/prius

theres a good reason the taxi drivers dumped passats for priuses. they need less servicing (brakes  hardly ever wear out due to regen  etc) & can go on for over 500k  

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?sort=price-asc&radius=1500&postcode=ch13dn&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly New&onesearchad=New&make=TOYOTA&model=PRIUS&year-from=2010&page=2

Its also worth noting that if you are doing high mileage (perhaps more than you at 40 -50k a year ) , it is worth considering hp or lease on a model s tesla with unlimited mileage warranty 

 

Tesla, one of the safest , fastest accelerating 7 seater cars 

£850 a month contract hire purchase   https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/models/design

so if you did £65k miles a yr, you almost pay the hp monthly instalment on your tesla s, the cheaper tesla 3 series will make this even more attractive at lower mileage.

There are also attractive tax benefits for tesa / ev's over diesel  cars 

 Add in a discounting figure for the good feeling of not helpng to give the kids you drive past ashtma (i'm not judging you, just saying)  

dont forget to deduct  tesla charging costs, overnight 4.5p a mile or free on 20 min supercharger network 

Quote

If you charge your Tesla at home, you will pay approximately 15p/kWh. The Model S will consume about 0.3kWh per mile, so your cost per mile is about 4.5p.

Charging at one of Tesla's 120kW Supercharger stations is completely free, and they have committed to keeping it that way for the lifetime of your car. A Supercharger can give you a half charge in about 20 minutes. The only catch is that the network of Supercharger stations is as yet somewhat limited in the UK:

https://www.quora.com/How-much-does-it-cost-to-charge-a-Tesla-in-the-UK

However, you can also use other charging stations. Ecotricity has a much wider network of charging points which you can use for a £10/year fee. These are not as fast as the Tesla Superchargers but they can deliver up to 50kW if you have the optional CHAadeMo charging adaptor:

Norway has the right idea

Quote

The latest figures show that new battery-powered EVs made up 17.6% of total sales in January. With hybrid cars making up 33.8%, that makes a combined total of 51.4%. Although the totals dropped in February, overall sales for the first two months of the year were split almost exactly 50:50. https://www.transportenvironment.org/news/new-milestone-norway’s-pace-setting-evs

 

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4 hours ago, Saving For a Space Ship said:

 

I assume a diesel approx 38 to the gallon avg 

http://www.fuelly.com/car/volkswagen/passat

789 gallons a yr 

3606 litres x £1.18 = £4254

£354 a month in fuel 

imo , for around the same purchace price,  i thought it would be cheaper to run a more reilable 2010 -11 prius, @ 55mpg

I average 53mpg. When I factor in purchase price, depreciation, etc etc the passat wins for the commuting I do, especially at 45p /mile etc.

The Tesla and all electric cars come with a very expensive catch once they get any age..batteries. For now I'm better off with the Passat 

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20 hours ago, Venger said:

:)

That is your market view.  

That is your preference in the market. :)

I don't have anything against those who prefer Japanese cars.   My pal had an old 3.0L Celica, similar to the one below.  It was ace.  Other pal had an old VW Beetle which was fun but major issues with reliability and repairs.   For quite some time I wanted a more modern Celica, and did quite a bit of research, but decided it wasn't really me, and also not that practical longer-term.  

280px-1988_Toyota_Celica_%28ST162%29_SX_liftback_%282015-11-11%29_01.jpg

German... if they were so crap I don't think they would still be getting business.  The badge alone can't save them.  It's not my fault if too many people perhaps lap up everything they are told about servicing/repair costs.  Who  don't know enough to do general serving and basic repairs themselves.  Or don't go to a cheap Independent for more complicated repairs and just pay top whack to a main dealer.   Some of the 'survey' issues might not take all that into account with their lower marks.  I looked at one of those links and I don't have any experience of 'average £250 repair fee' on German cars.   Although it's not until recently got any experience with Mercedes (shared), chosen not for 'thrills'  (although people are allowed their own rush to judgment) but for driving children and prams about in, with some view of comfort and extra-safety.   Also on occasion it does high mileage.   Perhaps it is no safer than other cars, but in a 'financial-sense-police' society, we don't care what other people think.  Choice.

Thats a gen 4 Celica 2000cc,your mate had a Supra they were 3.0 ( Im a Celica nut,have a 1990 import still going strong!!)

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46 minutes ago, Le Grande Fromage said:

Thats a gen 4 Celica 2000cc,your mate had a Supra they were 3.0 ( Im a Celica nut,have a 1990 import still going strong!!)

Thanks.  I realised after posting that I probably overstated his Celica's engine.  It wasn't a Supra.

I raced to that Celica pic above as my memory of its 'similar' general shape form

Putting a bit more time in to find Celica model it was identical to this one.

(Realise now the 3.0L badge memory was that of an old Capri someone else had at the same time. ).

1 hour ago, Le Grande Fromage said:

 ( Im a Celica nut,have a 1990 import still going strong!!)

Great stuff.  Really.   Don't know what it is but I like the look of them, enjoyed being passenger in a couple of them.  Once read a Celica forum and just a good and happy people vibe there as well, with many a post of enjoyment of their cars.

Quote

 

Celica was originally designed for motorists who love fun and style, and more than just a simple means of transportation.
The name is derived from the Latin word célico meaning "from the heavens" or "celestial".
Through all generations, Celicas have been built around Toyota’s high-performance inline-4 engines.
The plans for the Celica started in 1967.

1970 - 2006 http://www.topspeed.com/cars/toyota/1970-2006-toyota-celica-history-ar16094.html

 

 

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16 hours ago, wsn03 said:

I average 53mpg. When I factor in purchase price, depreciation, etc etc the passat wins for the commuting I do, especially at 45p /mile etc.

The Tesla and all electric cars come with a very expensive catch once they get any age..batteries. For now I'm better off with the Passat 

 

The passat may do that on a run, but it averages 38 mpg. hence my link to 

http://www.fuelly.com/car/volkswagen/passat which is accurately averaged over 1/2 million miles from 100's of drivers stats

Ev batteries are expensive to replace, but usually no more than an equivalent modern cars engine or gear box 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=vw+gearbox&Brand=VW&_sop=16&LH_ItemCondition=1000&_dcat=174105&_osacat=6030&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1311.R1.TR11.TRC1.A0.H0.Xvw+engine+.TRS0&_nkw=vw+engine&_sacat=6030

A Nissan leaf battery has a 5 yr warranty batt, a replacement one is  £5k , but you get £1k back for the old batt. WHich I assume you don't get for an old gearbox / engine 

Tesla batts are more expensive  £12K or so , but they have unlimited mieage warranty for 8 years , have enormous range,, intrinsic trade in value  & how much is a new aston martin or maserati gearbox / engine ?  

Hybrid batts hardly ever go wrong and if they ever do, do a guy wiht ad on ebay can repalcea few cells for £400 

TOYOTA PRIUS ESTIMA HYBRID HV BATTERY REPAIR RE-CONDITIONED SERVICE

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TOYOTA-PRIUS-ESTIMA-HYBRID-HV-BATTERY-REPAIR-RE-CONDITIONED-SERVICE-/121706493460

Toyota Prius Taxi Logs More Than 600,000 Miles; Batteries Last, Apparently (Video)

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1099135_toyota-prius-taxi-logs-more-than-600000-miles-batteries-last-apparently-video

Tesla Model S battery pack data shows very little capacity loss over high mileage

https://electrek.co/2016/06/06/tesla-model-s-battery-pack-data-degradation/

Data shows that the Model S’ battery pack generally only loses about 5% of its capacity within the first 50,000 miles and then the degradation significantly slows down with higher mileage. Plug-in America’s data shows several vehicles with over 100,000 miles driven and less than 8% degradation.

The above comments aside, passats have had a good rep, but I wondered if the passat comes under the dieselgate scandal? I guess new & resale values will be affected as the brand is damaged as poisoning your customers & lying to them about high mpg figures is sociopathic / self destuctive.  

 UK VW owners launch bid for £3000 compensation

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motoring/uk-vw-owners-launch-bid-£3000-compensation

Edited by Saving For a Space Ship
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On 4/22/2017 at 8:54 PM, Venger said:

Everyone to make their own choice, including new car buyers.

 

This is your constant mantra; and one that many on here are sceptical about. Is it true? Frankly I have my doubts when it all comes down to it.

This isn't just a question of nature versus nurture, it's a question of whether our choices can be influenced. Now that they can be is pretty obvious so where does that put the notion of free will which is at the heart of choice. The banks have had to shell out the thick end of £30bn on PPI claims precisely because people apparently couldn't make the sort of choice you are advocating.

Now I'm not saying your inclinations are wrong; in fact I agree with them and the corollary of personal responsibility; but l'm inclined to believe that the notion of choice is somewhat illusory and that many folk are simply sucked into arrangements that are clearly against their interests. However, you could define the whole capitalistic system as the restless search for a sucker so perhaps we'd be better off letting sleeping dogs lie.

Will there be a PCP misselling scandal? It wouldn't surprise me.

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30 minutes ago, Saving For a Space Ship said:

 

The passat may do that on a run, but it averages 38 mpg. hence my link to 

http://www.fuelly.com/car/volkswagen/passat which is accurately averaged over 1/2 million miles from 100's of drivers stats

Ev batteries are expensive to replace, but usually no more than an equivalent modern cars engine or gear box 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=vw+gearbox&Brand=VW&_sop=16&LH_ItemCondition=1000&_dcat=174105&_osacat=6030&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1311.R1.TR11.TRC1.A0.H0.Xvw+engine+.TRS0&_nkw=vw+engine&_sacat=6030

A Nissan leaf battery has a 5 yr warranty batt, a replacement one is  £5k , but you get £1k back for the old batt. WHich I assume you don't get for an old gearbox / engine 

Tesla batts are more expensive  £12K or so , but they have unlimited mieage warranty for 8 years , have enormous range,, intrinsic trade in value  & how much is a new aston martin or maserati gearbox / engine ?  

Hybrid batts hardly ever go wrong and if they ever do, do a guy wiht ad on ebay can repalcea few cells for £400 

TOYOTA PRIUS ESTIMA HYBRID HV BATTERY REPAIR RE-CONDITIONED SERVICE

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TOYOTA-PRIUS-ESTIMA-HYBRID-HV-BATTERY-REPAIR-RE-CONDITIONED-SERVICE-/121706493460

Toyota Prius Taxi Logs More Than 600,000 Miles; Batteries Last, Apparently (Video)

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1099135_toyota-prius-taxi-logs-more-than-600000-miles-batteries-last-apparently-video

Tesla Model S battery pack data shows very little capacity loss over high mileage

https://electrek.co/2016/06/06/tesla-model-s-battery-pack-data-degradation/

Data shows that the Model S’ battery pack generally only loses about 5% of its capacity within the first 50,000 miles and then the degradation significantly slows down with higher mileage. Plug-in America’s data shows several vehicles with over 100,000 miles driven and less than 8% degradation.

The above comments aside, passats have had a good rep, but I wondered if the passat comes under the dieselgate scandal? I guess new & resale values will be affected as the brand is damaged as poisoning your customers & lying to them about high mpg figures is sociopathic / self destuctive.  

 UK VW owners launch bid for £3000 compensation

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motoring/uk-vw-owners-launch-bid-£3000-compensation

Great information thank you. 

My friend has a Tesla, as a petrol head I am completely sold on it. I just need the maths to stack up, the cars to get a little bit cheaper. I also have to do on street parking while we stay with my Mother in-law to help out with the babies. When we move back to my house plug in charging won't be an issue. 

My mileage is correct for my commute, 60 miles each way all on motorway. Any other journeys for non work are in my wife's smaller petrol  car, or my  trusted old 206 Peugeot, 50+mpg.

As an all rounder only car the Passat wouldn't win the contest. It also needs to be considered in now have 3 kids so a big estate is a must for when we travel anywhere, something Tesla don't yet address.

 

I will study your info and keep an eye on the future costings and offering. I will be driving something clever eventually!

 

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37 minutes ago, crouch said:

This is your constant mantra; and one that many on here are sceptical about. Is it true? Frankly I have my doubts when it all comes down to it.

This isn't just a question of nature versus nurture, it's a question of whether our choices can be influenced. Now that they can be is pretty obvious so where does that put the notion of free will which is at the heart of choice. The banks have had to shell out the thick end of £30bn on PPI claims precisely because people apparently couldn't make the sort of choice you are advocating.

Now I'm not saying your inclinations are wrong; in fact I agree with them and the corollary of personal responsibility; but l'm inclined to believe that the notion of choice is somewhat illusory and that many folk are simply sucked into arrangements that are clearly against their interests. However, you could define the whole capitalistic system as the restless search for a sucker so perhaps we'd be better off letting sleeping dogs lie.

Will there be a PCP misselling scandal? It wouldn't surprise me.

Well left to the control-squad, I wouldn't be driving a Mercedes.  

Other people thinking they know what is best for other people.  (Beyond the extent of laws/rules/warnings/ health-and-safety etc)

It's ridiculous.  We are a free people.  Not to be controlled by people who have out-of-control egos, and believe their way is best.

Also name or bring in your 'many' supporters who doubt my position about people being able to make their own life/market choices, instead of creating your own imaginary cheerleaders as being against me.  It's my firm hope there are fewer 'In the Top 5%' know-what's-best for other people' around.  

Individuals choose in the market. 

Quote

 

...Individuals are also informed by incentives that make it "economically rational" for some individuals to adopt counterproductive habits and behaviour.

..The premise of economic rationality, which holds that individuals act to increase their surplus of reward over cost, is probably the deepest truth of human life. But it does not necessarily imply that people act rationally in the scientific sense.  People are naturally lazy and present-centered.  They may neglect the facts, employ techniques that are scientifically preposterous, and override immediate cost/benefit considerations to conform to counterproductive values.

These anomalies reflect the high value of immediate satisfaction and the fact that effort is costly.  To gather and process information requires work.  It is just as if an individual who wished to update their perceptions were obliged to scale a twelve-foot wall in order to look around.  After repeating this exercise
a few times, even the more energetic among us would tend to 'make do' with old information.  

This is what happens.  Humans employ many shortcuts to economies on information and avoid computing anew what is most profitable in each circumstances.  

These shortcuts parade under a variety of names. Some are simply "habits."  More complex or overriding responses involve "values."    Values reflect what used to pay.  They incorporate cost/benefit calculations from the past.

-Davidson.

 

I will get back to you later @crouch... got to go to work in a Mercedes Benz.

BTW, I am still loving Section 24 @crouch.  Maybe you should stick to not understanding GAAP, and being narked by Section24.  You can keep dreaming on Section24 being overturned as well.  It's the reality.  Political risk.  Rules and attitude adjustment.

 

Edited by Venger
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42 minutes ago, Venger said:

 

Well left to the control-squad, I wouldn't be driving a Mercedes.  

Other people thinking they know what is best for other people.  (Beyond the extent of laws/rules/warnings/ health-and-safety etc)

It's ridiculous.  We are a free people.  Not to be controlled by people who have out-of-control egos, and believe their way is best.

 

 

"We are a free people". Well, that is an assertion but it rather assumes what you are required to demonstrate. My attitude is exactly the same as yours; you take responsibility but I'm afraid that the notion of free choice is rather tricky. After all why would the banks have spent £30bn on PPI claims if your (and my) notion of being a "free people" had any validity; it rather assumes they don't? £30bn is a fairly hefty QED that proves that we don't. If your notion was valid there would be no PPI misselling claims.

Knowing what is best for others has nothing to do with it; it's about how we can be unduly influenced and, frankly, I have several million years of history on my side so its' not much of a contest.

We may both be laudable but rather naive.

BTW as regards S24 I don't mind if I'm in a minority and that I'm right when everyone is wrong; it's all part of the same mindset as I'm sure you'll agree.

Must go now; just off to do some shopping in my BMW (old and not bought on lease).

 

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There are clearly 2 issues here:

1. Debt and the way people are being encouraged to drown themselves in it

2. Peoples choice on cars. I like cars, i have 3. A luxury sports classic hobby, a boring business mile muncher and an old banger. I get the biggest kick out of the old banger, but each to their own 

Edited by wsn03
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3 hours ago, crouch said:

This is your constant mantra; and one that many on here are sceptical about. Is it true? Frankly I have my doubts when it all comes down to it.

This isn't just a question of nature versus nurture, it's a question of whether our choices can be influenced. Now that they can be is pretty obvious so where does that put the notion of free will which is at the heart of choice. The banks have had to shell out the thick end of £30bn on PPI claims precisely because people apparently couldn't make the sort of choice you are advocating.

Now I'm not saying your inclinations are wrong; in fact I agree with them and the corollary of personal responsibility; but l'm inclined to believe that the notion of choice is somewhat illusory and that many folk are simply sucked into arrangements that are clearly against their interests. However, you could define the whole capitalistic system as the restless search for a sucker so perhaps we'd be better off letting sleeping dogs lie.

Will there be a PCP misselling scandal? It wouldn't surprise me.

The governbankmen's tax policies influence choices?

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4 hours ago, wsn03 said:

Great information thank you. 

My friend has a Tesla, as a petrol head I am completely sold on it. I just need the maths to stack up

I will study your info and keep an eye on the future costings and offering. I will be driving something clever eventually!

Toyota's hybrid tech is absolutely bombproof as long as it's serviced correctly - but you don't need a dull dog slow Prius to enjoy it.

I run a Lexus GS450 hybrid, which is a genuine performance hybrid, not a tax dodge like some other models. It is almost silent during normal driving. It is completely seamless and smooth as it has constantly variable transmission rather than gears. I get between 30 and 44mpg. The 2012- models are 10% more economical with no loss of performance - and the performance is pretty ballistic 

https://youtu.be/id4UtoyiJxk

Should I wear out the batteries, an independent specialist in Northampton rebuilds them for £800 - less than the cost of having a dual mass flywheel or turbo replaced on many bog standard diesels.

They start at about £12-13k from Lexus as an approved used car with 2 year manufacturers warranty.

Perhaps a model you should consider until the maths stack up on a Tesla?

I'm another who would like Tesla eventually but unwilling to spend the sort of money they command at present.

 

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On 4/15/2017 at 8:14 AM, Bruce Banner said:

These days it's difficult to find out the purchase price of a new car, all pricing is in pounds per month. When you do find out the only way to get a discount is to take out finance and cancel it after a month. Car dealers definitely dislike outright purchases.

Especially if you don't give in to the high pressure to take GAP insurance (insurance on your insurance - wtf??) or the paint protection. They make virtually no money on the sticker price alone.

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On 4/20/2017 at 8:43 PM, Sour Mash said:

OK, since you seem to have a Merc on a finance deal it seems that a nerve has been touched. :lol:

Presumably in the same spirit of not commenting on finance deals on cars and their suitability for the general public you won't be decrying people for borrowing loadsamoney on various dodgy mortgage products to bid houses up to silly levels in the future ?

Important difference: factories churn out more cars relentlessly, but you can't manufacture more land.

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On 4/22/2017 at 2:45 PM, Saving For a Space Ship said:

Spoke to a friend in the motor trade, he's just renewed his 3 yr vw polo lease for his vat registered biz.

The base model sells outright for £12k (10k - vat ) 

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/new/polo-gp/home 

He said to VW he wanted the same deal as before. £125 a month inc vat , 8k miles a yr 

Downpayment was £805 inc vat so £670.83 plus vat, he can claim all the vat back including on the payments

 

You can only claim back 50% VAT as it is assumed that there is some personal use.

In order to claim 100% the vehicle must be available for personal use, so cannot be parked in your driveway for example. There was a big test case involving (I kid you not) a Lamborghini that was used for delivering refills to cigarette vending machines in London clubs, and the business owner claimed the VAT back on the Lambo. He won on appeal  in the end but HMRC made it very difficult:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/4467498/Purple-super-car-an-untaxable-asset-for-a-top-fag-man.html

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8 hours ago, wsn03 said:

There are clearly 2 issues here:

1. Debt and the way people are being encouraged to drown themselves in it

2. Peoples choice on cars. I like cars, i have 3. A luxury sports classic hobby, a boring business mile muncher and an old banger. I get the biggest kick out of the old banger, but each to their own 

3.  Other people thinking their choice all sweetness, the best, and highly informed.   And that other people lessor, or taken advantage of, if they choose differently.

Yes, each to their own. 

Three cars?  One could point to you being total victim of advertising and not able to make your own choice in life, because seemingly 'not financially sensible' (3 x road tax, 3 x insurance, 3x servicing and repairs).  

That's how some people seem to position, where I totally defend your three car choice.  

You may prefer the banger for fun, but if someone gets a big kick out of new expensive PCP car, then I defend their choice.  All individuals and new car vs banger doesn't make either side the better individual.  

Can't put up barricades to stop people making their own choices, or force them to take a HPCer's exam to prove they understand the world in the same 'best' way certain HPCers believe they understand things.

There is advertising.   It's a multi-billion pound industry.  It serves a purpose.  Someone makes something, or has a service to offer.... they advertise it to target groups.  

Debt is normally from a contract.  A promise to repay.  I keep my promises.  It's all pretty simple.   No one is dragging anyone in to 'victim' new car choices.  Individuals can choose and all have their own adult minds.

Caught an episode of some High Court Debt Enforcement Officers TV show last week (The Sheriffs), it's not all cuddles when people default on their debts, so if people want to believe that new car buyers don't know what they have done, and that there is compensation coming for them regardless if they can pay or default, so be it.

Advertising... are we all so weak willed that we can't resist advert.  It's a multi-billion industry.  Sure it casts products in best light.  It also brings together customers with products.  Offers them choice to buy.  To do further research.   I've just seen a £600 holiday package/flight banner ad on HPC (not going on any foreign holidays any time soon).  Financial company offering its services for investing ISA allowance this tax year.  (Got to give that more thought).   A banner for some  Sennheiser bluetooth wireless headphones, probably linked to some of my own keyword searches, for I began researching such headphones last week.  My old non-bluetooth set are ancient and falling apart.   It's a market out there.   

Some of those taking on big debt are those willing to outbid others by vast amounts for houses in the housing market, where we all have to position and take a stance on affordability and value.  Market.  

Quote

 

..there is a strand of thinking amongst some posters that people are somehow not making active decisions when they buy, and this notion of programming is one way in which this strand of thinking is expressed.

I think that the analysis is superficially attractive because it casts the analyst as the individual who can see what others cannot, or perhaps we are envisaging that we are immune to the programming for some reason?

..knowing what is best for other people when they make choices that differ to your own, or casting them as victims in those new car decisions....  a special brand of completely unwarranted superiority.

 

 

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  • 429 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • up 5%



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