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5 hours ago, satsuma said:

Tesla is moving to rigid body of stamped metal, these will be unrepairable.  I suppose this is not a factor for the average Tesla aspirational buyer.

Stamped is what we have today, a couple of hundred stamped pieces welded together by a long line of expensive robots.

The worry about repair costs is overblown, BMW have refused to repair any bent structural item for at over 10 years now. In 2009 I had a newish 5 series written off for what was little more than a scrape down the side. 

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Most people will move away from owning a personal car imo.  Pointless expense if and when you can rent one by the hour easily.

Many car manufacturers are going to go too the wall over the coming decade as they've been pedaling terrible overpriced rubbish for long enough now.

Heard on the radio this morning a law suit being logged against Mercedes Benz for fitting diesel cheat devices to their cars since the mid 2000's......lol.

Diesel has actually finished off the motor industry, all because middle class types wahted to save a few quid at the pumps.  Petrol should have always been the ICE fuel of choice for private cars, but now that's been thrown out too so we can all drive crappy electric abominations.

 

No thanks.

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9 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Stamped is what we have today, a couple of hundred stamped pieces welded together by a long line of expensive robots.

The worry about repair costs is overblown, BMW have refused to repair any bent structural item for at over 10 years now. In 2009 I had a newish 5 series written off for what was little more than a scrape down the side. 

This will not pass muster under the pending EU right to repair Regulations, I can see Tesla and the others having to stop the plan to produce this rubbish in the EU.  

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1 hour ago, Social Justice League said:

Most people will move away from owning a personal car imo.  Pointless expense if and when you can rent one by the hour easily.

Many car manufacturers are going to go too the wall over the coming decade as they've been pedaling terrible overpriced rubbish for long enough now.

Heard on the radio this morning a law suit being logged against Mercedes Benz for fitting diesel cheat devices to their cars since the mid 2000's......lol.

Diesel has actually finished off the motor industry, all because middle class types wahted to save a few quid at the pumps.  Petrol should have always been the ICE fuel of choice for private cars, but now that's been thrown out too so we can all drive crappy electric abominations

Rent a car by he hour might work in cities and densely  populated areas like the SE  of England.  But I can't see it happening in rural areas as there may not be enough demand.  People prize their independence and will be reluctant to give up their cars.

Diesel is great if you have a heavy vehicle, and cars are getting bigger and heavier with every model change, collision protection, power steering, air con, electric windows and seats, emission control equipment  etc.  The government were very keen on diesel to reduce overall emissions, but it wasn't implemented very well.  Part of the reduced fuel consumption of diesel comes from the higher density of diesel fuel, and part from the higher compression ratio of the engine.  But getting a clean diesel, especially in small sizes is a challenge.  A petrol engines attempts to be a stoichiometric device, so should be cleaner burning.

Electric cars are in their early stages of development and offer zero emissions at point of use and don't have the potential hazards of hydrogen as a fuel.

If I were a gambling man, and I thank the Lord that I'm not, I would back electric cars over petrol.  Small diesel is dead, but has a bright future for heavy haulage, rail and shipping.

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1 hour ago, Social Justice League said:

Most people will move away from owning a personal car imo.  Pointless expense if and when you can rent one by the hour easily.

Many car manufacturers are going to go too the wall over the coming decade as they've been pedaling terrible overpriced rubbish for long enough now.

Heard on the radio this morning a law suit being logged against Mercedes Benz for fitting diesel cheat devices to their cars since the mid 2000's......lol.

Diesel has actually finished off the motor industry, all because middle class types wahted to save a few quid at the pumps.  Petrol should have always been the ICE fuel of choice for private cars, but now that's been thrown out too so we can all drive crappy electric abominations.

 

No thanks.

To be honest I am holding off buying a new motor as i do dispair at the state of what is on offer.  There is a gap in the market for well built cars like the Germans made int he past.  

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10 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Stamped is what we have today, a couple of hundred stamped pieces welded together by a long line of expensive robots.

The worry about repair costs is overblown, BMW have refused to repair any bent structural item for at over 10 years now. In 2009 I had a newish 5 series written off for what was little more than a scrape down the side. 

You are not forced to take the car to bmw. However they do use a glue system for some panel's.

Seems the quote to repair by the bodyshop was too much for the loss adjuster to sign the work off.

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1 hour ago, satsuma said:

Yea, they make toy cars like that in years gone by, you could get one with the comics from your corner shop

If you have a big enough balance, Yeah Telsa are fast fun toys.  Stealth saloons and SUV's that are hot hatch and supercar killers. 

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1 hour ago, satsuma said:

This will not pass muster under the pending EU right to repair Regulations, I can see Tesla and the others having to stop the plan to produce this rubbish in the EU.  

Good luck. We make it our way or we move the Berlin Factory to the UK. and the EU loses 1000's of high paid jobs. No shut up and let us sell out cars. What dont you understand about the cars will still have panels, it's sturctural damage that will write the car off, and 90% of structural damage claims now are already write offs , even brand now. 

I had a serious heavy accident in BMW i3 in 2017 , 6 months old, £40k car, under 20k miles.  Structural front damage. Write off.  You are telling me for £30k cost they couldn't have repaired it? BMW's own main UK repair centre up north refused to repair it basically. 

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27 minutes ago, longgone said:

You are not forced to take the car to bmw. However they do use a glue system for some panel's.

Seems the quote to repair by the bodyshop was too much for the loss adjuster to sign the work off.

I insisted it go to BMW which triggered the write off. If you get any structural work done to a BMW by an unapproved body shop BMW will refuse to take it into their resale network which significantly devalues it.  

1 hour ago, satsuma said:

This will not pass muster under the pending EU right to repair Regulations, I can see Tesla and the others having to stop the plan to produce this rubbish in the EU.  

It doesn't cover cars, isn't planned to, and even if it did wouldn't cover structural damage.

Anyway as the cast bodies with the integral bonded battery pack are expected to be 3 times stronger than today's bodies (and the Model S is already the safest car on the road), I think any drivers in an accident bad enough to write it off will be very happy they were in it.

1 hour ago, satsuma said:

To be honest I am holding off buying a new motor as i do dispair at the state of what is on offer.  There is a gap in the market for well built cars like the Germans made int he past.  

More nonsense, cars are better than they have ever been. I would rather drive a 2020 Fiesta than anything from 10 years ago. 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

More nonsense, cars are better than they have ever been. I would rather drive a 2020 Fiesta than anything from 10 years ago. 

 

 

Anything ? Felt pretty safe in my 2000 model Arnage 2.5 tonnes - I figured your Fiesta was my first Airbag..

Cars are safer doesn't necessarily make them better and a lot of that safety anyway is years old ABS for example.  Everything else is dressing when can I put an airbag next

In fact late 90's Mercs are built like tanks and again would use your Fiesta as an airbag 

The changes over the last 20 years have been small and marginal - the law of diminishing returns the big advances include safety glass, airbags, abs, dashboard design, collapsible steering columns etc but all have been around for a long time 

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7 minutes ago, GregBowman said:

Anything ? Felt pretty safe in my 2000 model Arnage 2.5 tonnes - I figured your Fiesta was my first Airbag..

Cars are safer doesn't necessarily make them better and a lot of that safety anyway is years old ABS for example.  Everything else is dressing when can I put an airbag next

In fact late 90's Mercs are built like tanks and again would use your Fiesta as an airbag 

The changes over the last 20 years have been small and marginal - the law of diminishing returns the big advances include safety glass, airbags, abs, dashboard design, collapsible steering columns etc but all have been around for a long time 

I was talking about driving not crashing. I would far rather be hustling the Fiesta down some good driving roads than your Arnage, which would soon be in a tree if it tried to keep up. 

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1 hour ago, markyh said:

Good luck. We make it our way or we move the Berlin Factory to the UK. and the EU loses 1000's of high paid jobs. No shut up and let us sell out cars. What dont you understand about the cars will still have panels, it's sturctural damage that will write the car off, and 90% of structural damage claims now are already write offs , even brand now. 

I had a serious heavy accident in BMW i3 in 2017 , 6 months old, £40k car, under 20k miles.  Structural front damage. Write off.  You are telling me for £30k cost they couldn't have repaired it? BMW's own main UK repair centre up north refused to repair it basically. 

Well this does make my point, one small ding and these cars are written off!!!!  Any damage to the front end of these cars will result in the car been written off.  Funny but you never see a person buying a second Tesla.  As for moving the factory to the UK, that is hilarious (I assume that was intended to be funny).  

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1 hour ago, Confusion of VIs said:

I was talking about driving not crashing. I would far rather be hustling the Fiesta down some good driving roads than your Arnage, which would soon be in a tree if it tried to keep up. 

LOL actually as the saying goes from Bentley all our cars our sports cars Sir. Adaptive suspension works a treat with some advanced driving techniques - took her when I had her on a driving tour around Europe easy kept up with the 911's and BMW's in fact 2nd only to a previous gen Type R driven by an ex police driver.

Fuel stops were quite frequent though. From reviews of the time....

'Yes it may weigh as much as some people's houses, but all models boast massive reserves of power and a surprisingly sporty chassis and suspension set up. Indeed when the Arnage is worked hard, it doesn't so much shrink around the driver as remind him of a BMW M5 with a gentleman's club makeover'

I would rather be in my gentleman's club ;)

Edited by GregBowman
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46 minutes ago, msi said:

The type where you need a handful of fivers to place in performers thongs?

I don't what you mean ! 

But in a strange twist to link the comments together on that car tour. We had to join late because I had someone's birthday party booked. So my mate drove her up town it was around St Pauls in London 

I made my way out we exchanged pleasantries and were about to drive away when there was a 'Hi' from the back seat it was one of those ladies obviously  a bit of an opportunist  and she asked us where we were going - we said Europe she said fine ! we let her down gently but did talk about what could of been for the next few hundred miles

You don't get that with a 2020 Fiesta...

Edited by GregBowman
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3 hours ago, satsuma said:

Well this does make my point, one small ding and these cars are written off!!!!  Any damage to the front end of these cars will result in the car been written off.  Funny but you never see a person buying a second Tesla.  As for moving the factory to the UK, that is hilarious (I assume that was intended to be funny).  

🤣🤣🤣 We have two sitting on the drive. What is it about Tesla that makes people who have never owned or driven one have such strong opinions?

As comments go you are about as wrong as it is possible to be

Tesla Model S is the highest evaluated car by Consumer Reports and has the highest consumer satisfaction rating. 98% of the respondents in Consumer Reports' Annual Auto Survey stated that they would definitely buy the car again. Tesla Model S is way ahead of all other plug-in cars, hybrids and conventional cars by over 10%.

At some point in the past Tesla's result was 99%, so don't be surprised to hear in less favorable media that the number of dissatisfied Tesla owners doubled. 

2 hours ago, GregBowman said:

LOL actually as the saying goes from Bentley all our cars our sports cars Sir. Adaptive suspension works a treat with some advanced driving techniques - took her when I had her on a driving tour around Europe easy kept up with the 911's and BMW's in fact 2nd only to a previous gen Type R driven by an ex police driver.

Fuel stops were quite frequent though. From reviews of the time....

'Yes it may weigh as much as some people's houses, but all models boast massive reserves of power and a surprisingly sporty chassis and suspension set up. Indeed when the Arnage is worked hard, it doesn't so much shrink around the driver as remind him of a BMW M5 with a gentleman's club makeover'

I would rather be in my gentleman's club ;)

I didn't want to do you a disservice so looked at the Top Gear lap times. A Fiesta ST (nothing fancy only 180bhp version) went round 8s faster than the Arnage.  To be fair the Arnage run was very wet so using the normal discount 4s faster (A M5 F10 also very wet run went round 11s faster). 

Edited by Confusion of VIs
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56 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

🤣🤣🤣 We have two sitting on the drive. What is it about Tesla that makes people who have never owned or driven one have such strong opinions?

As comments go you are about as wrong as it is possible to be

Tesla Model S is the highest evaluated car by Consumer Reports and has the highest consumer satisfaction rating. 98% of the respondents in Consumer Reports' Annual Auto Survey stated that they would definitely buy the car again. Tesla Model S is way ahead of all other plug-in cars, hybrids and conventional cars by over 10%.

At some point in the past Tesla's result was 99%, so don't be surprised to hear in less favorable media that the number of dissatisfied Tesla owners doubled. 

I didn't want to do you a disservice so looked at the Top Gear lap times. A Fiesta ST (nothing fancy only 180bhp version) went round 8s faster than the Arnage.  To be fair the Arnage run was very wet so using the normal discount 4s faster (A M5 F10 also very wet run went round 11s faster). 

We aren't thinking they are a direct comparison are we ? They are slightly different demographics (when new in ownership) 

Just goes to show cars are a funny purchase we all look at them differently and have different wants

I would probably take that 8s who wouldn't and arrive in Bentley though :) 

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7 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

I insisted it go to BMW which triggered the write off. If you get any structural work done to a BMW by an unapproved body shop BMW will refuse to take it into their resale network which significantly devalues it.  

 

 

 

As long as the repair was not notifiable and the damage was not physically very severe. No one would have know otherwise. Independent coachshops do know how to repair these cars with the glued system bmw use on some cars.

I'm guessing you never lost out financially though maybe a gap policy or if less than a year old an identical replacement.

Writing off cars is in the interest of manufacturing though, rinse and repeat.

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8 hours ago, GregBowman said:

Anything ? Felt pretty safe in my 2000 model Arnage 2.5 tonnes - I figured your Fiesta was my first Airbag..

Cars are safer doesn't necessarily make them better and a lot of that safety anyway is years old ABS for example.  Everything else is dressing when can I put an airbag next

In fact late 90's Mercs are built like tanks and again would use your Fiesta as an airbag 

The changes over the last 20 years have been small and marginal - the law of diminishing returns the big advances include safety glass, airbags, abs, dashboard design, collapsible steering columns etc but all have been around for a long time 

 

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14 hours ago, longgone said:

As long as the repair was not notifiable and the damage was not physically very severe. No one would have know otherwise. Independent coachshops do know how to repair these cars with the glued system bmw use on some cars.

I'm guessing you never lost out financially though maybe a gap policy or if less than a year old an identical replacement.

Writing off cars is in the interest of manufacturing though, rinse and repeat.

Totally agree.  Making products easily fixable isn't what manufacturers want, as they want to sell you the same thing again and again until you kick the bucket.  (consumerism in action)

Best not to play their game and refuse to buy their cheap rubbish.

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