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BoE investigates 'terrifying' rise in borrowing to fund new car purchases


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Each to their own.

Seems to me there are many real sneery tw@ts sat in judgment of people who have chosen to buy (or just have access to) nice new modern cars.

They are the people with the problem.

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*****Dwelling on your brother's (imaginary) faults, said The Buddha,
only multiplies your own and you are far from The Way.*****

And most car buyers happy with their choices in the moment.  Able and capable.  Monthly lump sum on PCP.  So glad the control freaks are not in charge.

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Each to their own but I do think it's a shame that for the young new drivers, leasing might become seen/accepted as the ONLY way to run a car. 

The days of buying and running a older car cheaply and learning to do basic repairs like brake discs and servicing yourself could be (or maybe already is) a thing of the past, which is a waste because cars are generally so reliable now, especially German cars if you pick something with a straightforward petrol engine. The skills passed down through families and Friends will be lost.

I had a cheap end PCP new car for a few years but decided it wasn't for me (especially after another vehicle hit and run it when parked up, causing about a grand's worth of damage) I went back to buying a used car privately and doing some bits of maintenance myself.

I work in a rough area of Bolton, and it is staggering how many new flash cars are being driven around and parked up at the supermarkets.

I remember the odd friend getting a small new car on finance back in 1997-1999, so it was possible to do it that way back then, why has it taken until recent years to become so popular?

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Andy T said:

Each to their own but I do think it's a shame that for the young new drivers, leasing might become seen/accepted as the ONLY way to run a car. 

The days of buying and running a older car cheaply and learning to do basic repairs like brake discs and servicing yourself could be (or maybe already is) a thing of the past, which is a waste because cars are generally so reliable now, especially German cars if you pick something with a straightforward petrol engine. The skills passed down through families and Friends will be lost.

I had a cheap end PCP new car for a few years but decided it wasn't for me (especially after another vehicle hit and run it when parked up, causing about a grand's worth of damage) I went back to buying a used car privately and doing some bits of maintenance myself.

I work in a rough area of Bolton, and it is staggering how many new flash cars are being driven around and parked up at the supermarkets.

I remember the odd friend getting a small new car on finance back in 1997-1999, so it was possible to do it that way back then, why has it taken until recent years to become so popular?

Except it isn't *the only way*

Just because you chose leasing doesn't mean everyone else has or does.

Sure plenty of young people may do, but what about all the others who walk, cycle and run old cars.

You can't read the tides from watching how just a few waves break.

Tell it to some younger people I know of with older cars, renting homes, and with £50K+ in the bank, positioned to buy when the 'vicitm' HPIers/BTLers take a knock.

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19 hours ago, Bear Hug said:

The point of some of the leases is that they are cheaper than depreciation.  Some, not all.  I also hate the process of selling a car, unless it's an old banger for a few hundred pounds:

- dealer will offer well below the value to keep some profit

- Webuyanycar would give a reasonable initial price but then knock off a hundred for every little scratch

- Private buyers will turn up for a few test drives (are they even insured?), then eventually make a bank transfer (what if they reverse it?) or bring a bag full of money (is it real?)

So lots of stress all around!

I've been through a process of selling 4 used cars (priced between £500 and £6000) and it stressed me out and I hated every minute of it every time.

A lease that works out less than depreciation is a no-brainer choice, though the whole point of those offering them is that it shouldn't so you are relying on them to screw up or some unforeseen 'black swan' to help you out.

eg. I know that VW finance was offering some very cheap lease deals on Golf GTDs before 'Dieselgate' hit the news, I imagine that will cost them quite a bit now that the secondhand value of VW diesels has taken a hit.

 

And I agree that it's worth a premium to many people to avoid the stress of selling/trade-in.  Trade-ins are always a ripoff (the dealer has the whip hand as they can adjust the price of new car and the trade-in given on the old one as they wish, to maintain their desired profit margin) and selling privately can entail having to deal with loads of complete idiot members of the public ... timewasters, tyre kickers, chancers, people who back out at he last moment, dealers posing as regular punters. etc.

 

But my point is that finance has become a way of suckering people into 'buying' expensive new cars every 2-3 years by hiding the costs behind what seems an affordable monthly price with little needed up front.  "You mean I can have a new Beemer 3-series for only £350 per month - bargain!".  Of course, with nearly all of these deals you never actually own the car and instead go on to a new deal every 2-3 years continually paying for the stellar depreciation that new cars attract.

 

But hey, you're always driving a new car!  ... As long as you can continue getting cheap finance deals, this is.  When there's no deal to be had, you either have no car or have to pony up ~50% of the original purchase price in one go.  Once interest rates start to rise to sane levels, it'll absolutely torpedo the whole game as the cost of raising the finance really ups the monthly payments to the point where people stop seeing them as a bargain way of getting a new motor ...

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These are basically the motoring equivalent of an interest only loan. But with depreciation.

The problem is that after three years, you still owe approx 50% of the new value - so in theory you can refinance and therefore you have paid for the car in six years. When in the states I saw some 6 year car finance deals and thought they were mad. Our deals make them seem less so. 

The problem is that if they were repayment loans, that New Beemer would now be £700, not £350 pcm and that kind of ongoing commitment would frighten the horses.

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16 minutes ago, Sour Mash said:

But my point is that finance has become a way of suckering people into 'buying' expensive new cars every 2-3 years by hiding the costs behind what seems an affordable monthly price with little needed up front.  "You mean I can have a new Beemer 3-series for only £350 per month - bargain!".  Of course, with nearly all of these deals you never actually own the car and instead go on to a new deal every 2-3 years continually paying for the stellar depreciation that new cars attract.

But hey, you're always driving a new car!  ... As long as you can continue getting cheap finance deals, this is.  When there's no deal to be had, you either have no car or have to pony up ~50% of the original purchase price in one go.  Once interest rates start to rise to sane levels, it'll absolutely torpedo the whole game as the cost of raising the finance really ups the monthly payments to the point where people stop seeing them as a bargain way of getting a new motor ...

So what is the solution?

A control group of Kia owning Top-5%ers (yeah sure!) superior HPCers, telling all people what they can and can't do?  

Individuals requiring authorisation from the HPC superiors for every car/house decision in their lives?

Guardians of society?  :lol:

In the top 5%ers all a too much in love with their own selves and their own world-views as being correct, and everyone else a lessor and a victim.

The 5%ers can mug off with their narrow minded ego views imo.

If people chose to buy via finance it's their own simple choice.

Other people's life purchases don't need validation of the 'financial sense' police.  Some big egos need popping.  It's not the Midas Plague where people forced/know no better than to buy new Audis on finance.   It's an easy choice between public transport, older car, new car, and it's up to the adult individuals, not the HPC control squad EGO police.   You're all looking for victims where none exist, apart from Kia driving 'Merc superiors' who are victims of their own huge egos.

On 4/19/2017 at 2:26 PM, Venger said:

:lol:

How do you know you?   That's casting 100,000s of adults with PCP deals as lessor than you, or stupid, and hints at them being victims of finance companies.

I suggest many of them could be far smarter than you are, and perhaps with higher disposable incomes.

All cars are expensive to run.   Fuel and insurance.  

Everyone can weigh up a monthly lump of £120-£300+ PCP/lease payment against their incomes before they proceed to sign for a nice modern car.  

They can weigh up possible cost-saving advantages of saving for a few months and buying an older car.  

It's pretty simple.

Doesn't need those who believe themselves to be ultra-superior and in the top 5% of thinkers to cast everyone else as so stupid incapable of making basic informed decisions.   Or sneery people who believe their older South Korean marque is car so much better than those buying new Mercs not getting same value for money.

Choice.  I defend it.   

On this thread we have people asking what happens if individuals if they are in a change of circumstances, and finance company not being able to recover debts against them because the person now doesn't have the flash new motor to get to work.  :rolleyes:

 

On 4/19/2017 at 3:10 PM, WinstonSmith said:

Interesting that you (predictably) responded, you are after all the chief exponent of the straw man on here.

My iq places me in the top five percent so no need for you to suggest anything. What about yours?

Whether their income is higher or lower than mine is irrelevant when addressing if long term car rental makes sense financially.

All cars are expensive to run? Not really, it's relative.

Everyone CAN do lots of things. But most don't. That's why they're stupid. Pretty simple really.

Damn you're taking it to heart about the Merc, you must have one. Nothing wrong with badge snobbery, we are all free to choose as you say. The fact remains that the gap between "luxury" marques and the rest has narrowed to nothing. Sadly the prices have not. I'm sorry that this distresses you.

 

On 4/19/2017 at 3:48 PM, Bear Hug said:

Let's just ignore the IQ nonsense - I hope you didn't come to that conclusion by finding an egg in "fiendishly tricky" Daily Mail puzzle...

Advantage of hiring cars is that cost is mostly known in advance, compared to unknown maintenance cost of owning a used car or rapid depreciation of a new one.

I know exactly how much my PCH cost me over the next 2 years and; fear not, I have done the numbers!  

Yes, I could live without that cost. Even better, I live close to work and I don't need a car at all!  However, I am quite frugal elsewhere, so why can't I have a damn car?!

If we extrapolate your anti-car finance argument, we could argue that we should all just live with bare necessities - wrap up in old blanket and live in some tent eating root vegetables and roadkill.

But people don't: they choose to buy new clothes, eat out, travel, buy cars, buy (bigger than necessary) accommodation.

Is everyone who isn't wrapped up in old blanket, living in a tent while eating root vegetables and roadkill stupid?!

 

13 hours ago, disenfranchised said:

My IQ is top 0.5%. This means I am better than 99.5% of people at IQ tests, it doesn't mean I have an ounce of common sense.

I currently have 5 roadworthy vehicles taxed and insured. I drive a large 3.5 litre Lexus most days, which I am generally alone or with +1 passenger.

This makes no logical economic sense at all. Not one iota. I freely admit this

The point where I disagree with proponents of unlimited free choice is that, whilst I don't mind consumers being stupid, banks have proven to be so monumentally greedy and stupid that they cannot be permitted to set their own lending criteria lest they bankrupt the country.

 

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4 hours ago, Andy T said:

 

The days of buying and running a older car cheaply and learning to do basic repairs like brake discs and servicing yourself could be (or maybe already is) a thing of the past, which is a waste because cars are generally so reliable now, especially German cars if you pick something with a straightforward petrol engine. 

 

 

The reliability of German cars is a myth they still profit from without having to produce the goods. None of the reliability surveys have German manufacturers at the top. 

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news/91220/the-most-and-least-reliable-car-manufacturers-2016

http://www.whatcar.com/news/skoda-tops-new-uk-vehicle-dependability-survey/

 

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On 4/15/2017 at 7:57 AM, Ah-so said:

I can't face those huge repair bills either, so I buy Toyotas. But if I wanted a French or German car, I would definitely want a warranty. 

Yep agree Ive got a 2001 Yaris,had it 3 years paid £1200 for it,never costs more than £150.00 to get it MOT'ed inc the price of the ticket,if you want to buy a cheap and cheerful and be cheerful!! buy Toyota,seen some yaris;s with 180k on the clock mine has 70K so should last me.

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Oh and dont forget when you hand the PCP back a man comes out with a clipboard and writes down all the little scuffs and dings on it,you then get whacked with repairing those,had a mate with a PCP car,it was cheaper for him to take it to a cash paint sprayer and hand the car back in than pay for a main dealer VAT job!

If I saw someone in a 20-30k car 20 years ago Id think,hes doing well,fast forward to now I think "you dont own that, you lease it" hate smug muppets driving cars they dont own

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7 hours ago, Venger said:

Each to their own.

Seems to me there are many real sneery tw@ts sat in judgment of people who have chosen to buy (or just have access to) nice new modern cars.

They are the people with the problem.

There are far more sneery twats with financed new cars looking down their noses at those without one you know.

I am a petrolhead. A total geek. But in a rather James May sort of way. I love poverty spec motorcycles, Eastern bloc cars, Renault 4 vans and things like that just as much as Triumphs and Jaguars and Porsches.

18 months ago I was driving around in an 18 year old £450 Citroen. It had hydraulic suspension, which I find fascinating, it had huge squishy armchairs for front seats, a cavernous boot and a relentlessly reliable pre-electronics everywhere diesel engine. It was an automatic, and the colour of a Hunter Wellington boot. It was the most relentlessly uncool car I ever bought, and it was marvellous.

The looks of utter contempt I received whilst driving it were truly wonderful. I lapped them up. I savoured every single one... Because they gave me an immense feeling of smugness and a great deal of satisfaction that I am not one of those people. The absolute highlight was depositing it in the valet parking at Heathrow with a load of 'those people' glaring as if it may polute their Range Rover with its mere proximity!

It doesn't matter if you drive a flash car or an old one.

It does matter if you look down on people because of what you think you can tell about them by the brand of car they are driving.

Having also owned some flash cars, I can assure you that most of the people who do that drive flashy cars and the statistics show most flashy cars are financed. 

I'd always assumed people who drove REALLY flashy cars were genuinely rich - until a friend of mine got a job as a bailiff reposessing them. Aston Martins, Porsche 911s, TVRs - all sorts of high end exotics used to pass through his hands. So much perceived wealth in this country is illusionary, and so much real wealth is discrete. I have known a few people with owned property and over a million in non-property assets... one drives a bashed up 8 year old Renault, another got a new mid range VW Golf every 6 years or so, the other just changed his 8 year old Volvo for an 18 month old Volvo

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3 hours ago, Venger said:

So what is the solution?

A control group of Kia owning Top-5%ers (yeah sure!) superior HPCers, telling all people what they can and can't do?  

Individuals requiring authorisation from the HPC superiors for every car/house decision in their lives?

Guardians of society?  :lol:

In the top 5%ers all a too much in love with their own selves and their own world-views as being correct, and everyone else a lessor and a victim.

The 5%ers can mug off with their narrow minded ego views imo.

If people chose to buy via finance it's their own simple choice.

Other people's life purchases don't need validation of the 'financial sense' police.  Some big egos need popping.  It's not the Midas Plague where people forced/know no better than to buy new Audis on finance.   It's an easy choice between public transport, older car, new car, and it's up to the adult individuals, not the HPC control squad EGO police.   You're all looking for victims where none exist, apart from Kia driving 'Merc superiors' who are victims of their own huge egos.

 

 

 

 

OK, since you seem to have a Merc on a finance deal it seems that a nerve has been touched. :lol:

Presumably in the same spirit of not commenting on finance deals on cars and their suitability for the general public you won't be decrying people for borrowing loadsamoney on various dodgy mortgage products to bid houses up to silly levels in the future ?

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29 minutes ago, disenfranchised said:

I'd always assumed people who drove REALLY flashy cars were genuinely rich - until a friend of mine got a job as a bailiff reposessing them. Aston Martins, Porsche 911s, TVRs - all sorts of high end exotics used to pass through his hands. So much perceived wealth in this country is illusionary, and so much real wealth is discrete. I have known a few people with owned property and over a million in non-property assets... one drives a bashed up 8 year old Renault, another got a new mid range VW Golf every 6 years or so, the other just changed his 8 year old Volvo for an 18 month old Volvo

I had an interesting conversation with the cashier at a shell petrol station in a rather nice area, I asked him about how many people came in and put exactly £10 in their cars as I had seen quite a few over the years with nice German and other prestige motors doing it. His answer was you wouldn't believe it, someting like nearly 40 percent put £10 or £20 in their motors, some customers do it every day.

He then added that, you really know someone hasn't got any money when they just put £5 in and they are not driving leased tin.

6 minutes ago, Sour Mash said:

OK, since you seem to have a Merc on a finance deal it seems that a nerve has been touched. :lol:

Yep, you must have hit the nail on the head there, Merc leases are terrible, as most folks find out when they try to get out of one early or hand the car back and then don't want another.

Vast swathes of the European motor industry (especially the German one) are solely propped up by cheap finance, makes you wonder where all that cash is actually coming from and who is backing the loans up.

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1 hour ago, disenfranchised said:

There are far more sneery twats with financed new cars looking down their noses at those without one you know.

I am a petrolhead. A total geek. But in a rather James May sort of way. I love poverty spec motorcycles, Eastern bloc cars, Renault 4 vans and things like that just as much as Triumphs and Jaguars and Porsches.

18 months ago I was driving around in an 18 year old £450 Citroen. It had hydraulic suspension, which I find fascinating, it had huge squishy armchairs for front seats, a cavernous boot and a relentlessly reliable pre-electronics everywhere diesel engine. It was an automatic, and the colour of a Hunter Wellington boot. It was the most relentlessly uncool car I ever bought, and it was marvellous.

The looks of utter contempt I received whilst driving it were truly wonderful. I lapped them up. I savoured every single one... Because they gave me an immense feeling of smugness and a great deal of satisfaction that I am not one of those people. The absolute highlight was depositing it in the valet parking at Heathrow with a load of 'those people' glaring as if it may polute their Range Rover with its mere proximity!

It doesn't matter if you drive a flash car or an old one.

It does matter if you look down on people because of what you think you can tell about them by the brand of car they are driving.

Having also owned some flash cars, I can assure you that most of the people who do that drive flashy cars and the statistics show most flashy cars are financed. 

I'd always assumed people who drove REALLY flashy cars were genuinely rich - until a friend of mine got a job as a bailiff reposessing them. Aston Martins, Porsche 911s, TVRs - all sorts of high end exotics used to pass through his hands. So much perceived wealth in this country is illusionary, and so much real wealth is discrete. I have known a few people with owned property and over a million in non-property assets... one drives a bashed up 8 year old Renault, another got a new mid range VW Golf every 6 years or so, the other just changed his 8 year old Volvo for an 18 month old Volvo

I do not know.  Seems like an assumption to me.  Don't have the data.   I treat people as individuals.   

Comfortable soft grey velvety seats and big centre arm-rest?  Maybe a black cover to go over radio, or the radio hidden away slightly, between the seats?  I'm having a wobble for his username on HPC, and maybe he would prefer me not to say it anyway, but I've talked old Citroen with Trader Paul on a couple of occasions on Twitter and have often favourited his classic Citroen pic posts.  He may remember me showing him pics of 3 old Citroen posters I had in my possession.  If he's reading this maybe he could step in and back me up.  There are many classic Citroen cars.

 https://twitter.com/search?l=&q=citroen from%3ATraderPaulFX&src=typd&lang=en

I am pleased you enjoy a full range of cars and have James May style enthusiasm.  (I'm no car fan at all tbh, but I like seeing others passionate about such things).

How do you know they were sneering?  Maybe they were admiring?  How can you be so certain by just a passing look?  

There are individuals of all type.  There are rich people with expensive cars.  There are people who want to project riches with expensive cars on finance.  There are rich people driving old cars.  There are rich people who have old runabout car.   There are normal people with all sorts of cars from financed £25K+ cars, to lower end models.  There are people who run older cars.   There are many individuals who finance Aston Martins etc, who meet the repayments and don't have them repossessed.  Although it absolutely should be the case that action is taken against those who don't meet their contractual agreements.   However they are all individuals.  

1 hour ago, Sour Mash said:

OK, since you seem to have a Merc on a finance deal it seems that a nerve has been touched. :lol:

Presumably in the same spirit of not commenting on finance deals on cars and their suitability for the general public you won't be decrying people for borrowing loadsamoney on various dodgy mortgage products to bid houses up to silly levels in the future ?

No finance.  There was a personal loan on the Merc but it is all paid off, and it doesn't belong to me but I have a lot of access to it and contributed to the purchase of it.  Don't pay any of the running costs other than fuel.

Anyway another assumption.   

It's the dunderheaded insistence of classing other people as 'not knowing what they are doing' that gets my goat.  

Quote

It's nothing to do with self-righteousness, it's merely the observation that people are paying through the nose for long term car hire. Most of them won't even have carried out a cost//benefit analysis.    

Along with projecting that car finance is the 'preying' on victims who 'see no other option' for acquiring a car!

Freewill for people to pay whatever they want to pay/qualify for mortgage of, provided they are on the hook for their own decisions.  I'm positioned against future HPI+ in the future, and hope for HPC, in a market that has until recently, been saturated by BTLers and unregulated lending.  Maybe they will have to sell one of the houses they've laid claim to when market turns.

Been on HPC a long time, including all the many years rates have been floored + £QE Galore for those who overborrowed 2003-2007 and where other HPCers came out calling 'victims of media/ didn't know what they were doing' from 2008 onwards.  Now banks are better capitalised....

 

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25 minutes ago, Venger said:

How do you know they were sneering?  Maybe they were admiring?  How can you be so certain by just a passing look? 

I've driven quite a wide range of cars over the years. When you routinely go to the same places in totally different cars you can tell the difference.

If I'm driving something a bit left field like my old late 50s saloon car, I'll get a lot of confused looks and quite a few people who clearly love it and break into a smile. 

If you really want to feel the hate, try driving a fairly naff convertible in sunglasses!

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5 hours ago, disenfranchised said:

 

18 months ago I was driving around in an 18 year old £450 Citroen. It had hydraulic suspension, which I find fascinating, it had huge squishy armchairs for front seats, a cavernous boot and a relentlessly reliable pre-electronics everywhere diesel engine. It was an automatic, and the colour of a Hunter Wellington boot. It was the most relentlessly uncool car I ever bought, and it was marvellous.

 

was it a xantia?

i had one and it was great, floated over speed bumps

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7 hours ago, Venger said:

 

I do not know.  Seems like an assumption to me.  Don't have the data.   I treat people as individuals.   

Comfortable soft grey velvety seats and big centre arm-rest?  Maybe a black cover to go over radio, or the radio hidden away slightly, between the seats?  I'm having a wobble for his username on HPC, and maybe he would prefer me not to say it anyway, but I've talked old Citroen with Trader Paul on a couple of occasions on Twitter and have often favourited his classic Citroen pic posts.  He may remember me showing him pics of 3 old Citroen posters I had in my possession.  If he's reading this maybe he could step in and back me up.  There are many classic Citroen cars.

 https://twitter.com/search?l=&q=citroen from%3ATraderPaulFX&src=typd&lang=en

I am pleased you enjoy a full range of cars and have James May style enthusiasm.  (I'm no car fan at all tbh, but I like seeing others passionate about such things).

How do you know they were sneering?  Maybe they were admiring?  How can you be so certain by just a passing look?  

There are individuals of all type.  There are rich people with expensive cars.  There are people who want to project riches with expensive cars on finance.  There are rich people driving old cars.  There are rich people who have old runabout car.   There are normal people with all sorts of cars from financed £25K+ cars, to lower end models.  There are people who run older cars.   There are many individuals who finance Aston Martins etc, who meet the repayments and don't have them repossessed.  Although it absolutely should be the case that action is taken against those who don't meet their contractual agreements.   However they are all individuals.  

No finance.  There was a personal loan on the Merc but it is all paid off, and it doesn't belong to me but I have a lot of access to it and contributed to the purchase of it.  Don't pay any of the running costs other than fuel.

Anyway another assumption.   

It's the dunderheaded insistence of classing other people as 'not knowing what they are doing' that gets my goat.  

Along with projecting that car finance is the 'preying' on victims who 'see no other option' for acquiring a car!

Freewill for people to pay whatever they want to pay/qualify for mortgage of, provided they are on the hook for their own decisions.  I'm positioned against future HPI+ in the future, and hope for HPC, in a market that has until recently, been saturated by BTLers and unregulated lending.  Maybe they will have to sell one of the houses they've laid claim to when market turns.

Been on HPC a long time, including all the many years rates have been floored + £QE Galore for those who overborrowed 2003-2007 and where other HPCers came out calling 'victims of media/ didn't know what they were doing' from 2008 onwards.  Now banks are better capitalised....

 

Indeed! Love my old Citroens and Rovers. Currently looking for a Rover 75

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10 hours ago, ChewingGrass said:

I had an interesting conversation with the cashier at a shell petrol station in a rather nice area, I asked him about how many people came in and put exactly £10 in their cars as I had seen quite a few over the years with nice German and other prestige motors doing it. His answer was you wouldn't believe it, someting like nearly 40 percent put £10 or £20 in their motors, some customers do it every day.

He then added that, you really know someone hasn't got any money when they just put £5 in and they are not driving leased tin.

 

To be honest, our local shell is 15p a litre more than the station near work. So, if I've actually run out, I'll put in £5 to get me the 50 miles to work, then fill up with 60 litres.

Saves me £9 every 3 (commuting) days. Over a year around a grand. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, lid said:

was it a xantia?

i had one and it was great, floated over speed bumps

Sounds like an old 1.3 gsa I used to have. Lovely, distinctive sounding  boxer engine. Great adjustable ride. 

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3 minutes ago, contradevian said:

Indeed! Love my old Citroens and Rovers. Currently looking for a Rover 75

8 hours ago, Venger said:

 I'm having a wobble for his username on HPC, and maybe he would prefer me not to say it anyway, but I've talked old Citroen with Trader Paul on a couple of occasions on Twitter and have often favourited his classic Citroen pic posts.  He may remember me showing him pics of 3 old Citroen posters I had in my possession.  If he's reading this maybe he could step in and back me up.  There are many classic Citroen cars.

 

Many thanks for backing me up on the Citroen points @contradevian and good luck finding your next Rover 75 for happy future motoring. :)   

You're a top guy for coming in on my reach out, to back me up on that point. :)

And you know your classic cars and what makes you happy.  :)

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11 hours ago, disenfranchised said:

There are far more sneery twats with financed new cars looking down their noses at those without one you know.

[.....]18 months ago I was driving around in an 18 year old £450 Citroen. It had hydraulic suspension, which I find fascinating, it had huge squishy armchairs for front seats, a cavernous boot and a relentlessly reliable pre-electronics everywhere diesel engine. It was an automatic, and the colour of a Hunter Wellington boot. It was the most relentlessly uncool car I ever bought, and it was marvellous.

The looks of utter contempt I received whilst driving it were truly wonderful. I lapped them up.

 

7 hours ago, disenfranchised said:

I've driven quite a wide range of cars over the years. When you routinely go to the same places in totally different cars you can tell the difference.

If I'm driving something a bit left field like my old late 50s saloon car, I'll get a lot of confused looks and quite a few people who clearly love it and break into a smile. 

If you really want to feel the hate, try driving a fairly naff convertible in sunglasses!

 

What's to sneer at about a Xantia?  (If it is that model of Citroen).  Or any older Citroen....?   Perhaps with the exception of that 80s-90s nearly full fibre-glass small hatchback model I wouldn't really risk driving around in, for safety reasons (awful ratings on safety but good on fuel economy). 

All this backs up my view of allowing people to keep their misconceptions, and if they want to get deep into new car finance to show their status, or simply because they choose a modern safe car for their families/babies, just allow them to get on with it!   They don't need victim protecting.  It's all their own choice.  If it's a costly 'non financial sense' decision for them, it's their own income and position to work out.   They had the gainz of a nice new car for some time, and can readjust in the future.

I think I now get some of what 8-year meant about self-validating.   We have to be careful of not multiplying our own faults by making assumptions about other people, including as casting people as incapable of making their own choices, and casting ourselves as superior to other people, simply because we choose to make different decisions that we believe are more informed.   It's a multi-layered colourful life out there, and people are free to choose.

12 hours ago, Le Grande Fromage said:

Oh and dont forget when you hand the PCP back a man comes out with a clipboard and writes down all the little scuffs and dings on it,you then get whacked with repairing those,had a mate with a PCP car,it was cheaper for him to take it to a cash paint sprayer and hand the car back in than pay for a main dealer VAT job!

If I saw someone in a 20-30k car 20 years ago Id think,hes doing well,fast forward to now I think "you dont own that, you lease it" hate smug muppets driving cars they dont own

Why hate?  It's a valid choice of motoring.  The German car I have access to was bought mostly for safety reasons and transporting young children around in.  

12 hours ago, Le Grande Fromage said:

Yep agree Ive got a 2001 Yaris,had it 3 years paid £1200 for it,never costs more than £150.00 to get it MOT'ed inc the price of the ticket,if you want to buy a cheap and cheerful and be cheerful!! buy Toyota,seen some yaris;s with 180k on the clock mine has 70K so should last me.

Good for you. :)  However choice for all others.

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Hi I've been reading HPC with interest, just a quick question. As I understand it, when someone takes out a PCP agreement the garage sets a future minimum guarantee value, from which you can walk away etc etc. They know the current price of 2, 3 and 4 year old cars and can make a good estimate of what that might be.

But have they considered a large downwards price shift? With the government now seeming to increase the  tax on diesel cars, they are predicted to fall in value. Surely they could not see this fall coming and if loads of people walk away, the garages will be left with loads of cars that could be several thousands of pounds less than their original sums. 

As I also understand it there has been a huge increase in diesel cars bought in the last few years. When enough people turn away from Diesel fuel, will this be the biggest problem for PCP. The finance company's would be left with a huge stock that is now under valuation. Thanks 

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31 minutes ago, Kipperwood said:

Hi I've been reading HPC with interest, just a quick question. As I understand it, when someone takes out a PCP agreement the garage sets a future minimum guarantee value, from which you can walk away etc etc. They know the current price of 2, 3 and 4 year old cars and can make a good estimate of what that might be.

But have they considered a large downwards price shift? With the government now seeming to increase the  tax on diesel cars, they are predicted to fall in value. Surely they could not see this fall coming and if loads of people walk away, the garages will be left with loads of cars that could be several thousands of pounds less than their original sums. 

As I also understand it there has been a huge increase in diesel cars bought in the last few years. When enough people turn away from Diesel fuel, will this be the biggest problem for PCP. The finance company's would be left with a huge stock that is now under valuation. Thanks 

Diesels took a big hit, falling by 9.2 per cent compared on this time last year -  

Slow month of February as buyers shun diesel models ahead of 17-plate registrations and tax changes  

 

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news/94714/new-car-sales-down-in-february-2017

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17 minutes ago, buckers said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but government (so far) has decided to raise taxes & VED on new cars only? Our family fleet includes two cars that have £0 and £30 VED and they were the same last time I bought them (the £0 was last month).

My 30 year old motorbike was £85 :(

 

yes, but there is £10 daily charge for pre 2006 diesels coming into force in Oct 2017 for london congestion charge 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/17/drivers-older-diesel-cars-charged-extra-10-enter-london/ 

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I don't suppose there is nothing to stop them from putting up car tax on existing diesel cars, in time, if they thought they could.

But it is the indirect taxes like the above mentioned congestion charge and even parking charges in certain areas. Once one council is taking more revenue that way, they will roll out the same policy's to a wider area.

I drive a 4 year old VW transporter van that is diesel, like most vans out there. It is almost unheard of to have a petrol engined van but my first transit van was indeed a petrol engine, back in the early 90's. Ex BT fleet that was still yellow in colour. 

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  • 429 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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