Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Sledgehead

Psychologists: can you name the phenomenon by which I almost got "religion"

Recommended Posts

Watched "Prometheus" for the first time last night (yeah, 5 years old, I know).

I observed in myself a reasonably strong desire to explore how the plot related to its older and more famous stablemate "Alien".

It is of course a prequel.

Okay. So what. Well, I felt as if I wanted to understand exactly what was going on in Ridley Scott's mind. I felt a need to read articles on what he meant by xyz in the film. And yes, strangely, I found myself feeling it was all worth knowing. As if it was not fiction at all. Maybe not even just a theory. Maybe I was actually thinking Scott had an "insight".

But why? He's a film director. He's not a abiogenesis expert or any other kind of genetic or evolution expert. He's a story teller. And Alien was probably a better film than Prometheus. So why did I want to know more now than when I watched Alien, which, at the time, seemed like nothing more than a great sci-fi romp.

It occurred to me that there was something special about the prequel nature of this story. Something in my mind was giving artificial credence to the work of fiction "Prometheus", simply because I'd already seen the work of fiction "Alien".

And then I recalled how prophets often validate their claims by reference to prophecy that has already apparently come true. Was it this occurrence - a validated prophecy - ie my prior viewing of the sequel, "Aliens" - that was in some odd way suggesting to me that Prometheus was more than just a work of fiction? If so, what would that be called?

Anybody else experienced this sort of thing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I think a lot of people are probably experiencing the same thing - how come such a big movie was such a let down. However - as time goes on the director/writer's theories are more relevant. The same could be said of Star Trek V The Final Frontier - it was rubbish, but the story seems more relevant today. An extremist renegade terrorist vulcan radicalises everyone he meets, including the Star Trek crew. The ship is taken to meet "his God" - and he finds out that it was all a lie. The "God" says this image you create of me, is of your construct. The God demands to take their ship, and Kirk quips "What does God need of a Starship?!" Which of course blows the fanatics illusion of his god - even the most radical true believer finds that hard to swallow.

There is an excellent modern review of this film that breaks this down which I have finally found, and I urge all sci-fi fans to read http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/star-trek-v-the-final-frontier/39385/examining-the-brilliant-political-allegory-of-star-trek-v

----

Bah! Sargon of Akkad did a an excellent review on Prometheus but it was taken down. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UykrRMIXjI8&feature=youtu.be&a

I too was a late watcher of Prometheus, and actually forgot it was the prequel to Aliens. I only clicked when they mentioned Weyland Corp, and the Android was probably going to be the "baddie".

There is some analysis of the film on Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/LV426/comments/5rbmb1/this_guy_hates_prometheus/

The Engineers are, in Scott's mind, angels. We see the Light Engineers create life on Earth at the start of the film. The Engineer in the scene with David and the others is a fallen angel or Dark Engineer, who are destroyers of life. He has just been asked for extended life, which to him is a blasphemy, hence the sudden and violent response. It probably also sees the creation of false life, David, as blasphemy.

A lot of story tellers use the same themes over and over. JK Rowling - Resurrection to save us. We must travel to a dark inner place to confront evil etc.

 

---

An offshoot, when Aliens was made in UK studios, the director complained that the UK workforce took their tea breaks and weren't willing to work all the hours to get the film done. Ironically this was the best film of the entire series. GO UK!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, 200p said:

 

I think a lot of people are probably experiencing the same thing - how come such a big movie was such a let down. However - as time goes on the director/writer's theories are more relevant. The same could be said of Star Trek V The Final Frontier - it was rubbish, but the story seems more relevant today. An extremist renegade terrorist vulcan radicalises everyone he meets, including the Star Trek crew. The ship is taken to meet "his God" - and he finds out that it was all a lie. The "God" says this image you create of me, is of your construct. The God demands to take their ship, and Kirk quips "What does God need of a Starship?!" Which of course blows the fanatics illusion of his god - even the most radical true believer finds that hard to swallow.

There is an excellent modern review of this film that breaks this down which I have finally found, and I urge all sci-fi fans to read http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/star-trek-v-the-final-frontier/39385/examining-the-brilliant-political-allegory-of-star-trek-v

----

Bah! Sargon of Akkad did a an excellent review on Prometheus but it was taken down. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UykrRMIXjI8&feature=youtu.be&a

I too was a late watcher of Prometheus, and actually forgot it was the prequel to Aliens. I only clicked when they mentioned Weyland Corp, and the Android was probably going to be the "baddie".

There is some analysis of the film on Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/LV426/comments/5rbmb1/this_guy_hates_prometheus/

The Engineers are, in Scott's mind, angels. We see the Light Engineers create life on Earth at the start of the film. The Engineer in the scene with David and the others is a fallen angel or Dark Engineer, who are destroyers of life. He has just been asked for extended life, which to him is a blasphemy, hence the sudden and violent response. It probably also sees the creation of false life, David, as blasphemy.

A lot of story tellers use the same themes over and over. JK Rowling - Resurrection to save us. We must travel to a dark inner place to confront evil etc.

 

---

An offshoot, when Aliens was made in UK studios, the director complained that the UK workforce took their tea breaks and weren't willing to work all the hours to get the film done. Ironically this was the best film of the entire series. GO UK!

All interesting and again I find myself falling into this desire to learn more - but of what!?! A work of fiction!

Perhaps my exposition was rather long. I guess what I was asking was, is there some special power that a prequel has? Even TV writers often begin at the end, perhaps in a nod to some hidden power prequels have. Sure, the most dramatic parts of a story are often at the end, so they make an instant impact as a starter. But one could also call these sequences "spoilers", and nobody likes those - the clue is in the name!

The fact that Alien spawned Aliens etc tells us that the Engineers never got to do their "worst", so one might think of Prometheus as an irrelevance. But somehow prequels don't conform to the theory that "all's well that ends well". We still want to see them and then they even seem to make sequels more real.

Is it just a case of "back story" or are we somehow fooled into thinking stories are more real (if that's what this need to join the dots amounts to) when they are told in this non-linear fashion?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sledgehead said:

It occurred to me that there was something special about the prequel nature of this story. Something in my mind was giving artificial credence to the work of fiction "Prometheus", simply because I'd already seen the work of fiction "Alien".

Anybody else experienced this sort of thing?

As a kid, "The Omen" had the same effect on me. I suspected later in life that it had something to do with having been force fed chunks of the bible at Sunday school - which I never even believed at the time.

Same sort of effect perhaps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's another literary tool that seems to imbue credence.

It's the one often used in ghost stories.

We start in a normal situation where the appearance of a figure with a warning leads us to alter our path. The warning proves fortuitous in the extreme (saves our life for instance). Then, back to normality, we chat with a local about how we avoided disaster. Then we drop in to the convo with the local "just as well that old xyz character still does abc". That's when the mood turns enigmatic with the local declaring old xyz died years ago in the same accident that would have befallen us should we have proceeded.

At this point the audience gets that "wow that's spooky" look in their eyes.

Now consider if we'd have told the story the other way round. We're told by a local Old xyz died in an accident some years ago. Then we more to the scene of the accident but are warned off proceeding thanks to a character matching Old xyz's appearance. Now all the audience does is raise their eyebrows in a mocking expression of disbelief.

Maybe it's cos the first telling introduces the supernatural only at the end - a kind of Trojan horse approach. Or maybe it's something special about telling a story back to front.

Maybe a lit grad would have a term for these literary devices, if that's what they are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Broken biscuit said:

As a kid, "The Omen" had the same effect on me. I suspected later in life that it had something to do with having been force fed chunks of the bible at Sunday school - which I never even believed at the time.

Same sort of effect perhaps.

you do come across that from time to time.

aleister crowley's parents were apparently plymouth brethren.

 

something to be said for not going too full-on on your kids,because they will rebel,and do a complete 180

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, 200p said:

 

I think a lot of people are probably experiencing the same thing - how come such a big movie was such a let down. However - as time goes on the director/writer's theories are more relevant. The same could be said of Star Trek V The Final Frontier - it was rubbish, but the story seems more relevant today. An extremist renegade terrorist vulcan radicalises everyone he meets, including the Star Trek crew. The ship is taken to meet "his God" - and he finds out that it was all a lie. The "God" says this image you create of me, is of your construct. The God demands to take their ship, and Kirk quips "What does God need of a Starship?!" Which of course blows the fanatics illusion of his god - even the most radical true believer finds that hard to swallow.

There is an excellent modern review of this film that breaks this down which I have finally found, and I urge all sci-fi fans to read http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/star-trek-v-the-final-frontier/39385/examining-the-brilliant-political-allegory-of-star-trek-v

----

Bah! Sargon of Akkad did a an excellent review on Prometheus but it was taken down. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UykrRMIXjI8&feature=youtu.be&a

I too was a late watcher of Prometheus, and actually forgot it was the prequel to Aliens. I only clicked when they mentioned Weyland Corp, and the Android was probably going to be the "baddie".

There is some analysis of the film on Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/LV426/comments/5rbmb1/this_guy_hates_prometheus/

The Engineers are, in Scott's mind, angels. We see the Light Engineers create life on Earth at the start of the film. The Engineer in the scene with David and the others is a fallen angel or Dark Engineer, who are destroyers of life. He has just been asked for extended life, which to him is a blasphemy, hence the sudden and violent response. It probably also sees the creation of false life, David, as blasphemy.

A lot of story tellers use the same themes over and over. JK Rowling - Resurrection to save us. We must travel to a dark inner place to confront evil etc.

 

---

An offshoot, when Aliens was made in UK studios, the director complained that the UK workforce took their tea breaks and weren't willing to work all the hours to get the film done. Ironically this was the best film of the entire series. GO UK!

I believe the name 'Weyland' was derived from the then corporate behemoth [British] Leyland!

Any colour as long as it's brown...

brown5.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Next General Election   90 members have voted

    1. 1. When do you predict the next general election will be held?


      • 2019
      • 2020
      • 2021
      • 2022

    Please sign in or register to vote in this poll. View topic


×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.