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workingpoor

Light aircraft crashes

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5 hours ago, workingpoor said:

Another crash at Shoreham today:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4365560/Two-swim-safety-aircraft-crashes-Kent-beach.html#article-4365560

There does seems to be an building increase in private light aircraft crashes. 

The plane crashed at Widewater in Lancing not Shoreham.

http://www.worthingherald.co.uk/news/plane-crash-dog-walker-tells-of-aftermath-1-7893356

National newspapers getting their facts wrong yet a again !!!

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1 hour ago, stormymonday_2011 said:

The plane crashed at Widewater in Lancing not Shoreham.

http://www.worthingherald.co.uk/news/plane-crash-dog-walker-tells-of-aftermath-1-7893356

National newspapers getting their facts wrong yet a again !!!

Ok what wednesday's eurocopter "Squirrel" crash in the Rinog mountains? 

Owned by a wealthy construction company, on route from Luton to Dublin. 

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 I worked for an airline years ago, and I well remember flight deck crew saying more than once that they'd never fly with anyone who just had a PPL.  Too many such were careless and not over particular about their checks.  

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3 hours ago, 24 year mortgage 8itch said:

Sub text?

 

Anyway if you click on the link, you will see that the original headline said the crash was at shoreham when i posted the OP, the article was later edited at 23:40pm that day to say "near" shoreham. 

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2 hours ago, workingpoor said:

 

Anyway if you click on the link, you will see that the original headline said the crash was at shoreham when i posted the OP, the article was later edited at 23:40pm that day to say "near" shoreham. 

No, your sub text. why?

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22 hours ago, Mrs Bear said:

 I worked for an airline years ago, and I well remember flight deck crew saying more than once that they'd never fly with anyone who just had a PPL.  Too many such were careless and not over particular about their checks.  

Well given that they were once just plain PPLs too, that doesn't reflect very well on them.

I'd much rather fly with an experienced PPL rather than some of the commercial pilots who have forgotten how to actually fly an aircraft and have become far too reliant on automation.

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55 minutes ago, SpewLabour said:

Well given that they were once just plain PPLs too, that doesn't reflect very well on them.

I'd much rather fly with an experienced PPL rather than some of the commercial pilots who have forgotten how to actually fly an aircraft and have become far too reliant on automation.

There's more than a grain of truth in that.

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14 hours ago, SpewLabour said:

Well given that they were once just plain PPLs too, that doesn't reflect very well on them.

I'd much rather fly with an experienced PPL rather than some of the commercial pilots who have forgotten how to actually fly an aircraft and have become far too reliant on automation.

Yes, but they were of that subset of PPL holders who became commecial pilots, so by definition they were the consientious careful motivated ones.

I dont think your second point is very likely true either. If an airline pilot still flies light aircraft, its for the love of flying, and he is very probably a much better pilot than the average PPL. Also little planes dont have automatics, so how can he have forgotten how to fly?

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1 hour ago, Mirror Mirror said:

Yes, but they were of that subset of PPL holders who became commecial pilots, so by definition they were the consientious careful motivated ones.

There is no logical flow in that argument.

I'd suggest it is more likely to be the opposite. 

  • The average commercial pilot comes from a young people who lusted after the llifestyle and money, and just happened to be lucky enough to get funded to take lessons/build hours.  Or possibly because they had loaded parents who knew that they didn't have what it took to make it as a doctor / solicitor / business-leader, but that glorified bus driver pilot was a respectable job.
  • The average ppl is a normal people who has been somewhat successful in life already but has scraped enough money together to get a ppl because they love flying.

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When i do my Helicopter PPL, i'am going to work on instrument only flying first until i have it down pat, maybe use a simulator to start with. 

I could only be confident up there if i knew i could cope with any changes in weather / visability, 

No point waiting around for a "perfect day" that sounds pants.

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2 hours ago, workingpoor said:

When i do my Helicopter PPL, i'am going to work on instrument only flying first until i have it down pat, maybe use a simulator to start with. 

I could only be confident up there if i knew i could cope with any changes in weather / visability, 

No point waiting around for a "perfect day" that sounds pants.

Eh? 

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2 hours ago, workingpoor said:

When i do my Helicopter PPL, i'am going to work on instrument only flying first until i have it down pat, maybe use a simulator to start with. 

I could only be confident up there if i knew i could cope with any changes in weather / visability, 

No point waiting around for a "perfect day" that sounds pants.

You'll find that route would be considerably more expensive. 

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On 2 April 2017 at 9:22 PM, SpewLabour said:

Quite frankly I'm amazed at what he's written!

I thought my approach was pretty good planning, lots of people getting caught out inadvertently forced to go IMC without having practiced it. 

Only going up on days with "perfect conditions" sounds like chancing it to me.

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11 minutes ago, workingpoor said:

I thought my approach was pretty good planning, lots of people getting caught out inadvertently forced to go IMC without having practiced it. 

Only going up on days with "perfect conditions" sounds like chancing it to me.

Well, what you're saying kind of doesn't make sense.

The normal route is to get visual only first.  This costs enough -- maybe £10k* (you can do it cheaper, but many don't).  After that expense many amateur pilots like to fly around for a bit, happy to wait for good weather (as that is the most fun weather for flying).

[Oh, and if you're not up for the £10k, many pilots restrict themselves to the LAPL, which can be done for under £5k -- but you can't do instruments on LAPL.  So a self-selected exclusion for many amateur pilots.]

At that point you have to build up the hours -- at least flying 25 hours in-command after PPL.  This costs a fair whack.  Note you can't just go straight into IMC training.

Then you've got to do the IMC training.  That'll cost something like £3k.

Now, IMC isn't that great a rating -- it is designed as a 'get you out of trouble', rather than a 'off you go then' type of thing.  If you actually want to be able to survive flying on instruments (maybe you'd need to land on instruments, you never know!) then you'd need an instrument rating, which would cost considerably more again.

So while a reasonable number of amateur pilots do go on to IMC, many just enjoy the sunny weather flying and are happy with the experience (and lower expenditure).

Interestingly, what the CAA really don't like is people getting PPL and then flying ('secretly') in simulators under instruments to try to get experience at that sort of thing.  These people then seem to fly a little more riskily, taking off where others wouldn't because they're not scared by the potential for that front that's currently miles away closing in suddenly -- because they've trained to get themselves out of trouble.  Those type of pilots tend to be the ones that 'inadvertently' enter IMC and crash.  Thus, for the CAA, VFR only pilots that stray into IMC are a dangerous bunch that should be controlled -- you'd probably get away with it if you came up with a reasonable excuse, but you'd get slapped if they thought you'd not taken the restrictions to your license seriously.

[* all costs for fixed-wing.  Rotary would cost more.]

 

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31 minutes ago, dgul said:

Well, what you're saying kind of doesn't make sense.

The normal route is to get visual only first.  This costs enough -- maybe £10k* (you can do it cheaper, but many don't).  After that expense many amateur pilots like to fly around for a bit, happy to wait for good weather (as that is the most fun weather for flying).

[Oh, and if you're not up for the £10k, many pilots restrict themselves to the LAPL, which can be done for under £5k -- but you can't do instruments on LAPL.  So a self-selected exclusion for many amateur pilots.]

At that point you have to build up the hours -- at least flying 25 hours in-command after PPL.  This costs a fair whack.  Note you can't just go straight into IMC training.

Then you've got to do the IMC training.  That'll cost something like £3k.

Now, IMC isn't that great a rating -- it is designed as a 'get you out of trouble', rather than a 'off you go then' type of thing.  If you actually want to be able to survive flying on instruments (maybe you'd need to land on instruments, you never know!) then you'd need an instrument rating, which would cost considerably more again.

So while a reasonable number of amateur pilots do go on to IMC, many just enjoy the sunny weather flying and are happy with the experience (and lower expenditure).

Interestingly, what the CAA really don't like is people getting PPL and then flying ('secretly') in simulators under instruments to try to get experience at that sort of thing.  These people then seem to fly a little more riskily, taking off where others wouldn't because they're not scared by the potential for that front that's currently miles away closing in suddenly -- because they've trained to get themselves out of trouble.  Those type of pilots tend to be the ones that 'inadvertently' enter IMC and crash.  Thus, for the CAA, VFR only pilots that stray into IMC are a dangerous bunch that should be controlled -- you'd probably get away with it if you came up with a reasonable excuse, but you'd get slapped if they thought you'd not taken the restrictions to your license seriously.

[* all costs for fixed-wing.  Rotary would cost more.]

 

He's planning on getting a PPL(H). He'll need a full IR for instrument flying - costing alot more than 3k . There is no IMC rating for helicopters.

I'm just amazed at his attitude. On one hand he slates pilots for not following regulations and being dangerous, and on the other doesn't seem to fully understand the regulations around flying and what training is involved. If he's actually planning to go flying in poor weather with no formal training, then there will be an AAIB report with his name on it sooner rather than later. And if he does find a school to agree to teach him the way he's planning, he'll end up with no licence and no money left.

 

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1 hour ago, dgul said:

Interestingly, what the CAA really don't like is people getting PPL and then flying ('secretly') in simulators under instruments to try to get experience at that sort of thing.  These people then seem to fly a little more riskily, taking off where others wouldn't because they're not scared by the potential for that front 

 

Ah righty'o, thanks. 

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On 02/04/2017 at 6:35 PM, workingpoor said:

When i do my Helicopter PPL, i'am going to work on instrument only flying first until i have it down pat, maybe use a simulator to start with. 

I could only be confident up there if i knew i could cope with any changes in weather / visability, 

No point waiting around for a "perfect day" that sounds pants.

Instrument flying is easy.

Instrument navigation...quite a bit harder. specially in a cloud where its a bit bumpy, to say the least.

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1 hour ago, Bloo Loo said:

Instrument flying is easy.

Instrument navigation...quite a bit harder. specially in a cloud where its a bit bumpy, to say the least.

Hmm.  Perhaps a bit like riding a bike -- easy when you can do it, but hard to learn by trial-and-error without the risk of crashing a few times.

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