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Mikhail Liebenstein

BreEntry - what would be the best way to rejoin the EU

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Ok, so I am going to assume Theresa May triggers article 50, so I wanted to start a discussion about the best way to rejoin the EU. As I can see it, the options could be:

1) Cancel the Article 50 notification- the EU would accept this.

2) Come back in with article 49, this would entail the Euro.

3) London, Home Counties, Scotland etc split away leaving the pro-Brexit parts on their ow.

4) Individual membership extended to U.K. citizens, effectively forming an elite with hybrid U.K. And EU residence rights.

Personally I'd favour having a more free enterprise City State Arrangement for London and the South, that way we could cut lose the less affluent parts of the UK who could then have their own weaker currency to support growth, whilst London would not need to carry such a high tax burden.

Edited by Mikhail Liebenstein

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18 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

Ok, so I am going to assume Theresa May triggers article 50, so I wanted to start a discussion about the best way to rejoin the EU. As I can see it, the options could be:

1) Cancel the Article 50 notification- the EU would accept this.

2) Come back in with article 49, this would entail the Euro.

3) London, Home Counties, Scotland etc split away leaving the pro-Brexit parts to stew and go bust.

4) Individual membership extended to U.K. citizens, effectively forming an elite with hybrid U.K. And EU residence rights.

Personally I'd favour having a more free enterprise City State Arrangement for London and the South, that way we could cut lose the unproductive parts of the UK and reduce the tax burden.

Not that I disagree with you, but after Theresa May triggers article 50, the decision is not anymore in UK's hand. UK will simply kill the Goose That Laid the Golden Eggs.

I think EU will only allow UK to rejoin the union, after UK surrendering all the current advantages and accept Euro.

Edited by rollover

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1 minute ago, rollover said:

Not that I disagree with you, but after Theresa May triggers article 50, the decision is not anymore in UK's hand. UK will simply kill the Goose That Laid the Golden Eggs.

 Well we can cancel the Article 50 notification, that would be the least painful way. 

Article 49 is great, but what we have chucked away already is the right to issue our own currency.

Basically Farage and his crowd have given us the Euro long term. This will happen either as we re-enter, or by default as people start using the Euro/Dollar as people realise Sterling is about as good as the Drachma.

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3 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

 Well we can cancel the Article 50 notification, that would be the least painful way. 

Article 49 is great, but what we have chucked away already is the right to issue our own currency.

Basically Farage and his crowd have given us the Euro long term. This will happen either as we re-enter, or by default as people start using the Euro/Dollar as people realise Sterling is about as good as the Drachma.

If the Exiting process start next week and take two years to accomplish with current government in charge, I cannot see any significant change take effect after the process will be completed.

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12 hours ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

Personally I'd favour having a more free enterprise City State Arrangement for London and the South, that way we could cut lose the less affluent parts of the UK who could then have their own weaker currency to support growth, whilst London would not need to carry such a high tax burden.

 

Maybe we could "do a Singapore" and get the rest of the country to expel us on the grounds that we'd only subvert the  post Brexit golden age that surely awaits.

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, ccc said:

Wow. Delusion is strong in this one :)

If you read that as a serious response your sarcasm filter needs to be adjusted.

 

There's zero chance of London seceding (more's the pity - as it would do very well as an independent city state)

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1 hour ago, EssKay said:

If you read that as a serious response your sarcasm filter needs to be adjusted.

 

There's zero chance of London seceding (more's the pity - as it would do very well as an independent city state)

I was just referring to this thread in general.

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1 hour ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

Nope - there is a sign over the UK, it says "back soon"

Just how exactly do we re enter something that doesn't exist ?

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I'm guessing if the EU moves into some sort of multi tier system, we could potentially move back into a lower tier of integration, meaning we don't have to sign up to many of the rules for the closer nations. I think the EU will probably go in this direction anyway, it has to.

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23 hours ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

Ok, so I am going to assume Theresa May triggers article 50, so I wanted to start a discussion about the best way to rejoin the EU. As I can see it, the options could be:

1) Cancel the Article 50 notification- the EU would accept this.

2) Come back in with article 49, this would entail the Euro.

3) London, Home Counties, Scotland etc split away leaving the pro-Brexit parts on their ow.

4) Individual membership extended to U.K. citizens, effectively forming an elite with hybrid U.K. And EU residence rights.

Personally I'd favour having a more free enterprise City State Arrangement for London and the South, that way we could cut lose the less affluent parts of the UK who could then have their own weaker currency to support growth, whilst London would not need to carry such a high tax burden.

How do you envisage any of this happening? What sort of government would push this through? Would the untermensch vote in sufficient numbers to bring in such a government? I foresee a few problems here.

 

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Only an insane person would want to re-enter a burning building.

Any decision on re-entry would be in 20-30 years in any event. Not before.

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22 hours ago, hotairmail said:

Meanwhile we develop far better lnks with the likes of close countries like USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand PLUS better trade links with Africa to help them trade out of poverty and give the UK cheaper food into the bargain. etc.

This is the Brexit fantasy in one sentence.  The likes of the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand will look at Europe and see that by far their most important relationship should be with the EU, not with a needy and narcissistic UK that still thinks it owns them.

Also, the EU already has asymmetric free trade deals with much of Africa that give them open access to European markets while still allowing them to protect domestic industries from competition.

Edited by thecrashingisles

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Just now, thecrashingisles said:

The likes of the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand 

We should be trading with these countries and working with them on a business only basis. I don't really want a 'relationship' with them - whatever that is supposed to mean.

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1 hour ago, Pieman Pieface said:

I'm guessing if the EU moves into some sort of multi tier system, we could potentially move back into a lower tier of integration, meaning we don't have to sign up to many of the rules for the closer nations. I think the EU will probably go in this direction anyway, it has to.

A reversal of integration is what they EU has needed for years, and whilst it needs to head back in that direction the denial at the top is too strong. If it wasn't we'd never have had Brexit IMO. There's too much denial about the problems with the EU, and confusing an idealised version of it with what we've actually got. That extends to recognising the issues - Leavers often get painted as being against the whole idea, when what we're actually against is the implementation. So the best way to rejoin the EU would be for it to reform into something worth rejoining.

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37 minutes ago, Errol said:

We should be trading with these countries and working with them on a business only basis. I don't really want a 'relationship' with them - whatever that is supposed to mean.

I'd prefer it to some other countries I could name...

There are other things that it's good for nations to work together on as well as trade, large-scale scientific projects is one example.

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Well yes, but you work with them in a business-like manner and with a professional mindset. For instance, Russia, the US and the EU have cooperated on space research and space station matters for ages now.

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1 hour ago, Riedquat said:

A reversal of integration is what they EU has needed for years, and whilst it needs to head back in that direction the denial at the top is too strong. If it wasn't we'd never have had Brexit IMO. There's too much denial about the problems with the EU, and confusing an idealised version of it with what we've actually got. That extends to recognising the issues - Leavers often get painted as being against the whole idea, when what we're actually against is the implementation. So the best way to rejoin the EU would be for it to reform into something worth rejoining.

The EU is going to have to change one way or another, and rather soon. It will either go towards closer integration, basically turning into a federalised country, which would almost certainly never happen because no member state will vote for it (although in some ways it would fix many of its problems)

Or it will go the opposite way, towards less integration and a multi tiered model. I'm pretty certain it will happen. As you say those at the top are delusional as to what the EU has managed to achieve in comparison to its goals. A major reform would hopefully kick out those at the top, bringing in more realistic leaders with similar goals, and less vested interests. At that point they wouldn't be so pig headed to deny Britain a place, as they would need our help to make it work as much as we'd need them.

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59 minutes ago, Errol said:

Well yes, but you work with them in a business-like manner and with a professional mindset. For instance, Russia, the US and the EU have cooperated on space research and space station matters for ages now.

 

At the risk of going off topic, co-operation on the space program has always struck me as a perfect example of how we can work effectively with Russia if there's a willingness to treat them with a bit of respect - rather than the playground demonisation that we seem to prefer to indulge in

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The best outcome for the EU would be for France and Germany to both leave - Frexit and DExit, then the remaining countries could ditch the benefits handout and SJW culture and reform the EU into a simple trading block which is what it should have been in the first place.

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26 minutes ago, EssKay said:

 

At the risk of going off topic, co-operation on the space program has always struck me as a perfect example of how we can work effectively with Russia if there's a willingness to treat them with a bit of respect - rather than the playground demonisation that we seem to prefer to indulge in

That then opens you up to criticism for working with brutal and petty dictators. 

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30 minutes ago, Habeas Domus said:

The best outcome for the EU would be for France and Germany to both leave - Frexit and DExit, then the remaining countries could ditch the benefits handout and SJW culture and reform the EU into a simple trading block which is what it should have been in the first place.

France will be the big one. It hinges on Le Pen, and I'm not sure she has enough support to win.

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On ‎26‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 10:59 AM, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

Personally I'd favour having a more free enterprise City State Arrangement for London and the South, that way we could cut lose the less affluent parts of the UK who could then have their own weaker currency to support growth, whilst London would not need to carry such a high tax burden.

So, like Scotland, we'd start off with no debt?  All government debt would stay with the London sterling zone, and the rest of us would have none.

£1.5 trillion debt shared between 10-12 million population.

 

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