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Tenants - just say no!

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On the BTL scum regrouping thread I often see phrases such as this "If s24 goes through we will be forced to raise our rents by 10%."

The obvious thing wrong with this is "forced".  They will "choose" to put up rents rather than "choose" to absorb the cost or "choose" to sell their property

There's another thing wrong though and that is the missing word "attempt".  They will choose to attempt to raise rents by 10%

They are forgetting of course that the tenants can always say "no".

 

Last year there was an attempt to put up our rent by £50.  My partner asked whether this was coming from the LL or the agent.  The agent said it was based on their analysis of the market.  My partner said no and the rent stayed the same.

A few years back I was living on my own and there was an attempt to put the rent up by £50.  I didn't accept and they then came back with £15, which I accepted as rents had gone up in the area.

We are currently waiting to hear back about renewing at the moment.  Our opening stance will be no to any rent rise.  We will quote the Countrywide survey and the fact that another property in our block is empty and has just had to cut the rent asked by £25 pcm.  We might at a push accept a £25 rise (2%) as we don't want to move but certainly not 10%

 

The LLs are blithely assuming the tenants will pony up but what about if they can't or won't pay?  Are they really willing to serve a section 21 notice?  The LLs are forgetting a few things:

1) Voids - a 1 month void = 8% of annual rental income, which pretty much wipes out that 10% rise

2) Fees - New tenants means inventory and other fees to the agents

3) Maintenance - Most LLs do the bare minimum of maintenance when they have sitting tenants. When was the last time the carpets, the curtains or the shower were replaced? Answer - never.  When was the last time any redecorating was done? Answer - also never.  This might not be able to be put off any longer... (see point 1)

And for the portfolio landlord these 3 points could add up to a big hit on short term cash flow across multiple properties.

So Mr/Mrs/"Dr" Landlord are you really going to evict your existing tenants who pay the rent on time and keep the place tidy to gamble that you might be able to get 10% more from someone else with no void in between and that these new tenants won't turn out to be the sort of people you see on Nightmare Tenants Slum Landlords?  Do you feel lucky?

 

 

 

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Some will, just look at divorces. Individuals in good positions with great partners. They will make a leap to another partner for something that is perceived to be better.

Problem is those BTLers think their renters have is infinite and or they will cut back on other things to pay their rent.

There was something in a London news paper about 70%+ of take home pay being used to pay the rent. Take off council tax and other bills and it makes you wonder why would anybody bother? Why wouldn't they eventually simply down tools or do the modern equivilent move up north do a much crappier job but end up with more in your pocket. Add in tax credits and you're laughing.

 

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2 minutes ago, Dreamcasting said:

It won't work. There are plenty of people who will pony up the extra rent. A lot of dummies have accepted inflation so there's no reason to believe they'll say 'no' to a rent rise.

It works, I've said no before and a LL sucked it up. Obviously you have to be prepared to take a risk so it's not for everyone and it's difficult in a rising market. 

If you're feeling really ballsy and you don't have a good relationship with the LL anyway then another tip is to threaten to give your two months notice of moving out at a particularly dead time of year e.g. Sep/Oct for Nov/Dec. 

 

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My LL is having a similar issue.  After raising rents a little too hard a few months back in a shared property, she's now finding nobody willing to take the last room at that price.  Since it's inclusive of bills, this is causing quite some desperation!

On the bright side, she's reasonable - she says that whatever price she does find someone to take that room at, she'll reduce the rest of our rents to (since the rooms are all very similar in size).

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My rent has remained the same in 2 years, thank heavens. However, if my landlord try and increase it then I will refuse to pay anymore.

My damage deposit remains unprotected so he legally cannot increase it. :D I don't think he can legally serve me with an S21 either. :P

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5 minutes ago, MattW said:

My rent has remained the same in 2 years, thank heavens. However, if my landlord try and increase it then I will refuse to pay anymore.

My damage deposit remains unprotected so he legally cannot increase it. :DI don't think he can legally serve me with an S21 either. :P

http://www.barrellison.co.uk/legal-news-and-views/problems-with-tenancy-deposit-scheme-can-prevent-landlords-from-seeking-eviction

'A landlord in respect of a tenancy created on or after 6th April 2012 now has the longer period of 30 days (in place of 14) from the date the deposit is received in which to comply with the requirements as to protection and information and that deadline now appears to be absolute, certainly as far as protection is concerned.  Further the tenant’s right to claim for penalties survives the end of the tenancy.  The level of the penalties is now up to three times the deposit.

Implications

No notice to terminate the tenancy can be given under Section 21 of the Housing Act if the initial requirement as to protection of deposit has not been met.  It is no longer possible  to rectify this after the deadline for doing so, which leaves the errant landlord with no option but to return the deposit to the tenant before taking steps to recover possession under Section 21,'

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^ Thanks, Sancho Panza. :) I thought it was the case.

There will not be any deductions from my deposit when I quit the tenancy or else its straight to the small claims court!

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Since when did rents have anything to do with costs? Rent level is determined by a local market based broadly on supply and demand, which has nothing whatsoever to do with the landlord's costs. If it did then a recent BTL landlord might be charging double what an established landlord charges, because they paid twice as much to buy the property. Of course this isn't the case, and by the same token they can't necessarily put the rent up just because their costs have increased, unless the whole local market shifts.

Edited by Smith

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landlords are already charging as much as the market will support....or are they saying they are charging concessionary rents out of the goodness of their hearts???

if a landlord has additional costs and tries to recover from the tenant...the tenant should look for alternative accommodation without the additional cost and with rent in line with the market.

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2 hours ago, MattW said:

^ Thanks, Sancho Panza. :) I thought it was the case.

There will not be any deductions from my deposit when I quit the tenancy or else its straight to the small claims court!

The penalty is due full stop.If they didn't protect it within 30 days I believe,whether you've damaged the property or not.

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/tenancy_deposits/tenancy_deposit_protection_rules

 

'Tenancy deposit protection rules

Find out what your landlord or their letting agent must do to comply with tenancy deposit protection rules

Who tenancy deposit protection rules help

Landlords who rent a property to tenants with an assured shorthold tenancy have to follow tenancy deposit protection rules. Most private tenants have this type of tenancy. 

If you pay your tenancy deposit to a letting agent, your landlord may ask them to protect it on their behalf. Letting agents have to follow the same rules as landlords. 

Your deposit does not have to be protected with a tenancy deposit protection scheme if you:

How landlords must protect your tenancy deposit

Tenancy deposit protection rules say your landlord must both:

  • protect your deposit with a tenancy deposit protection scheme
  • provide you with information about the scheme used

There are 3 scheme providers:

Deposit Protection Service (DPS)

Dispute service (TDS)

mydeposits

Your landlord can either pay your money into the provider's custodial tenancy deposit scheme or can pay the scheme to insure your money.

Your landlord has to protect your deposit for the whole time you remain a tenant at the same property. 

If your landlord uses a tenancy deposit protection insurance scheme, they'll have to renew the insurance if they renew your tenancy or if you stay on after the end of your tenancy's fixed term. 

If your landlord pays your deposit into a tenancy deposit custodial scheme, the deposit continues to be protected so long as it remains there.

What information must be provided

Tenancy deposit protection rules say your landlord must give you this information in writing:

  • contact details of the tenancy deposit protection scheme that's protecting your deposit
  • how to get your deposit back when you leave
  • what deductions can be made from your deposit
  • how the scheme can help resolve a dispute about the return of your deposit
  • what happens to your deposit if you or your landlord can't be contacted after the tenancy ends

Your landlord must also provide you with their name, address and contact details. If your landlord used a letting agent to set up your tenancy, they can supply you with their contact details.

Your landlord must also give you a copy of a deposit protection certificate. This must be signed by the landlord.

In some cases the tenancy deposit scheme provider will provide you with a repayment ID number. Keep this safe. You'll need it to get your deposit back when you leave.

Time limits for tenancy deposits to be protected

Your landlord will have broken tenancy deposit protection rules if they fail to both protect your deposit in a tenancy deposit protection scheme and provide you with prescribed information within these time-limits.

Deposits paid on or after 6 April 2012

Your landlord has 30 days to protect your deposit after it's paid. 

Deposits paid from 6 April 2007 to 5 April 2012

Your landlord had until 6 May 2012 to protect your deposit if you paid it on or after 6 April 2007 but before 6 April 2012.

Deposits paid before 6 April 2007 

Your landlord had until 23 June 2015 to protect your deposit if all these apply:

  • you paid a tenancy deposit before 6 April 2007
  • your tenancy had a fixed term that ended on or after 6 April 2007
  • you haven't signed up to a new fixed term agreement since

Your landlord had until 6 May 2012 to protect your tenancy deposit if you paid it before 6 April 2007 and your tenancy was first renewed before 6 April 2012.

Your landlord had 30 days from the date your tenancy was renewed to protect your tenancy deposit if you paid it before 6 April 2007 and your tenancy was first renewed on or after 6 April 2012.

Penalties if your landlord breaks tenancy deposit rules

Your landlord faces penalties if they don't protect your tenancy deposit as required by tenancy deposit protection rules. 

Your landlord will have to pay you compensation of between 1 and 3 times the amount of your deposit.

Tenancy deposit breaches can make a section 21 notice invalid.

Your landlord may:

  • be unable to get a court order to evict you using the section 21 notice procedure
  • have to refund your deposit in full before they can use a section 21 notice

Find out more about section 21 evictions.

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Looks like it's best to go after compensation after you've left.

 

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/tenancy_deposits/tenancy_deposit_compensation_claims

'Tenancy deposit compensation claims

If your landlord breaks tenancy deposit rules, a court can order them to protect or return your tenancy deposit and pay you compensation.

1. Check if you can claim compensation

You can take court action to claim compensation if your landlord breaks tenancy deposit protection rules. These only apply if you have an assured shorthold tenancy.

You can make a claim for compensation during your tenancy or after it ends.

Compensation

You can claim compensation of 1 to 3 times the amount of your tenancy deposit if your landlord:

  • doesn't protect your tenancy deposit in a tenancy deposit protection scheme
  • doesn't give you certain information about the scheme being used
  • takes too long to protect your deposit or give you prescribed information

Find out more about the tenancy deposit protection rules your landlord should follow.

Protection of your tenancy deposit

If your tenancy hasn't ended, you can also ask the court to order your landlord to protect your deposit in a tenancy deposit protection scheme. Sometimes the court will order your landlord to return your deposit instead.

Refund of your tenancy deposit

You can ask the court to order your landlord to refund your tenancy deposit (providing it hasn't already been returned).

Risk of taking action during your tenancy

Your landlord may be less likely to renew your tenancy if you take court action while still living in the property. If they haven't protected your tenancy deposit, they'll face restrictions on their right to evict you.'

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