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Fairyland

American workers replaced with cheaper labour and asked to train their replacement

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Its been happening here in IT since 2000.

What's more they usually 'pay' the guys minimum wage + tax & NI free relocation exps.

Probably over 100K jobs to date.

People in IT have been reporting this, but the media never does.

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2 minutes ago, hotairmail said:

It's been happening for decades.

Yep.

And the funny thing is that it generally wasn't EU workers displacing the white collar workers, it was people brought in by big Indian firms. 

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Is it simply the case that people in the UK and US who want to own a house are unaffordable to employ, but people who don't want to own a house are affordable. After corporate greed, companies cannot pay enough to the former because it would make their products too expensive for the latter to buy. A bit of a dilemma

Edited by LiveinHope

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Lets just say that a large motor manufacturer based in the midlands regularly advertise for jobs with rates anything from 50% to 60% of the going rate for the particular job.

No body who can do the job would apply for these positions at that rate, hey presto, the UK does not have enough skilled people, can we have some more visas please.

The change in the workforce over the last 25 years is staggering, the technical centres are like foreign countries.

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1 hour ago, hotairmail said:

It's been happening for decades.

+1

Not much point in most higher education etc for indigenous people - except to keep colleges turning over and their staff in employment - and to keep the unemployment stats down - plus keeping people under control.

People can use their own adjectives to describe such a system and to describe the "people" implementing it.

Edited by billybong

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1 hour ago, hotairmail said:

It's been happening for decades.

+1 

I work at a bank in a finance area and my old team of 16 have just been through this.

Didnt watch the full video so im not sure this is the exact point being made -  but in my experience guys from india come over on a visa for 3-6 Months training side by side with the guy whose job they are taking... Then they ho back to india and do a job for £7kgbp thata guy in the uk would expect to be paid £40-50k gbp for.

When your replacement comes to take your job not only do you have to be polite to them, you are expected to take them out socially including going sightseeing etc as 'its a once in a lifetime opportunity for these guys'

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23 minutes ago, Futuroid said:

Thank you for posting this information. I was not aware of this visa type and it's use.

Do companies pay national insurance/tax for workers hired under this tier 2 visa?

Was the earlier threshold of £20,800 before tax? I believe tier-2 workers are not eligible for tax credits. How did they live in the southeast with extortionate rents?

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13 minutes ago, regprentice said:

+1 

I work at a bank in a finance area and my old team of 16 have just been through this.

Didnt watch the full video so im not sure this is the exact point being made -  but in my experience guys from india come over on a visa for 3-6 Months training side by side with the guy whose job they are taking... Then they ho back to india and do a job for £7kgbp thata guy in the uk would expect to be paid £40-50k gbp for.

When your replacement comes to take your job not only do you have to be polite to them, you are expected to take them out socially including going sightseeing etc as 'its a once in a lifetime opportunity for these guys'

This must have been really hard for your team. Some of them may have felt humiliated. Job loss, pressure to find new job and then the social bit ... How did they handle it?

Were the foreign workers told that there is a skill shortage in the UK?

 

Edited by Fairyland

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Trump may be a lound outhed lying buffon ... but he gets some stuff right.

H1B is one of those things.

Its easily fixable by raising the minimum wage to $250k and insisting on a any country that exports must open up to US companies. That would stop India dead. Like CHina, the claim to free trade only goes one way.

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1 hour ago, Unbowed said:

Its been happening here in IT since 2000.

What's more they usually 'pay' the guys minimum wage + tax & NI free relocation exps.

Probably over 100K jobs to date.

People in IT have been reporting this, but the media never does.

Do you think the media should pick this up? 

If there is no job security for the younger generation then what is the point of uni debt?

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1 hour ago, Unbowed said:

Its been happening here in IT since 2000.

What's more they usually 'pay' the guys minimum wage + tax & NI free relocation exps.

Probably over 100K jobs to date.

People in IT have been reporting this, but the media never does.

Any trip down Surrey street at lunchtime in Norwich over the last ten years would leave you in no doubt Aviva where planning to move thousands to India.

Classic tactics once the name Norwich Union is changed...there is no need to be in Norwich.

Some office blocks around Norwich are now for sale/sold as the process has been completed and rendered them useless.

Norwich Union used to boast of giving every graduate in Norwich a Job we loose companies like that and replace the offices with flats.

They had sports teams and a facility called pinebanks for socialising etc.... all gone.

I just dont believe all these good jobs in tower blocks have been replaced on the outskirts of the city overall.

Edited by Fromage Frais

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9 minutes ago, Fairyland said:

This must have been really hard for your team. Some of them may have felt humiliated. Job loss, pressure to find new job and then the social bit ... How did they handle it?

Were the foreign workers told that there is a skill shortage in the UK?

 

They work with a lot of guys in india on a daily basis. And they knew it was on the cards for several years and are surprised it took so long. It is distressibg though,particularly for around 1/3 of them who have worked there their whole lives, fall just short of early retirement and have no idea what they will do now, having no formal banking or finance qualifications. Being fair, the flip side is if you go out to india the team there will take you to the taj mahal....but if you are in that position you are maybe the 'lucky' 1 in 5 who didnt get offshored.

We dont talk about skill shortages or costs. We talk about being 'global' and having a 'global presence'. By calling new offshore teams 'centres of excellence' they create the 'vision' that the new teams are acheiving something the old teams couldnt. They make it sound like having people in india /uk means customers have 24 hour cover, what it actually means is there are only 3 hours in the day you are in the office at the same time as the people you face off to in india. They cant stay late as apparently the area they work in isnt safe and they all travel around in a fleet of taxis that dissapear magically for the day at 5.05pm local time.

Before the mass move to india we used to use a small amount of offshoring in singapore where english and work skills are exceptional but their wages crept up too high and we pulled the plug when they got to 90% of uk wages. We also offshore some work to Poland. A friend works for another bank who are offshoring their tax function to srilanka. Apparently its the new India as india are starting to price themselves out of the market. 

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36 minutes ago, SirGaz said:

The comments under the article would have a guardianistas head spinning so fast it would fall off.

Ironically, it's not the guardianistas who employ IT departments full of people on Tier-2 visas. 

It tends to be the Telegraph readers...

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9 minutes ago, Fairyland said:

Do you think the media should pick this up? 

If there is no job security for the younger generation then what is the point of uni debt?

For the *majority* of students there already isn't one except where the profession requires.. 

 

Its only a matter of time of time before SLC realise they're never even going to see half of the 45K debt PER PERSON especially with issues like outsourcing, automation, no job security and real wages declining.

 

Its not not even been 5 years and Osbourne already froze the level at which repayment kicks in & the maintenance grants have been replaced with another loan. 

 

Doesn't take a Bachelors to figure out how it will end. 

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39 minutes ago, Fairyland said:

Thank you for posting this information. I was not aware of this visa type and it's use.

Do companies pay national insurance/tax for workers hired under this tier 2 visa?

Was the earlier threshold of £20,800 before tax? I believe tier-2 workers are not eligible for tax credits. How did they live in the southeast with extortionate rents?

No this is the whole point. Don't know what the latest rules are, but it used to be that they had to 'paid' 24K.

BUT, that that is the total. They get a min wage, to comply with the law (so minimal Tax + NI). The remainder is then a HMRC temporary relocation approved payment (i.e. effectively untaxed CASH).

So it round figures it costs the companies, about 25K pa to put 2K a month net in these guys pockets. Compare that with paying a local 35K under PAYE.

So its not just the Indian outsourcers, round here in the Thames valley, its been Dell, HP, BT etc. My wife worked in the Dole office in the early 2000s, 25% of new claims, were redundant IT workers.

Here's an old story about it:

http://www.computerweekly.com/blog/Investigating-Outsourcing/Offshore-IT-workers-in-the-UK-avoid-paying-taxes-but-are-not-breaking-the-law

 

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1 hour ago, Futuroid said:

I live next door to an Indian IT worker. He has also bought 2 BTLs up north.

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31 minutes ago, Unbowed said:

No this is the whole point. Don't know what the latest rules are, but it used to be that they had to 'paid' 24K.

BUT, that that is the total. They get a min wage, to comply with the law (so minimal Tax + NI). The remainder is then a HMRC temporary relocation approved payment (i.e. effectively untaxed CASH).

So it round figures it costs the companies, about 25K pa to put 2K a month net in these guys pockets. Compare that with paying a local 35K under PAYE.

So its not just the Indian outsourcers, round here in the Thames valley, its been Dell, HP, BT etc. My wife worked in the Dole office in the early 2000s, 25% of new claims, were redundant IT workers.

Here's an old story about it:

http://www.computerweekly.com/blog/Investigating-Outsourcing/Offshore-IT-workers-in-the-UK-avoid-paying-taxes-but-are-not-breaking-the-law

Thank you for the link. There was another link on that page which helped me understand.

http://www.computerweekly.com/blog/Investigating-Outsourcing/Offshore-IT-workers-in-the-UK-avoid-paying-taxes-but-are-not-breaking-the-law

Table 1 migration watch.jpg

 

Edited by Fairyland

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