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wsn03

BTLs heading North - alert!

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I'm fixing my mortgage before the inevitable interest rate rises. House is in my name, as you might see from another thread I started my wife was about to borrow 60k to buy a house with her Mother, now we've decided to live in mine.

My broker suggested we could use that 60k available to buy a Buy to Let. F****, seriously?

I told him about the tax changes etc. "Ahh, but the people I'm networking with are all heading up North, where the yields still make it worth it". He then quoted something about houses for £60,000 no doubt in some horrid and depressed town in the 8rse end of nowhere, and pointed out "yields" of up to 30%...apparently.

I share the views on here of the scummy obsession with BTL. Interesting that this seems to be the new mind-set though, simply head to where places are cheaper, pay less tax. Says nothing of the prospect of maintenance, difficulty finding renters, difficulties in being able to charge high rents, coping with non-payment etc. Its still an obsession, people would still rather invest in stupid over-priced ramp driven houses than in industry and commerce that actually creates something.

Anyone else heard about this, the head up north thing?

 

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This sounds about right.. some people i know have been buying up in Scotland.. in poorest areas of course.. where they can get about 10% gross yield... when leveraged up.. e.g. 75% LTV, it's then 40% gross return on investment.  

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11 minutes ago, Mr Foster said:

This sounds about right.. some people i know have been buying up in Scotland.. in poorest areas of course.. where they can get about 10% gross yield... when leveraged up.. e.g. 75% LTV, it's then 40% gross return on investment.  

If they let it for a year.

 

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1 hour ago, wsn03 said:

I told him about the tax changes etc. "Ahh, but the people I'm networking with are all heading up North, where the yields still make it worth it". He then quoted something about houses for £60,000 no doubt in some horrid and depressed town in the 8rse end of nowhere, and pointed out "yields" of up to 30%...apparently.

The house next door to where I grew up went for 25k recently, 3 bed terrace.  You wouldn't want to live there and you wouldn't want too attempt to rent it out either - its a hard place.  When I was a kid it was lovely though.  Unemployment came first and then BTL's followed and ruined the whole area.  However, the amount of houses now coming up for rental or sale is astounding, even my mum remarked on it.

The biggest BTL landlord I know of (100+) houses and local is now selling his own house.  Whether its related to S24 etc or not I don't know.  He lives less than 5 mins walk from the 25k properties but want over half a million for his walled McMansion. Talk about shitting in your own nest.

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It is not all bad up north some good terrace house areas , good detached areas ! Every town has a 10 % sh:thole area ! Even down south ! Most northern towns are very friendly . It makes me laugh the preconception a lot have of northern towns. They can be quite vibrant places to live due to the much lower percentages of average income spent renting of mortgaging properties ! 

 

In in my opinion any new business setting up within M25 should have triple rates south of Birmingham double rates  to disperse employment  further north ! 

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Just now, PSP said:

It is not all bad up north some good terrace house areas , good detached areas ! Every town has a 10 % sh:thole area ! Even down south ! Most northern towns are very friendly . It makes me laugh the preconception a lot have of northern towns. They can be quite vibrant places to live due to the much lower percentages of average income spent renting of mortgaging properties ! 

 

In in my opinion any new business setting up within M25 should have triple rates south of Birmingham double rates  to disperse employment  further north ! 

Can't find edit button ! What I meant was due to lower mortgages and lower rents people have higher percentage disposable income! Which makes places more vibrant !

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I genuinely hope that the tenants trash their little high yielding northern investment and then as the Landlords train passes Doncaster on the way up to assess the damage they trip up in the vestibule and seriously bruise their coccyx.

How about actually investing in something productive in your own communities you parasites. Stay the f*ck out of ours.

Edited by Lavalas

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My MD is up to his neck in IO BTL up north.

Used to like telling everyone about it at any given opportunity.

Gone very quiet now, I wonder why......?

Though I think a divorce might have ironically just saved his ass.

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Early investors might do ok but too many will pile in and the voids will mount up .

I saw an article today about BTL still saying most mortgages are IO ..just a joke thats helping fuel an increasing bubble 

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I don't know that it's all that new - when I used to watch HUTH while ironing (don't often do that any more since Mr B has nicked that room for a study) there were always LLs buying seriously cheap houses up north, doing them up very cheaply and reckoning  on guaranteed high yields - presumably courtesy of HB.  Don't remember anything like as high as 30%, but there were certainly plenty at 12-14% or so.  A lot higher yield than anything in the SE. 

I particularly remember one such years ago, positively gleeful over a projected 14% - he'd turned a 2nd reception into a 5th bedroom and had a woman with 7 kids about to move in.  This was before the max 4 bed HB rule.  

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15 hours ago, wsn03 said:

My broker suggested we could use that 60k available to buy a Buy to Let. F****, seriously?

I told him about the tax changes etc. "Ahh, but the people I'm networking with are all heading up North, where the yields still make it worth it". He then quoted something about houses for £60,000 no doubt in some horrid and depressed town in the 8rse end of nowhere, and pointed out "yields" of up to 30%...apparently.

I share the views on here of the scummy obsession with BTL. Interesting that this seems to be the new mind-set though, simply head to where places are cheaper, pay less tax. Says nothing of the prospect of maintenance, difficulty finding renters, difficulties in being able to charge high rents, coping with non-payment etc. Its still an obsession, people would still rather invest in stupid over-priced ramp driven houses than in industry and commerce that actually creates something.

What does a mortgage broker sell again?

"People I'm networking with are all heading up North... yields...." (already makes him sound a bit of a HPIer saddo imo).

My guess is many BTL/HPI heads are pushing the 'S24 / HPI it wil be okay' cuddly message, imo, to reassure each other.

..............not taking anything away from their bravery and real sacrifice in fighting for a such important cause, but simply because so many of the BTLers now like war themes in their discussion (it is a type of war from my pov), processing and concerned about S24 shock... all the networking talk could be ignorant reassurance and cuddles.  S24 yet to put its grip on the existing BTLers who have doubled down into 'providing homes'. 

If it were really true, as a mortgage broker, he could have answered more convincingly with something like, "because I have been writing new BTL mortgages each day."

Quote

If they think you are a good bet they will want to 'sell' you money. The clever bit about selling is that the seller decides when they intended victim will buy, and the subtle thing about buying is buying exactly when you want to. If you let them suck you in you could be making fatal mistakes.

 

Quote

“It was the job of people like me to make up reasons, to spin a plausible yarn. And it’s amazing what people will believe. Heavy selling out of the Middle East was an old standby. Since no one ever had any clue what the Arabs were doing with their money or why, no story involving Arabs could ever be refuted. So if you didn’t know why the dollar was falling, you shouted out something about Arabs.”
-Michael Lewis, Liar's Poker 

 

Or maybe I am being too cynical and it really is a BTLer march going North.  As others have suggested, good luck with boiler repair, with your yield chasing.

The North.. just so happy to not have to maintain a pile of bricks, against these monied up/ debt BTLers providing homes.

 

I can name fingers and point names.

BTLers make their own choices regardless.  I doubt the brokers are fighting fair.  Money money money.

Quote

Will Turner: You didn't beat me. You ignored the rules of engagement. In a fair fight, I'd kill you.
Jack Sparrow: That's not much incentive for me to fight fair, then, is it?

 

Edited by Venger

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And here's a Northern landlord who is not happy about S24.

165 properties for 1 older guy.......    maybe new BTLers can find bargains if such BTLers look/need to sell up, or maybe the young tenants get opportunity to buy at 50% below today's market values.    

Either way.... BTLers rush in at their peril imo, into S24, and many other measures (licensing + costs of that, coming into many an area, for the BTLers)

Quote

 

"If the Government goes through with this, they would be the ones making people homeless by forcing landlords to sell their houses."

Mr Idoine, who owns 165 properties in Hull, said the new tax rules would make being a landlord unprofitable.

"They are going to tax me to the point where I'm not going to make any money," he said.

 


http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/young-hull-family-say-landlord-tax-changes-could-leave-them-homeless/story-30170010-detail/story.html

 

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14 hours ago, Mr Foster said:

This sounds about right.. some people i know have been buying up in Scotland.. in poorest areas of course.. where they can get about 10% gross yield... when leveraged up.. e.g. 75% LTV, it's then 40% gross return on investment.  

You post it like it's a certainty.

Some of your BTLers will be bankrupt before we're through.

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3 hours ago, Venger said:

And here's a Northern landlord who is not happy about S24.

165 properties for 1 older guy.......    maybe new BTLers can find bargains if such BTLers look/need to sell up, or maybe the young tenants get opportunity to buy at 50% below today's market values.    

Either way.... BTLers rush in at their peril imo, into S24, and many other measures (licensing + costs of that, coming into many an area, for the BTLers)


http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/young-hull-family-say-landlord-tax-changes-could-leave-them-homeless/story-30170010-detail/story.html

 

So out of 165 households he was able to get one tenant to comment on his "plight"....

Yet all that will happen is that he will go bankrupt, the houses sold and a lot of those tenants may be able to pay as prices drop... 

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