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wsn03

When the kids come back

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I have two friends who highlight the disaster our housing market is.

One of them bought his council house for £55,000 in the late 90s. He's financially killed himself funding 3 kids, but pleased that at least he did well out of his house. His kids have grown up and left home. He has no savings or investments, and no pension. A few weeks ago one of his daughters moved back in with her boyfriend and their kid. Reason - she can't afford to live anywhere else. Now he has no space and the prospect of them being with him for years.

My other friend is quite successful. He has bought a house and renovated it, borrowed a lot more than he'd like to. Why? He needed that big house because his partner wants to ensure her son has enough space to live in it with his wife and children one day, because she can't see how he'll ever be able to afford a house of his own. The kid is 7 years old. When people start thinking like that there's something very wrong indeed. She is from an ex communist country mind so you can see why she might not be used to the free market boom/ bust cycle. But still, he's from here, and he signed his life away to all that debt.

I wonder how many other people realise their fantastic gains are now going to be completely useless as the kids won't be able to leave home. I wonder when people will realise that the only winners in this are those leaving the country and the middle men.

I despair.

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5 minutes ago, wsn03 said:

I wonder when people will realise that the only winners in this are those leaving the country and the middle men.

You can also win the game by declining to play (while remaining in the country).

Edited by Errol

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The other side of this is when the kids never leave....

All my neighbours are falling out as the street parking situation deteriorates year on year. The adults kids don't move out, they get a car, their boyfriend / girlfriend stays moves in and they have a car too...  

Before you know it one house can have 6 cars parked outside.  All the old duffers are knocking on the doors of people in their 40's and 50's complaining about not being able to park for their kids.

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9 minutes ago, Errol said:

You can also win the game by declining to play (while remaining in the country).

I wouldn't buy anything. I've recently been handed the chance to live somewhere paid for by mother-in-law, can't believe my luck (see separate thread). But the market is so scr3wed I've declined it, I've stopped her wasting her money. When I turn down the chance of a massive freebie, because I refuse to support this nonsense, you know its got to be near the end. I won't play the game, and I'd encourage everyone to do the same.

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1 minute ago, Bunfight said:

The other side of this is when the kids never leave....

All my neighbours are falling out as the street parking situation deteriorates year on year. The adults kids don't move out, they get a car, their boyfriend / girlfriend stays moves in and they have a car too...  

Before you know it one house can have 6 cars parked outside.  All the old duffers are knocking on the doors of people in their 40's and 50's complaining about not being able to park for their kids.

We are 6 in a 3 bed house, there are 2 other families the same - one has 5, the other has about 7. All cases are kids living with their parents, but now with their own kids. I'm in this situation because my wife moved back to her Mothers years ago after her divorce, and then realised she couldn't afford a house anymore. We've had 2 babies plus my step son, and its great living with my Mother-in-law. As we run out of space we're moving to my house which has the space, its just a bit of an upheaval for her to a place she doesn't know.

I bought a very long time ago. If I hadn't, and I was on an average salary like the families on our street, we'd never be able to leave. Its so screwed up.

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5 minutes ago, wsn03 said:

I bought a very long time ago. If I hadn't, and I was on an average salary like the families on our street, we'd never be able to leave. Its so screwed up.

Amen.  The amount of extensions going on near me is also bonkers too.  People taking their house right upto next doors fences, no green space left etc.  When this bubble eventually pops it'll be visible from low orbit. Bring. it. on. :lol:

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Not meaning to be berrating but...could always stop having so many kids, then you'll have more space...see how it works? Probably the reason why decent salary earners are making that decision, rather than a lifestyle choice....or owning a house. None of it makes economical sense anymore......

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1 hour ago, Bunfight said:

The other side of this is when the kids never leave....

All my neighbours are falling out as the street parking situation deteriorates year on year. The adults kids don't move out, they get a car, their boyfriend / girlfriend stays moves in and they have a car too...  

Before you know it one house can have 6 cars parked outside.  All the old duffers are knocking on the doors of people in their 40's and 50's complaining about not being able to park for their kids.

Saw one house with six cars parked, the front garden was now a car park ........No parking on the street permitted without payment.....Stress of finding a place to park after a hard day's work.....The stress of carrying the kids and the shopping home from a car parked streets away......MOVE.....only and best answer, freedom is to park anywhere no restrictions nor fees.;)

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36 minutes ago, Maximus Skepticus said:

Not meaning to be berrating but...could always stop having so many kids, then you'll have more space...see how it works? Probably the reason why decent salary earners are making that decision, rather than a lifestyle choice....or owning a house. None of it makes economical sense anymore......

That would make sense today - sadly, 17 years ago we hadn't got a clue that this cluster-frack was going to happen.

Too late to send them back now - they are out of warranty.

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38 minutes ago, Maximus Skepticus said:

Not meaning to be berrating but...could always stop having so many kids, then you'll have more space...see how it works? Probably the reason why decent salary earners are making that decision, rather than a lifestyle choice....or owning a house. None of it makes economical sense anymore......

Sometimes it requires many workers in one house to pay for one house......;)

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Just discussed this thread with the missus, and she corrected me.

There are 8 houses on her street (opposite is council land with flats on, don't know who is in them).

Five of the houses (all 3 bedroom council or ex council) have 3 generations living in them!

Maximus, I could stop having "so many" kids (not that 3 is that many), I could also kill myself or live in a tent. I'm pointing out how screwed up todays housing market is, not debating the future of demographics. People will have children, but without reasonable prices they aren't going to be able to afford to live anywhere.

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43 minutes ago, Maximus Skepticus said:

Not meaning to be berrating but...could always stop having so many kids, then you'll have more space...see how it works? Probably the reason why decent salary earners are making that decision, rather than a lifestyle choice....or owning a house. None of it makes economical sense anymore......

How many is "so many"?

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2 hours ago, wsn03 said:

When people start thinking like that there's something very wrong indeed.

I was planning something like this when I bought a fixer-upper in 2010 (youngest child was only 3 at the time).  With the extensions I've done,  I can now easily split into two flats of ~1150 sqft each.  An outbuilding can be used for a 1200sqft barn-conversion.

So me and the Mrs in the downstairs half, the kids can have their own space each. We all get more space than the average new house.

That's me sorted for old age and the kids won't have to pay a landlord. They can save up and move out when they want.

 

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20 minutes ago, VeryMeanReversion said:

I was planning something like this when I bought a fixer-upper in 2010 (youngest child was only 3 at the time).  With the extensions I've done,  I can now easily split into two flats of ~1150 sqft each.  An outbuilding can be used for a 1200sqft barn-conversion.

So me and the Mrs in the downstairs half, the kids can have their own space each. We all get more space than the average new house.

That's me sorted for old age and the kids won't have to pay a landlord. They can save up and move out when they want.

 

My wife is Asian, this is quite a common thing to do in her culture she says. Makes a lot of sense, and I'm hoping my kids do the same. The trouble is at todays prices I'd tell them not to bother, just live with us forever!

Living at home and saving for a place is a bit different to living at home forever because you'll never be able to afford a place.

Edited by wsn03

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29 minutes ago, VeryMeanReversion said:

I was planning something like this when I bought a fixer-upper in 2010 (youngest child was only 3 at the time).  With the extensions I've done,  I can now easily split into two flats of ~1150 sqft each.  An outbuilding can be used for a 1200sqft barn-conversion.

So me and the Mrs in the downstairs half, the kids can have their own space each. We all get more space than the average new house.

That's me sorted for old age and the kids won't have to pay a landlord. They can save up and move out when they want.

 

That is ok for you, but my parents would have used that as a way to control every aspect of my life.  In that case they would force me to go swimming 3 times a week - they are fanatically pro swimming and I am not.

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5 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

That is ok for you, but my parents would have used that as a way to control every aspect of my life.  In that case they would force me to go swimming 3 times a week - they are fanatically pro swimming and I am not.

#FirstWorldProblems ;)

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Just now, CunningPlan said:

#FirstWorldProblems ;)

I know people who live in a 3rd world country and there children can afford similar housing to their parents.  You can leave home if you like and afford somewhere decent.  (If I could get a visa I would be living there with them).

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This is an often overlooked joy of renting.

My kids are being flung out next year, and Mrs and I are moving somewhere smaller in a different part of the country. She says we need at least three/four beds for when they come back home. I said the chance of them coming home for more than a week or two at a time are remote and they can bunk on the sofa or stay in a B&B which I will happily pay for with the money we save by renting smaller.

If you are renting a four bedder with the kids it is quite easy to up sticks and rent a flat for us and a 2 bedder for the kids for the same money if they wanted to return more permanently. 

I was able to leave home at a young age and I will make sure they can too.

#IWantMyLifeBack

 

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i myself was forced to move home again so that i could save. I could still save while renting, but i would of been mid 40's before buying a starter home. i was single while renting so didnt get the economies of scale as you get in a relationship. And i also tried living in a shared house HMO for 7 months, but the constant lack of sleep and the student cooking his shitty boxers in the dryer turned me off to ever doing that again even at £75 a weeks all bills inc.

now i should be able to buy just before i turn 30. i was lucky that my older parents could not bring themselves to buying a smaller lower 'status' house when they were house hunting. They ended up buying a 4 bed to rattle around in. 

As it turns out their status decision worked out well, as at one point both myself (28ish) and sister (30ish) were living at home (two years).

We now have about 75k saved, which makes buying seem less painful. It can all be lost equity. but we will sort a place out soon.

A lot of my once bragging boomer work-mates now have children and grandchildren moving back in with them, several families in one house. Reality is starting to dawn on them. 

 

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It's  not just here.  We have friends in Melbourne (Aussies, not emigre Brits) whose daughter, son in law and their 2 kids have been living with them for several years.  They can't afford to buy and renting is very expensive.  

The house is big enough, but friends' plans to downsize have vanished into thin air.  The house is a good size and there would  probably be enough to buy a smaller place for themselves and make a sufficient part payment for a place for the daughter, but they have another child and doing the same for both would mean the maths don't add up.  

Also have friends in Ireland in a house they have been wanting to downsize from for some time, but have been unable to because of a daughter + her husband + 2 kids living with them - again unable to afford to buy, and there are another 2 grown up kids they'd have to treat equally. 

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4 hours ago, PSP said:

Come up north ! Loads of cheap houses buy three for the price of one down south !

I'm looking at Harrogate. Cant wait to leave my highly strung/ arsey/ stress-head unnatural disposition in sw London (were it belongs). 

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8 hours ago, wsn03 said:

Just discussed this thread with the missus, and she corrected me.

There are 8 houses on her street (opposite is council land with flats on, don't know who is in them).

Five of the houses (all 3 bedroom council or ex council) have 3 generations living in them!

Maximus, I could stop having "so many" kids (not that 3 is that many), I could also kill myself or live in a tent. I'm pointing out how screwed up todays housing market is, not debating the future of demographics. People will have children, but without reasonable prices they aren't going to be able to afford to live anywhere.

Not meaning to antagonise you personally (I've transcended arguing on forums ;-) )....seems that having kids in general, especially those who can't absolutely or predictively afford them is some sort of human right without consequence. It's as natural as going to the bog, just a biochemical reaction which can be stopped, although shouldnt prevent going to the loo ;-). With the UK population density increasing, and more and more people wont be able to support themselves fully because the pie gets smaller, and ultimately become a burdeon on the state in some form, or at least diminshing resources. More zero hours contracts? A controversial view you may say, but just as much as the impact BTL has who people berrate socially, rightfully so imo. It's a zero-sum game, and this country and plenty of others are the least cooperative socially or even efficiently communicative, meaning the optimal social solution is never reached. Purely because of greed probably, and indoctrination. Not saying cant have kids, saying those who probably shouldnt are having disproportionally more than those who arent, but may be should, in the long term?

 

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