Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Recommended Posts

This Furnish thing and now this report coming out. (Leaving aside the Wiggins stuff)

It's pretty interesting. It's looking like some individuals may have been treated a bit harshly. However this is the single most consistent successful British team sporting success story for a long long time. 

Should we try and change it to be more pleasant for all those involved ?

Or does the old adage - if it ain't broke don't try and fix it apply ?

I would probably veer towards the second. 

If there were hoards of present and past cycling individuals coming out saying it's going too far then I would agree it needs seriously looked at. However it seems so far to be a few individuals only. 

Not enough to rip apart something so successful ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMHO it has been so successful because of the aforesaid individuals. Highly driven, pressuring, not particularly nice individuals who pushed people into being the best in the world.

If you want touchy feely, inclusive, diverse, and managed by committee British Cycling then that's fine. But they will then go back to the days of winning the square root of SFA.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is starting to look like all (or most) successful sports people are not very 'sporting'.  I think that we should go back to being sporting and not institutionalise and celebrate bullying.  Lets forget about the winning nonsense its really not very British.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

somehow I knew this would be the OT reaction- treat people, especially women, like shit, it works! Yeah right. Apart from anything else it seems Varnish wasn't even the slowest rider when she was canned. Where was the results focus there?  Seems there was a culture of indifference towards women riders, and marking athletes as being difficult when eg asking questions during sessions, in a way which didn't occur with male athletes. These are huge flashing warning lights in my view.

I was also surprised to realise, that Nicole Cooke, one of the best road riders team GB has ever had is around 3 years younger than Wiggins. Seems like she has been gone for a long time. She was scathing about British Cycling. I'd suggest she might have views worth taking seriously.

We are after all talking about full time athletes on the programme. At least you ought to run it in line with the sort of treatment one might reasonably expect from any other decent employer. It's not difficult, just don't hire assholes or ignore issues which any other employer would take an interest in eg bullying, intimidation etc.

 

I doubt most people would say that having a tyrannical boss really made them try harder or enabled them to get the best out of themselves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, The Knimbies who say No said:

somehow I knew this would be the OT reaction- treat people, especially women, like shit, it works! Yeah right. Apart from anything else it seems Varnish wasn't even the slowest rider when she was canned. Where was the results focus there?  Seems there was a culture of indifference towards women riders, and marking athletes as being difficult when eg asking questions during sessions, in a way which didn't occur with male athletes. These are huge flashing warning lights in my view.

I was also surprised to realise, that Nicole Cooke, one of the best road riders team GB has ever had is around 3 years younger than Wiggins. Seems like she has been gone for a long time. She was scathing about British Cycling. I'd suggest she might have views worth taking seriously.

We are after all talking about full time athletes on the programme. At least you ought to run it in line with the sort of treatment one might reasonably expect from any other decent employer. It's not difficult, just don't hire assholes or ignore issues which any other employer would take an interest in eg bullying, intimidation etc.

 

I doubt most people would say that having a tyrannical boss really made them try harder or enabled them to get the best out of themselves.

It's been a successful team. But I suspect managing it is like herding cats as all the team members will be fiercely competitive. Some very talented individuals will often also feel that they know what is best and may disagree with management at some points, especially if they see or perceive favoritism or unfairness that hinders their or the teams greater success. The key management skill is to be able to include / retain those individuals by listening to their concerns (after all they may be valid), answering the concerns if necessary, and so bring the individual onside to keep them in the team. Management is a tough and skilled occupation that also requires you to be able to admit to being wrong, tough whether it is sports, science or business. Another example that springs to my mind is K Pietersen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, The Knimbies who say No said:

I doubt most people would say that having a tyrannical boss really made them try harder or enabled them to get the best out of themselves.

I know what you mean but sporty people are not like most people so its hard to fathom their mindset.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

UK Media is full of people who treat the others they work with like dirt. Lots of people who are nice to camera can be complete sh*ts to the people they work with. The management of many Media organisations turn a blind eye to this. Some think it is normal as it has always been that way. Many of the staff who work in these organisations put up with it because they want to be on the greasey pole with ambitions of being the top dog themselves one day. You could say they are all as bad as each other.

I suspect that there is some of this in British Cycling.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ccc said:

This Furnish thing and now this report coming out. (Leaving aside the Wiggins stuff)

It's pretty interesting. It's looking like some individuals may have been treated a bit harshly. However this is the single most consistent successful British team sporting success story for a long long time. 

Should we try and change it to be more pleasant for all those involved ?

Or does the old adage - if it ain't broke don't try and fix it apply ?

I would probably veer towards the second. 

If there were hoards of present and past cycling individuals coming out saying it's going too far then I would agree it needs seriously looked at. However it seems so far to be a few individuals only. 

Not enough to rip apart something so successful ?

Russia...population 200million.

 

UK...population 60 million

 

Russia...drug cheats apparently.

 

Go look at the last 6 medal tables and tell me there's not something going on?

 

Athletes ate effectively being state sponsorored, via grants and lottery, try competing against that if you are from a poor country.

 

Might not be drug cheating but certainly financial doping 

 

The London Olympics had to be a Nazi style success and they were.

 

Cyclying has had a fortune spent on it...while people go to foodbanks.

Heard some basketball players on radio a couple years ago complaining because their state hand out was being cut and they'd need to get jobs.

Leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ccc said:

This Furnish thing and now this report coming out. (Leaving aside the Wiggins stuff)

It's pretty interesting. It's looking like some individuals may have been treated a bit harshly. However this is the single most consistent successful British team sporting success story for a long long time. 

Should we try and change it to be more pleasant for all those involved ?

Or does the old adage - if it ain't broke don't try and fix it apply ?

I would probably veer towards the second. 

If there were hoards of present and past cycling individuals coming out saying it's going too far then I would agree it needs seriously looked at. However it seems so far to be a few individuals only. 

Not enough to rip apart something so successful ?

Russia...population 200million.

 

UK...population 60 million

 

Russia...drug cheats apparently.

 

Go look at the last 6 medal tables and tell me there's not something going on?

 

Athletes ate effectively being state sponsorored, via grants and lottery, try competing against that if you are from a poor country.

 

Might not be drug cheating but certainly financial doping 

 

The London Olympics had to be a Nazi style success and they were.

 

Cyclying has had a fortune spent on it...while people go to foodbanks.

Heard some basketball players on radio a couple years ago complaining because their state hand out was being cut and they'd need to get jobs.

Leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

 

P.s. its odd the the sports the UK have been succrsfull in are the ones that need millions spent on the "technology"... Cycling isn't successfully because of the athletes talents...its successful because of the clever people designing the equipment. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, The Masked Tulip said:

UK Media is full of people who treat the others they work with like dirt. Lots of people who are nice to camera can be complete sh*ts to the people they work with. The management of many Media organisations turn a blind eye to this. Some think it is normal as it has always been that way. Many of the staff who work in these organisations put up with it because they want to be on the greasey pole with ambitions of being the top dog themselves one day. You could say they are all as bad as each other.

I suspect that there is some of this in British Cycling.

 

 

I think there are broadly 3 types of individual,

1) Very talented, passionate and focused with no interest in ladder climbing; they are often difficult to manage but a good manager can get the best from them and lead a great team/organisation.

2) Less talented, less passionate and focused on ladder climbing; they make poor managers and while successful initially because they manage the above people, the organisation they lead eventually goes to pot as the talented 'see through them', get sacked or disenfranchised, or leave of free will.

3) Very talented, passionate and focused and will take on management reluctantly, if asked; they will be a good manager as they will understand and manage the passion that burns in the first type of persion

Type 2 seem to flourish in the UK, so we have cycles of boom and bust

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, LiveinHope said:

I think there are broadly 3 types of individual,

1) Very talented, passionate and focused with no interest in ladder climbing; they are often difficult to manage but a good manager can get the best from them and lead a great team/organisation.

2) Less talented, less passionate and focused on ladder climbing; they make poor managers and while successful initially because they manage the above people, the organisation they lead eventually goes to pot as the talented 'see through them', get sacked or disenfranchised, or leave of free will.

3) Very talented, passionate and focused and will take on management reluctantly, if asked; they will be a good manager as they will understand and manage the passion that burns in the first type of persion

Type 2 seem to flourish in the UK, so we have cycles of boom and bust

Yep - 100% agree.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The Knimbies who say No said:

somehow I knew this would be the OT reaction- treat people, especially women, like shit, it works! Yeah right. Apart from anything else it seems Varnish wasn't even the slowest rider when she was canned. Where was the results focus there?  Seems there was a culture of indifference towards women riders, and marking athletes as being difficult when eg asking questions during sessions, in a way which didn't occur with male athletes. These are huge flashing warning lights in my view.

I was also surprised to realise, that Nicole Cooke, one of the best road riders team GB has ever had is around 3 years younger than Wiggins. Seems like she has been gone for a long time. She was scathing about British Cycling. I'd suggest she might have views worth taking seriously.

We are after all talking about full time athletes on the programme. At least you ought to run it in line with the sort of treatment one might reasonably expect from any other decent employer. It's not difficult, just don't hire assholes or ignore issues which any other employer would take an interest in eg bullying, intimidation etc.

 

I doubt most people would say that having a tyrannical boss really made them try harder or enabled them to get the best out of themselves.

Is it just a women being treated badly thing ? What about the large number of ex British cycling women who have NOT come out to say how terrible it is ? They have nothing to lose now by doing that. 

Different people deal with being treated badly in different ways. Some just get on with it and accept it's part of life. Some want to tell the world about it.

I doubt British cycling is any different.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, ccc said:

Is it just a women being treated badly thing ? What about the large number of ex British cycling women who have NOT come out to say how terrible it is ? They have nothing to lose now by doing that. 

Different people deal with being treated badly in different ways. Some just get on with it and accept it's part of life. Some want to tell the world about it.

I doubt British cycling is any different.

Some people are passionate and some people are less so. For some people, at a particular moment in their lives, they may see nothing in their lives other than cycling and, if they also have talent, you need them. However, their passion can also make them outspoken if they are mismanaged, whereas others will walk away and be happy doing something else, perhaps with the attitude of 'your loss is my gain' so to speak.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, ccc said:

Not enough to rip apart something so successful ?

British Cycling's purpose as an organisation is to encourage people to take up cycling as a sport.  Obviously individual cyclists want to win and winning is a big part of encouraging people to consider taking up cycling as a sport, but if British Cycling's way of winning discourages people then it's failing in its purpose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Will! said:

British Cycling's purpose as an organisation is to encourage people to take up cycling as a sport.  Obviously individual cyclists want to win and winning is a big part of encouraging people to consider taking up cycling as a sport, but if British Cycling's way of winning discourages people then it's failing in its purpose.

They've encouraged me.

Ive just snorted another line of coke whilst in my jimjams.

I used to regard pro -athletics as daft and pointless.

You can add bent to that now.

Thee are more important thigns in life to do.

And, as far as health, cyclist seem to drop dead quicker than a Wegie smack head.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i'd guess a brutish regime goes with the territory. Competitive sport gets nasty even at local club level, just brings out the worst in people. At the top level i guess there are serious levels of psychosis going on. If we tamed it down we probably wouldn't compete on a global level. The worst example of a brutal regime was the Romanian girl gymnasts who reigned supreme in the 80s.

 

http://www.kimwillsher.com/the-little-girl-who-died-for-gold/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

Russia...population 200million.

 

UK...population 60 million

 

Russia...drug cheats apparently.

 

Go look at the last 6 medal tables and tell me there's not something going on?

 

Athletes ate effectively being state sponsorored, via grants and lottery, try competing against that if you are from a poor country.

 

Might not be drug cheating but certainly financial doping 

 

The London Olympics had to be a Nazi style success and they were.

 

Cyclying has had a fortune spent on it...while people go to foodbanks.

Heard some basketball players on radio a couple years ago complaining because their state hand out was being cut and they'd need to get jobs.

Leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Bradley Wiggins never mentioning his asthma in his biography, smoking cigarettes, yet needing a TUE for his "severe asthma" - always before a key race, not merely therapeutic..."can't remember what was in the mystery package"....etc. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lots of fantastically fit bodies in very tight lycra. I suspect that lot of nookie goes considering how many of the team have ended up in relationships/marrieds. Lots of tight bottoms and big thighs - and that is just the men.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, The Knimbies who say No said:

I doubt most people would say that having a tyrannical boss really made them try harder or enabled them to get the best out of themselves.

I don't qualify as most people but it worked for me. I guess it's because I need a problem or challenge in order to get fired up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cycling is a peculiar sport, the individuals who compete are often extremely driven to the point of obsession, this results in tension even within the best teams. Jealousy and bitterness also rear their heads in this heady mix of individuals. Throw in political correctness, equality, diversity and sport ends up like the characters in The Privilege Game.

Varnish was borderline before being dropped from the olympic team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't really see how Britain having a good cycling team helps me, obviously i am happy when they win, but it doesn't exactly change my life.

 

It would be better if that money were used to help us have a functioning economy.

 

Obviously i realise it is a drop in the ocean, but the UK wastes tax payers money on lots of unnecessary things, all these add up, and it is not then a drop in the ocean.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, canbuywontbuy said:

Bradley Wiggins never mentioning his asthma in his biography, smoking cigarettes, yet needing a TUE for his "severe asthma" - always before a key race, not merely therapeutic..."can't remember what was in the mystery package"....etc. 

Is Wiggins's going to be another Lance Armstrong?  All these sick notes to make him the best!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let a set of girlie men and/or feminist women run an inquiry into any kind of successful competitive organization and they'd find exactly the same thing. This is a non-story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, reddog said:

I don't really see how Britain having a good cycling team helps me, obviously i am happy when they win, but it doesn't exactly change my life.

 

It would be better if that money were used to help us have a functioning economy.

 

Obviously i realise it is a drop in the ocean, but the UK wastes tax payers money on lots of unnecessary things, all these add up, and it is not then a drop in the ocean.

I suggest you read up on how its funded, membership alone is something like 150,000 at an average of £40/year plus racing licence (if you are so inclined) another £40-80. Plus there is money from sponsorship, funding for this requires publicity and therefore success, funding from the Lottery/Government is a paltry £6m per year and is probably there for environmental/health/transport virtue signalling but is usually reported to give the false impression that it is the bulk.

You said yourself that it makes you happy when they win, which cost you effectively 10p, but there were 20 gold medals at the main event and a further 23 at the Paralympics.

So that is 0.04p per medal, but hey its 4 years between olympics so thats effecively 1p per medal.

Most people wouldn't bother to pick a penny up in the street, but as you say all these single pennies add up, at least success at the olympics in this respect is dirt cheap.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • The Prime Minister stated that there were three Brexit options available to the UK:   103 members have voted

    1. 1. Which of the Prime Minister's options would you choose?


      • Leave with the negotiated deal
      • Remain
      • Leave with no deal

    Please sign in or register to vote in this poll. View topic


×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.