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Public services meltdown: who is to blame?

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As per title.

police putting the public at risk

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39135300

four in five hospitals dangerous 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39071485

These are just two from today, but we get a drip feed of these every week, from ambulance services, to eduction, gp surgeries etc.

now, I've got my views on why it is all going Pete tong.  Funding has something to do with it, but it is not, in my view, the most significant reason.

discuss  

 

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As I keep saying, in my now 32+ years of experience in the NHS, expecting a service to do more activity year on year, while simultaneously making real funding cuts made the current scenario inevitable. 

Recruiting extra GPS in the 1980s should have been a red flag that we'd need to replace them 30 years later when they retire. 

More women starting medical school should have meant predicting more part time doctors, meaning less work done per medical graduate headcount in their working lives. 

 

Most of this was predictable. It was obvious to me at the time. Successive governments' short termism and the crash of 2008 have brought us to this. 

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1 minute ago, Bossybabe said:

As I keep saying, in my now 32+ years of experience in the NHS, expecting a service to do more activity year on year, while simultaneously making real funding cuts made the current scenario inevitable. 

Recruiting extra GPS in the 1980s should have been a red flag that we'd need to replace them 30 years later when they retire. 

More women starting medical school should have meant predicting more part time doctors, meaning less work done per medical graduate headcount in their working lives. 

 

Most of this was predictable. It was obvious to me at the time. Successive governments' short termism and the crash of 2008 have brought us to this. 

I agree, it is partly about planning, partly about funding, but I think there is more to it than that. 

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The NHS problem is that its got into a habit of providing a day cay centre for OAPs.

The hospital need to be sorte out - one, kicking out OAP who are no ill. According to a urse, non-ill OAPS are occupying well over 50% of their beds.

Next, they need to filter people coming into the hospital who are not nationals. Again, friend reckons getting on for 40% of in patients are non UK nationals. The Eu ones ned to be cornered and their home countries billed. The non EU need turning away. Any non EU nationals who turns up without medical insurance should be deproted. The NHS/UKGOV needs to play real hard ball.

This years there's been a nasty cold/flu thing that everyone I know has had for 4-5 weeks.

Police? Nothigns really changed. Just people are looking  and not liking waht they are finding. That could have happened any time. The polie are a really sh1t org.

 

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3 minutes ago, spyguy said:

The NHS problem is that its got into a habit of providing a day cay centre for OAPs.

The hospital need to be sorte out - one, kicking out OAP who are no ill. According to a urse, non-ill OAPS are occupying well over 50% of their beds.

Next, they need to filter people coming into the hospital who are not nationals. Again, friend reckons getting on for 40% of in patients are non UK nationals. The Eu ones ned to be cornered and their home countries billed. The non EU need turning away. Any non EU nationals who turns up without medical insurance should be deproted. The NHS/UKGOV needs to play real hard ball.

This years there's been a nasty cold/flu thing that everyone I know has had for 4-5 weeks.

Police? Nothigns really changed. Just people are looking  and not liking waht they are finding. That could have happened any time. The polie are a really sh1t org.

 

Those non ill people are turned out...I see it every week...people sent home at age 70 plus to homes that cant cope with them freshly out, because they are alone, or their relatives who are also aged who cant help them out of chairs, dress them, whatever.  They arent ill, but they are debilitated and need help.  Care plans not in place, needed equipment taking weeks to deliver.

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Just now, Bloo Loo said:

Those non ill people are turned out...I see it every week...people sent home at age 70 plus to homes that cant cope with them freshly out, because they are alone, or their relatives who are also aged who cant help them out of chairs, dress them, whatever.  They arent ill, but they are debilitated and need help.  Care plans not in place, needed equipment taking weeks to deliver.

Well ... not in all cases.

In friend hospital, they accomodate them until it gets critical.  Thats a stupid idea that should not happen. They should be removed ASAP. Start billing someone - council,family.

Acute hospital are that - short term illnessness.

OAP/respite homes are more suitable.

Again, back to Brown. He spent the next 20 health budget on hospitals without checking what was needed.

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13 minutes ago, Bossybabe said:

As I keep saying, in my now 32+ years of experience in the NHS, expecting a service to do more activity year on year, while simultaneously making real funding cuts made the current scenario inevitable. 

Recruiting extra GPS in the 1980s should have been a red flag that we'd need to replace them 30 years later when they retire. 

More women starting medical school should have meant predicting more part time doctors, meaning less work done per medical graduate headcount in their working lives. 

 

Most of this was predictable. It was obvious to me at the time. Successive governments' short termism and the crash of 2008 have brought us to this. 

Politicians work on 5 year electoral time scales so never plan beyond those dates

Long term strategy used to be developed by the senior Civil Service but many of them are now shipped in from the Private Sector on 3 year contracts years so are even less concerned than MPs about the long term consequences of their actions.

The net results are inevitable.

Britain has the lot of the hall marks of a failing state.

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1 minute ago, spyguy said:

Well ... not in all cases.

In friend hospital, they accomodate them until it gets critical.  Thats a stupid idea that should not happen. They should be removed ASAP. Start billing someone - council,family.

Acute hospital are that - short term illnessness.

OAP/respite homes are more suitable.

Again, back to Brown. He spent the next 20 health budget on hospitals without checking what was needed.

I agree, not in all cases...the ward I worked in was, as you said, about 50% full of people waiting to leave..that was a year ago...but also, they ARE being sent out to inadequate accomodation way before it is ready.  It is this next part that is holding things up, but it is hidden from view behind doors of the very streets we live in.

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Who is to blame? The Staff 

In short the quality has gone downhill, graduates with a heightened sense of importance thinking they should be a consultant almost straight away, wanting the big money and reduced hours with a cosy office base,

same with the police they like to hide away in offices and attend breifings then hide away in cars if they do have to go out on the street, they think they are above foot patrolling, and this is work for a lesser PCSO. (again heightend sense of over importance) the police dont even question their own suspects anymore they have civillian interviewers to do that for them. 

It is the mindset of these people that is wrong, they think they are entitled to the big money straight away because they were fed the university bull about getting a high paid job and also come with a sense of entitlement that paying £30k + for their degree has given them. 

There is not a funding problem

In the NHS scavenging IT contrators rip the organisation off for work

In the emergency services 4 or 5 vehicles will turn up to one minor incident and then see if they can get the air ambulance in too this is because these organisations have become bloated with staff and do not have the work to justify all the budget funding being given to them.

In short eveybody is leeching off the taxpayer budget and nobody wants to do the work it is a staff problem and attitude problem.

(and everybody has got their eye on an early retirement compo payout) 

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I suppose we're also approaching the budget, so all the departments have to go on about how tough things are.

(not suggesting that there isn't a problem, just that they'll be pushing lots to the press right now)

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Lots of reasons.....One is borrowing the future to spend today. PFI. Little or the wrong investment in forward planning including training and future capacity requirements.....Pension promises and pensions promised being paid today...Many qualified professionals working part-time to also work privately or only working part-time because they are better off financially with a better work-life balance (the mortgage is now in the bag).

More highly trained teachers professors no longer teaching but working for big blue chip cos doing research to help create new products  and services that will be expensive to purchase.

With the NHS it is such a big animal that money is leaking out all over the place almost impossible to manage as a whole....but it provides so much work/wages/income to not only those who directly work for it, or used to work for it but all kinds of private businesses that would go bust if not for it......a huge part of our economy, putting food in mouths and giving shelter to so many people both directly and indirectly...

Ambulance chasers, legal compensation and payoff payments must also have a big impact on where the money is spent.

Sometimes I think public sector workers on the front line like, doctors, nurses, teachers and prison officers etc should be more valued by their employer because the public do value them, but sometimes that is not enough, they can see how things could be improved but are helpless to do anything about it........;)

 

Sometimes with many things today, you wonder if things are run for the certain people working for it, or will make from it, and not for the customers they work for.

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The decision to offer great pensions in the 80s rather than better pay at the time is now coming back to bite. The accumulated debt, the ever increasing insurance burden, the huge legal costs of dealing with chancers.

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I asked a couple of nurses who drank in my pub ten years ago when they announced they were taking early retirement what the problem with recruiting nurses was, they simply said it wasnt the money -simply that young people do not want to work nights. We have engineering courses that students graduate straight into well paid jobs but not home students only overseas ones - UK born people don't want to be engineers either even thought our national grid (for example) is falling to pieces. Life's too easy and also young british people are being fed a diet of underachievement is the natural way of things.

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Idiots, disinterested and unaccountable people in charge,

Too many chiefs earning too much for the work they are willing to do

Patronage and nepotism in appointments

People that have no work experience either outside the public sector or outside being an employee

IT and much of the bureaucracy it enables

Greedy people,

Entitled people,

Cost of living

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1 hour ago, spyguy said:

The NHS problem is that its got into a habit of providing a day cay centre for OAPs.

The hospital need to be sorte out - one, kicking out OAP who are no ill. According to a urse, non-ill OAPS are occupying well over 50% of their beds.

Next, they need to filter people coming into the hospital who are not nationals. Again, friend reckons getting on for 40% of in patients are non UK nationals. The Eu ones ned to be cornered and their home countries billed. The non EU need turning away. Any non EU nationals who turns up without medical insurance should be deproted. The NHS/UKGOV needs to play real hard ball.

This years there's been a nasty cold/flu thing that everyone I know has had for 4-5 weeks.

Police? Nothigns really changed. Just people are looking  and not liking waht they are finding. That could have happened any time. The polie are a really sh1t org.

 

And pensions.
They're all too high.
 

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2 minutes ago, SarahBell said:

And pensions.
They're all too high.
 

Well, possibly the problem is that everyone* gets too much money, apart from the people who should be getting it**.

It'll all collapse at some point.

* eg, BTL chancers, most of the retired, senior management in public service, the entire financial sector.

** eg, export focused manufacturing

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Just now, dgul said:

Well, possibly the problem is that everyone* gets too much money, apart from the people who should be getting it**.

It'll all collapse at some point.

* eg, BTL chancers, most of the retired, senior management in public service, the entire financial sector.

** eg, export focused manufacturing

We'd solve the NHS problem after a few months of people having no money> They'd either starve to death or starve a bit and be a lot healthier.
 

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21 minutes ago, SarahBell said:

And pensions.
They're all too high.
 

Coppers pensions are stupidly generous. Or were.

A WPC pension would require about 40% of her salary to be setaside for each year she worked.

Fire service similar.

 

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17 minutes ago, SarahBell said:

We'd solve the NHS problem after a few months of people having no money> They'd either starve to death or starve a bit and be a lot healthier.
 

The number of morbidly obsese -and I mean Mumu sized - at the local hospital i shocking. And that includes some of the people who work there.

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The fire service did themselves out of a job in the nineties by being really efficient at educating the public about house fires and smoke alarms etc 

Now they are forced to send multiple appliances to a small incident in another borough to justify keeping their stations equipment & staff budget. 

You very rarely see fire engines racing on blues & twos these days mostly just ambulances and cop cars. 

Needs a good shake up and more centralisation of assets IMO 

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Obvious problem is that by bailing out the bankers, all the money is now gone. The entire system is due to collapse anyway.

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50 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

I asked a couple of nurses who drank in my pub ten years ago when they announced they were taking early retirement what the problem with recruiting nurses was, they simply said it wasnt the money -simply that young people do not want to work nights. We have engineering courses that students graduate straight into well paid jobs but not home students only overseas ones - UK born people don't want to be engineers either even thought our national grid (for example) is falling to pieces. Life's too easy and also young british people are being fed a diet of underachievement is the natural way of things.

I do sometimes wonder why there isn't an incentive to do more useful degrees like engineering - lower fees, perhaps,  compared to softer subjects, and particularly the likes of media studies, etc.  

There is so much talk of a 'skills shortage' but for years the only official answer ever seems to have been to import workers.  

We shouldn't have a skills shortage at all.  

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1 hour ago, spyguy said:

Next, they need to filter people coming into the hospital who are not nationals. Again, friend reckons getting on for 40% of in patients are non UK nationals. The Eu ones ned to be cornered and their home countries billed. The non EU need turning away. Any non EU nationals who turns up without medical insurance should be deproted. The NHS/UKGOV needs to play real hard ball.

This.

This is vitally important. Once we've done this we can then ascertain exactly what the cost of the NHS for British citizens actually is.

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Clearly, it's the immigrants innit.

(Alternative fake news version for anyone who might have more than two braincells to rub together... )

Quote

"That’s the standard technique of privatization: defund, make sure things don’t work, people get angry, you hand it over to private capital." - Noam Chomsky

 

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