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whitevanman

Home security system

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Has anyone fitted their own? There's a bewildering variety of options available. I don't want the bulglars to wander in and nick the harddrive containing images of their ugly mugs. I think that means I need dedicated cloud storage which will need a subscription. 

Failing that I'm going to lay beartraps around the house.

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I have a Canary for inside and 2 Ring.com CCTV cameras outside, with subscriptions. It's all stored in the cloud as standard.

Found it much easier than going down the HDD route and storing it all there etc.

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For casual use (holidays etc), I've got a set of cheap IP cameras with a 'email on motion' function.  I then set them up with a free gmail account.    Works well enough.  

I've also got a permanent setup at the office -- that is on permanently (so records lots), and saves to a file server hidden away in a loft space.  

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Burglars generally go for easy targets, a (genuinely convincing) dummy box with flashing lights will probably get you 80% of the way, look for weak spots and improve security generally too, decent locks etc.

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8 minutes ago, onlyme2 said:

Burglars generally go for easy targets, a (genuinely convincing) dummy box with flashing lights will probably get you 80% of the way, look for weak spots and improve security generally too, decent locks etc.

Locks don't do any good when they are willing to smash windows.

I want the deterent of them knowing they are on film. If they ignore the cameras then I need decent images saved to the cloud. 

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17 minutes ago, onlyme2 said:

Burglars generally go for easy targets, a (genuinely convincing) dummy box with flashing lights will probably get you 80% of the way, look for weak spots and improve security generally too, decent locks etc.

Crims know what dummy alarm boxes and cameras look like.  For a start, the real thing seldom have flashing lights.

For alarm boxes you'd be better off buying a genuine alarm extension box -- only a bit more expensive than a dummy one.  But you might as well get a cheap real wireless job -- they're a bit rubbish, but will at least work.  Even if you didn't bother wiring up the sensors, the box would look like the real thing.

For cameras -- a few years ago crims started to drive around using a smartphone camera to look for the glow from infra-red lamps that come with camera installations -- those are the houses they'd avoid.  If you wanted to you could wire up a few IR floods (they're cheap enough) as the deterrent -- but it would only be fractionally more expensive to use actual cameras with IR lighting.

 

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We had a house where the old owners had full alarm system in.  The monthly fees were huge.  We did not take it up, but had the benefit of the boxes remaining on the outside and a BEEP BEEP whenever a door or window was opened/breached.  Just that there was no alert to a monitoring hub.

My thinking was that a burglar who heard that on break in would not know that there had not been an auto call to the police.  or was I being stupid in assuming that that would be a deterrent?

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1 hour ago, whitevanman said:

Locks don't do any good when they are willing to smash windows.

I want the deterent of them knowing they are on film. If they ignore the cameras then I need decent images saved to the cloud. 

A few things to note. Burglars come in 2 types generally: either those looking for an open window/weak shed, or a professional burglar looking to hold you at knifepoint. The latter is pretty much impossible to deter, unless you get a panic room, hence even why the richest people get robbed. So you just need to look at the statistics for the first type, and try your best to deter them, and not worry about the 2nd. I recently beefed up my home security and spent quite a bit of time researching, speaking to a police officer friend, etc:

1. Secure your shed and gates, by using a decent hasp lock and fat padlock. Put chicken wire of the windows and privacy film, and get Torx style screws so that things can't be unscrewed easily. About 80% of break-ins by some estimates are sheds.... If your shed isn't protected then the house probably won't be either.

2. Very few burglars will break windows and risk creating noise and/or getting DNA onto the smashed glass. 65% of burglaries I believe are by kicking in the front door, then after that, patio doors. Secure those by getting a London Bar if you've got the right type of door, and make sure you get non-removable pins if your brackets are external, so that the door can't just be lifted off its hinges. If you have a window on the front door, reinforce it or make it smaller (new doors are £££ though).

3. CCTV and indeed CCTV stickers and a Beware Of The Dog sign are good deterrents. A fake alarm is so easy to spot to someone who spends all their time looking, so get the real thing if you're that bothered. A Yale DIY alarm (£150) is way better than a fake one.

4. Take photos of your nickable items, many greedy insurers won't pay out without proof of what has been pinched. SAD!

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30 minutes ago, wherebee said:

We had a house where the old owners had full alarm system in.  The monthly fees were huge.  We did not take it up, but had the benefit of the boxes remaining on the outside and a BEEP BEEP whenever a door or window was opened/breached.  Just that there was no alert to a monitoring hub.

My thinking was that a burglar who heard that on break in would not know that there had not been an auto call to the police.  or was I being stupid in assuming that that would be a deterrent?

How huge? I pay £30 a month for Redcare as I have no near neighbours and it's worth it for the peace of mind. £360 a year is worth every penny to hopefully not have some druggie/pikey ransacking my house , being unable to sleep and making me want to move for the next 6 months.

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Thanks

4 minutes ago, spunko2010 said:

A few things to note. Burglars come in 2 types generally: either those looking for an open window/weak shed, or a professional burglar looking to hold you at knifepoint. The latter is pretty much impossible to deter, unless you get a panic room, hence even why the richest people get robbed. So you just need to look at the statistics for the first type, and try your best to deter them, and not worry about the 2nd. I recently beefed up my home security and spent quite a bit of time researching, speaking to a police officer friend, etc:

1. Secure your shed and gates, by using a decent hasp lock and fat padlock. Put chicken wire of the windows and privacy film, and get Torx style screws so that things can't be unscrewed easily.

2. Very few burglars will break windows and risk creating noise and/or getting DNA onto the smashed glass. 65% of burglaries I believe are by kicking in the front door, then after that, patio doors. Secure those by getting a London Bar if you've got the right type of door, and make sure you get non-removable pins if your brackets are external, so that the door can't just be lifted off its hinges. If you have a window on the front door, reinforce it or make it smaller (new doors are £££ though).

3. CCTV and indeed CCTV stickers and a Beware Of The Dog sign are good deterrents. A fake alarm is so easy to spot to someone who spends all their time looking, so get the real thing if you're that bothered. A Yale DIY alarm (£150) is way better than a fake one.

Thanks, I relish the idea of someone coming into the house at night. I would be ready for them. I have dogs, in fact, I'm quite sure that they have dissuaded multiple break-ins in the past.

1. The shed is impossible to secure, it's made of flimsy wood. Don't leave valuables in there or expect them to be stolen.

2. Our burglary was through two sets of doors. Toughened glass breaks quietly. I'm considering replacing with plate glass even if it is against building regs. Once inside burglars can search every inch of a typical house in less than 15 minutes.

3. I'll be getting real CCTV and alarm. It is not that expensive. It's just a question of finding something that's reliable, unobtrusive and easy to use.

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12 minutes ago, whitevanman said:

Thanks

Thanks, I relish the idea of someone coming into the house at night. I would be ready for them. I have dogs, in fact, I'm quite sure that they have dissuaded multiple break-ins in the past.

1. The shed is impossible to secure, it's made of flimsy wood. Don't leave valuables in there or expect them to be stolen.

2. Our burglary was through two sets of doors. Toughened glass breaks quietly. I'm considering replacing with plate glass even if it is against building regs. Once inside burglars can search every inch of a typical house in less than 15 minutes.

3. I'll be getting real CCTV and alarm. It is not that expensive. It's just a question of finding something that's reliable, unobtrusive and easy to use.

The other thing about toughened glass is that it is less likely to catch the thief's DNA, versus conventional glass, so it's a mixed blessing. Is it better to have a would-be thief spend 2 minutes smashing the glass and making loads of noise, or have them whack it in in an instant and *hope* they leave some DNA - which the police may eventually bother to obtain, if they even turn up to investigate, that is....?

The same with CCTV, if you do catch someone on film afterwards how likely is it that it'll lead to getting your stuff back? Not very.

it sounds to me like you're approaching it from the afterward rather than before; there is no right or wrong way of doing it but I prefer to try to deter them at any cost BEFORE they get in. If you had an alarm or even a Canary device they wouldn't have had 15 minutes, only a few seconds. Also consider 'Nest' alarms, they only do internal AFAIK in the UK but their external one is out in the USA so will be here shortly. I'd consider covering the shed with an extra CCTV unit if you can, or the garage, etc. Thieves love outbuildings. If they want to get through 2 locks, and some CCTV to get into my garage, they'll come up against a ground anchor securing my lawn mower in place, I almost want to invite a thief to try it.. :D

Also don't underestimate spiky plants. I've got Berberies and Hawthorn by all my ground floor windows, it's a ******* if you catch yourself on it.

In terms of alarms, ADT aren't bad but I went with a local installer as ADT's afterservice is apparently poor and thieves know that a lot of ADT alarms aren't under contract. I forget the statistic. With a local 'unknown' company it adds an extra layer of unfamiliarity. Would you get police response?
 

Edit: One other thing, Ring.com do a CCTV doorbell. Most thieves knock on the door first to see who is in, if they are knowingly face-to-face with a CCTV camera they might think again...

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16 minutes ago, spunko2010 said:

The other thing about toughened glass is that it is less likely to catch the thief's DNA, versus conventional glass, so it's a mixed blessing. Is it better to have a would-be thief spend 2 minutes smashing the glass and making loads of noise, or have them whack it in in an instant and *hope* they leave some DNA - which the police may eventually bother to obtain, if they even turn up to investigate, that is....?

The same with CCTV, if you do catch someone on film afterwards how likely is it that it'll lead to getting your stuff back? Not very.

it sounds to me like you're approaching it from the afterward rather than before; there is no right or wrong way of doing it but I prefer to try to deter them at any cost BEFORE they get in. If you had an alarm or even a Canary device they wouldn't have had 15 minutes, only a few seconds. Also consider 'Nest' alarms, they only do internal AFAIK in the UK but their external one is out in the USA so will be here shortly.

In terms of alarms, ADT aren't bad but I went with a local installer as ADT's afterservice is apparently poor and thieves know that a lot of ADT alarms aren't under contract. I forget the statistic. With a local 'unknown' company it adds an extra layer of unfamiliarity. Would you get police response?
 

The only benefit of toughened glass is that it breaks safely. That's why it is mandated for use in low windows and doors. Thieves are aware of this.

I'm hoping that visible cameras and an alarm will be enough of a deterrent in future. You are right that thieves generally leave if an alarm sounds. I'm not sure that security response makes much difference, they're unlikely to get there quick enough and they're not likely to take on a load of diseased skagheads anyway.

Edit: In leaning towards the Netgear Arlo Pro. Remote wireless cameras, cloud storage and an alarm in one system.

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Just accept that sooner or later you will be burgled. Ensure that your most valuable things (photographs) are backed up in the cloud. Nothing else really matters. They can't steal memories and experiences.

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On 2/26/2017 at 7:30 PM, whitevanman said:

I don't want the bulglars to wander in and nick the harddrive

I think you might get some Romanians or Bulgarians, but you probably won't see much Bulglars!

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Stuff is just that, and the insurance should cover it.  Items of sentimental value should be effectively concealed, and there are numerous ways to do that.  What is of much greater significance is the personal safety of the occupants. What steps can you, and have you taken to protect yourself if one or more bad guys force their way in (as happened to a couple this week) or your wake up to find them in your home?  Simon Cowell was apparently robbed of £1m while the family slept.  Even with what must have been good security, they still got in!

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1 minute ago, Alba said:

Stuff is just that, and the insurance should cover it.  Items of sentimental value should be effectively concealed, and there are numerous ways to do that.  What is of much greater significance is the personal safety of the occupants. What steps can you, and have you taken to protect yourself if one or more bad guys force their way in (as happened to a couple this week) or your wake up to find them in your home?  Simon Cowell was apparently robbed of £1m while the family slept.  Even with what must have been good security, they still got in!

I look poor and the burglars will have had that confirmed on their tour of the premises. It's mostly the invasion of privacy that bothers me. I'm not worried about my safety. After this I want to move, it's not as peaceful around here as I thought. My mother had three burglaries in a row and she never felt at ease again. Sod that, I'll go elsewhere. In the meantime I'll put some  better security in place.

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40 minutes ago, whitevanman said:

I look poor and the burglars will have had that confirmed on their tour of the premises. It's mostly the invasion of privacy that bothers me. I'm not worried about my safety. After this I want to move, it's not as peaceful around here as I thought. My mother had three burglaries in a row and she never felt at ease again. Sod that, I'll go elsewhere. In the meantime I'll put some  better security in place.

I can understand your feelings over your invasion of privacy.  It happened to a friend and he immediately put his house on the market, as he was so shaken by it.

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I can't imagine any HPC-er would have anything worth stealing.-_-

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3 hours ago, whitevanman said:

I look poor and the burglars will have had that confirmed on their tour of the premises. It's mostly the invasion of privacy that bothers me. I'm not worried about my safety. After this I want to move, it's not as peaceful around here as I thought. My mother had three burglaries in a row and she never felt at ease again. Sod that, I'll go elsewhere. In the meantime I'll put some  better security in place.

We did move, but not because of the burglary. It wasn't until we had moved that my son told me how much the burglary had affected him (and it was the house he had been born into 13 years previously)  Bastards.

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