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Economists Concerned Trump Administration Will Adopt 'Alternative' Economic Facts

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Economists Concerned Trump Administration Will Adopt 'Alternative' Economic Facts

University of Oregon professor Mark Thoma is even worried that the Trump administration will turn to "fake data" or "alternative facts" should the economy turn south over the next four years.

 
“The worst thing he could do -- and I see this as a real danger -- would be to politicize the agencies that produce government economic data, to put people in place that will skew the numbers in his favor,” Thoma said in a Jan. 24 commentary for CBS MoneyWatch. “If that happens, the data will be useless, and we’ll essentially be flying blind when it comes to the true state of the economy.”

 

 
Since when did economic theory depend on empirical data? Entire mind palaces of 'trickle down economics' and ' rickardian equivalence' ect have been constructed by Economists in the complete absence of any hard data backing up their validity - not to mention the fact that statistics abuse has been practiced by every US administration in living memory.
 
But suddenly-after decades of indifference- the people that regularly award themselves fake nobel pizes are worried about the creation of fake of economic statistics?
 
The truth is that the election of Donald Trump seems to have 'triggered' the entire liberal establishment into some kind of collective nervous breakdown causing them to spasmodically lash out whenever his name is mentioned in virtually any context.
 
The real danger here is that if-or more likely- when- Trump actually does something really dangerous- the credibilty of the media, the academics and entire liberal elite will be catastophically undermined to the point that any warning they might then issue will probably be ingnored as just more hysterical overreaction.
 
The media et al need to get a grip or they will burn through whatever dwindling capital they have left in terms of their claims to be objective observers of events rather than self interested participants in those events.
 
Trump has correctly identified the fact that millions of people in the US-and probably world wide- now believe that the Mainstream Media and the 'expert' establishment of academics are cheerleaders for the ruling elite-and by constantly putting out these  paranoid fantasies about their fears as to what Trump might do or might represent these actors are reinforcing this belief by appearing to harbour an irrational opposition based on bias rather than objective opinions based on reality.
 
In a recent talk given by rolling stone's Matt Taibbi he makes the observation that what allowed Trump to become president was a decades long erosion of the reputations of those entites that might once have been able to hold him to account- the perception that the mainstream media and the establishment in general are corrupt and out of touch was not created by Donald Trump- he was simply the first to exploit this perception for his own ends.
 
It's ironic that a weapon fashioned to bring Trump to heel- the creation of 'fake news' as a meme- has been most effectively wielded by Trump himself- but what the increasingly hysterical media need to understand is the reason this weapon has proved to be so treacherously double edged is because there is some truth to his claim of media bias when it comes to Trump himself. Untill the Media come clean about this unpalatable truth their credibility will remain in doubt.
Edited by wonderpup

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“If that happens, the data will be useless, and we’ll essentially be flying blind when it comes to the true state of the economy.”

 

 

Quite an admission of the consequences of having skewed data - as some would say that's exactly what the UK has been suffering from  for some time now.  Skewed data and spun and twisted interpretations of that data.  One example is the inflation indices.

Indeed it's been a Mr Magoo economy and is there much evidence that the US economy hasn't been suffering from the same sort of problem for a similar length of time.

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Who needs spooks and expensive intelligence agencies when you've got Trump wagging the dog and spinning his own reality via twitter and Ceausescu-eque rants from his pulpit?

He's giving the boffins and spin-doctors over at the CIA a good run for their money.

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Who needs spooks and expensive intelligence agencies when you've got Trump wagging the dog and spinning his own reality via twitter and Ceausescu-eque rants from his pulpit?

He's giving the boffins and spin-doctors over at the CIA a good run for their money.

The point is that he can only wag that dog because it's now toothless. Trump figured out that the mainstream media and the establishment they claim to police were one and the same thing in the minds of his supporters.

This is a non trivial insight because the ability of the fourth estate to place a limit on political power is derived from it's claim to be objective and non partisan- but if this claim is seen to be false then the watchdog of media scrutiny becomes- as I said- toothless- because no matter what it reports many will not believe those reports to be true.

Trump is in fact the self inflicted wound of a corrupt establishment that believed that it was beyond the reach of any democratic control due to the all encompassing nature of it's corruption- the cosy solar system in which all parties both political and media followed predicitable and mutually reinforcing orbits has been stuck by a meteor emerging from some dark region of political space long since dismissed as an irrelevant void.

I fear the damage this impact might cause, but it's impossible not take some pleasure in the wails of anguish now emanating from the media and it's political confederates.

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7 hours ago, wonderpup said:

The point is that he can only wag that dog because it's now toothless. Trump figured out that the mainstream media and the establishment they claim to police were one and the same thing in the minds of his supporters.

This is a non trivial insight because the ability of the fourth estate to place a limit on political power is derived from it's claim to be objective and non partisan- but if this claim is seen to be false then the watchdog of media scrutiny becomes- as I said- toothless- because no matter what it reports many will not believe those reports to be true.

Trump is in fact the self inflicted wound of a corrupt establishment that believed that it was beyond the reach of any democratic control due to the all encompassing nature of it's corruption- the cosy solar system in which all parties both political and media followed predicitable and mutually reinforcing orbits has been stuck by a meteor emerging from some dark region of political space long since dismissed as an irrelevant void.

I fear the damage this impact might cause, but it's impossible not take some pleasure in the wails of anguish now emanating from the media and it's political confederates.

Analogy gold!

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12 hours ago, wonderpup said:

Economists Concerned Trump Administration Will Adopt 'Alternative' Economic Facts

 

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Kellyanne Conway blasted by the president of her alma mater


Feb 19th 2017

Kellyanne Conway has been called out by the president of her alma mater, Trinity Washington University, in a recent school blog post titled, "On Lies and the Truths We Must Tell."

In the piece, Patricia McGuire states that "Presidential Counselor Kellyanne Conway, Trinity Class of 1989, has played a large role in facilitating the manipulation of facts and encouraging the grave injustice being perpetrated by the Trump Administration's war on immigrants among many other issues."

She goes on to point out, "Ms. Conway invented the now-infamous phrase 'alternative facts' to defend Trump's claims about the size of crowds at his inauguration, a thinly-veiled autocratic scheme..."

Source = some news feed I was looking at the other day, when logging into an email account I use for ebay.

Edited by Venger

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9 hours ago, cashinmattress said:

Who needs spooks and expensive intelligence agencies when you've got Trump wagging the dog and spinning his own reality via twitter and Ceausescu-eque rants from his pulpit?

He's giving the boffins and spin-doctors over at the CIA a good run for their money.

Yes, he's just like Ceaucescu. No exaggeration there whatsoever.......

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39 minutes ago, Venger said:

 

Source = some news feed I was looking at the other day, when logging into an email account I use for ebay.

Another non-story.

 

People enjoy different facts during every  debate ever undertaken. 

 

If one engages in rebuttal then one will employ alternative facts. Alternative in that they support a different conclusion.

 

As to the size of the crowds at the inauguration, that this was even raised by the media highlights their bias.

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23 minutes ago, WinstonSmith said:

Another non-story.

 

As to the size of the crowds at the inauguration, that this was even raised by the media highlights their bias.

It was a big thing for the media, they were still on about trump losing the popular vote, the fact that Hildog's troops were being assembled to disrupt the inauguration and shut down access would have put off many; so for the media that wanted to spin the inauguration as a flop, crowd size mattered, a lot.

 

 

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42 minutes ago, WinstonSmith said:

Another non-story.

 

People enjoy different facts during every  debate ever undertaken. 

 

If one engages in rebuttal then one will employ alternative facts. Alternative in that they support a different conclusion.

 

As to the size of the crowds at the inauguration, that this was even raised by the media highlights their bias.

I think the difference is in how blunt and obvious Trump is with his lies. He comes out and says things which are identifiably untrue, brazenly. That it has seemingly no consequence shows how tired the populace is with politics and with politicians. They are expected to lie, and so when Trump does just that, when he states facts which have no basis on reality then nobody cares.

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She goes on to point out, "Ms. Conway invented the now-infamous phrase 'alternative facts'

 What else does the mainstream media and Politics itself feed on if not competing versions of the truth? It's disingenous to pretend that Conway was doing anything more than making the point that the version of reality as presented by the Media is only one interpretation of reality- and that she would present another-differing- interpretation.

She would only have been wrong if it were accurate to say that the Media has no bias in it's reporting- but nobody really believes this except as a useful fiction adopted to lend weight to whichever version of 'the facts' best suit your purpose.

But the real problem here seems to be that the Liberal elite have come to believe that any world view that differs radically from their own is by defnintion false and probably evil.

In particular they have zero tolorance for anyone they feel is not as tolorant as they believe they are- a mind f*ck that is all more amusing because they seem unaware of the irony involved in demonizing people on the basis that you oppose the idea of people being demonized.

How exactly does labeling millions of people as 'deplorables' or 'racists' differ from any other form of arbitrary discrimination?

Edited by wonderpup

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I suppose the question is: do you prefer the obvious lies of a six year old child to the subtle lies of a dodgy timeshare salesman?

Politician: Normalised GDP has increased 1.3% this quarter due to our fiscal rebalancing scheme.  

Trump: My dad's a space astronaut and he was in Bonanza.

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On ‎20‎/‎02‎/‎2017 at 6:22 PM, wonderpup said:

 

 
Since when did economic theory depend on empirical data? Entire mind palaces of 'trickle down economics' and ' rickardian equivalence' ect have been constructed by Economists in the complete absence of any hard data backing up their validity - not to mention the fact that statistics abuse has been practiced by every US administration in living memory.
 
But suddenly-after decades of indifference- the people that regularly award themselves fake nobel pizes are worried about the creation of fake of economic statistics?
 
The truth is that the election of Donald Trump seems to have 'triggered' the entire liberal establishment
 

Mark Thoma is an econometrician. Econometrics depends on empirical data. He is right to worry about data being manipulated, but he can only speculate about whether Trump is more likely than others to have a hand in manipulating data.


Is the economics establishment part of the liberal establishment (Stiglitz, Krugman, Akerlof, Yellen etc.) or the neoliberal establishment (Friedman's heirs - Barro, Lucas, Sargent etc.)? The liberal economists are strongly opposed to the tax cuts Trump has promised (trickle down economics*) and the neoliberal economists are strongly opposed to his mercantilist (zero-sum) view of trade.


*They would point to hard data of this not working previously and it being a figment of someone's mind palace

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TPTB and MSM are running scared.

 

Heard talk sport on way home discussing trump playing golf with some Irish bloke , news they got off twitter, saying twitter was fake news...and backhandedly having a pop at trump.

 

I think the msm have realised their b.s. is no longer believed/wanted anymore = out of a job.

 

They soung as ANGRY as a London cabbie in the sat nav section of halfords.

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8 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

TPTB and MSM are running scared.

 

Heard talk sport on way home discussing trump playing golf with some Irish bloke , news they got off twitter, saying twitter was fake news...and backhandedly having a pop at trump.

 

I think the msm have realised their b.s. is no longer believed/wanted anymore = out of a job.

 

They soung as ANGRY as a London cabbie in the sat nav section of halfords.

All the radio channels are up to it.  Lbc last night, I usually listen to it as it puts me to sleep. Not last night, it was pop after pop.  I had to switch it off. 

Why do they think that it is appropriate to discuss trump on a sports programme?

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Talksport commentators regularly make claims like the premiership is the best footie league in the world as if that isn't Fake News.

Edited by billybong

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That's another reason why Trump was elected - to take a more positive attitude to the issue of reversing offshoring jobs rather than actively encouraging it with little opposition from the Swindle News and the Fake News outlets aka MSM.

Of course it's always been possible that the next US Presidential election will be the really crucial one depending on what happens over the next few years. 

Edited by billybong

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9 hours ago, billybong said:

Talksport commentators regularly make claims like the premiership is the best footie league in the world as if that isn't Fake News.

And at least 1 of them pushes the meme of you cant loose on Bricks and mortar.  I suspect they are up to their necks in London pwopatee

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