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Tony Blair: It's time to rise up.


TheCountOfNowhere
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11 hours ago, One-percent said:

Left winger? Tony Bliar?  

He is accused quite rightly of a lot of things but in no sense can he be seen as left wing.  

really?

all powerful state micromanaging peoples lives?

the philosophy that the needs of the state/collective outweigh the rights of the individual?

it's textbook national socialism.of the moseley variety.

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9 minutes ago, DarkHorseWaits-NoMore said:

Hmm beware...

Hillary would make his father Tony turn in his grave after watching his intervention to get our 12 little planes bombing targets that deamed to stray into Syria, you would think we were getting into WWII against the Nazi's the way he went on.

we are!, and the nazis are embedded in our own corridors of power.

the mad mullahs are just a useful idiot cannon fodder brigade to cause internal strife,so the embeds can magically come up with a solution to all our problems..which is a dramatic increase in surveillance and a hellspawn hybrid of communism and fascism after said imported threat has been miraculously dealt with.

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20 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Despite his ott leftism, Tonys refexwere still upper class - benevolent squire, but still needed hus peasant.

My nan thought he was a 5th columnist for the upper class. I dont think she was entirely wrong.

hillary has been exposed to genuinee struggle, so is actually a good labour mp. Hed make a goodlabour leader but, as the loons concluded, the uk wanted a more left wing labour..... as corbyns ratings fall below the green party.

Ive spoken to him a couple of times. Heswell aware what a disaster the welfare state, in its unlimited for, has ben for people.

Fair enough on Hillary, I'm only going by what I see on the tv and have not met him in person 

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8 minutes ago, oracle said:

really?

all powerful state micromanaging peoples lives?

the philosophy that the needs of the state/collective outweigh the rights of the individual?

it's textbook national socialism.of the moseley variety.

This.

Plus the extra housing poor in his houses and using tax payers to fund wifes makework schemes.

Theres a rotten layer in the public sector /payroll. Needs gutting.

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7 minutes ago, oracle said:

really?

all powerful state micromanaging peoples lives?

the philosophy that the needs of the state/collective outweigh the rights of the individual?

it's textbook national socialism.of the moseley variety.

Hi policies though and the way in which he sold the working class down the river would have made thatcher proud. In no sense was he left wing in the things he implemented. Micromanagement yes, but this is not limited to the left. John major introduced ofsted for example, the princes of micromanagement 

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7 minutes ago, oracle said:

we are!, and the nazis are embedded in our own corridors of power.

the mad mullahs are just a useful idiot cannon fodder brigade to cause internal strife,so the embeds can magically come up with a solution to all our problems..which is a dramatic increase in surveillance and a hellspawn hybrid of communism and fascism after said imported threat has been miraculously dealt with.

Totally agree that we are being presented by the bogie man so that increased surveillance can be implemented. They don't trust us do they and need to keep tabs on all we do.

ill be back in a mo, someone is at the do...

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2 minutes ago, One-percent said:

Hi policies though and the way in which he sold the working class down the river would have made thatcher proud. In no sense was he left wing in the things he implemented. Micromanagement yes, but this is not limited to the left. John major introduced ofsted for example, the princes of micromanagement 

Blair dudnt do a lot, thats his problem.

His biggest domestic mistake was not sacking Brown.

Blair had a grasp if what needed sorting. He bottled the lot, then let Brown blow the biggest credit and spending boom in history.

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14 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Blair dudnt do a lot, thats his problem.

His biggest domestic mistake was not sacking Brown.

Blair had a grasp if what needed sorting. He bottled the lot, then let Brown blow the biggest credit and spending boom in history.

Introduced tuition fees;introduced the minimum wage, even when told that this would become the benchmark rather than the floor; tore up clause four; gave the boe independence; started an illegal war; in post when the massive wave of immigration began. 

Yeah, he didn't do a lot (of good) :)

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55 minutes ago, One-percent said:

Introduced tuition fees;introduced the minimum wage, even when told that this would become the benchmark rather than the floor; tore up clause four; gave the boe independence; started an illegal war; in post when the massive wave of immigration began. 

Yeah, he didn't do a lot (of good) :)

His wa Iraq.

The rest, he let idiots talk him into.

Blairs an innumerate idiot. Could nit follow the numbers.

So was Brown though.

Blair saw himself as starting a dialogue. He was clueless where to take it.

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12 minutes ago, One-percent said:

Foundations of the Labour Party.  Largely symbolic but it enabled Bliar and brown to cut the ties to both the wider labour movement and to the working class. We ended up with Tory right once that happened. 

No. The labour party was formed from the collective labour movement.

There were a large number of inputs - trade unions, worker collective. Clause 4 came from the bellend communists.

The core of the Labour party is the Uk working person. Not a LA worker, or some daft sod aligning himself to the Bolivarian struggle.

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Just now, spyguy said:

No. The labour party was formed from the collective labour movement.

There were a large number of inputs - trade unions, worker collective. Clause 4 came from the bellend communists.

The core of the Labour party is the Uk working person. Not a LA worker, or some daft sod aligning himself to the Bolivarian struggle.

We are going to have to,agree to,disagree on this one spy.

To secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange, and the best obtainable system of popular administration and control of each industry or service.

taken from Wikipedia 

the first part argues that a worker should be paid fairly for their labour.  The following point argues that the means of production is held in common. In terms of utilities and what directly impacts on peoples' wellbeing, I agree.  If it is superfluous to this, then yes it can be held privately and knock yourself out making a profit.  The third point suggests that the system should be overseen in the most efficient and equitable way.   

I don't see what the problem is unless you are out to make out like a bandit at the expense of others 

 

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19 minutes ago, One-percent said:

We are going to have to,agree to,disagree on this one spy.

To secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange, and the best obtainable system of popular administration and control of each industry or service.

taken from Wikipedia 

the first part argues that a worker should be paid fairly for their labour.  The following point argues that the means of production is held in common. In terms of utilities and what directly impacts on peoples' wellbeing, I agree.  If it is superfluous to this, then yes it can be held privately and knock yourself out making a profit.  The third point suggests that the system should be overseen in the most efficient and equitable way.   

I don't see what the problem is unless you are out to make out like a bandit at the expense of others 

 

Written by the fabians. Smarmy way of insert ing a managment class on workers.

Im very serious about workers collective ownership.

State ownership is a dead head. 

Collective ownership and you get too many free riders.

Labour got into a stupid, static idea. Life is dynamic, you need to adapt.

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3 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Written by the fabians. Smarmy way of insert ing a managment class on workers.

Im very serious about workers collective ownership.

State ownership is a dead head. 

Collective ownership and you get too many free riders.

Labour got into a stupid, static idea. Life is dynamic, you need to adapt.

Agree, it's not perfect, but what is the alternative in our imperfect world? Ownership by the global elite? It ain't going so well at the moment.   

There will always be a tendency to both exploitation of others and an exploitation of power for one's own ends. How do we, as a society, inhibit the worse excesses of human nature so as to remove power from individual hands.  I would suggest that it is through putting the power into collective hands.

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5 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Theres no one answer, or perfect system.

Just have some broad aims and adapt as thing change

What do you suggest spy?  The current setup is clearly not working.  You might be right that the concept of socialism is a dead duck.  Bliar's third waynwas clearly a (fairly successful) attempt at fleecing ordinary people.. so, where do,we go from here?  I'm genuinely interested in your answer as unless we can come up with an alternative, all I can envisage is a continuation of trickle up until we are all serfs. 

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24 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Theres no one answer, or perfect system.

Just have some broad aims and adapt as thing change

 

Some years ago I thought this approach could help:

 

Edited by DarkHorseWaits-NoMore
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Yes, fair regulated informed moral capitalism... seems an obvious preference to try out, yet us humans don't seem to be able cooperate for long enough to achieve and evaluate the results. 

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Maybe in times past it was different, but the Labour Party has stood for nothing but overweening state control of everything, up to and including our thoughts, in my adult lifetime.  It honestly puzzles me how anybody can vote for Big Brother - I find them utterly repellent.  You may as well vote BNP, frankly.  It's just a case of which flavour of totalitarianism you want.

Apparently some eccentric old dear was standing as an independent candidate in the Stoke by election.  She didn't get the message that thanks to the Labour Party, we no longer live in a free country, and said that she wanted immigrants repatriated.  She was promptly arrested, had her laptop and such taken, and bailed.  Merely the latest outrage in a decade plus of outrages.

In the US the 1st Amendment would have given her a cast iron protection against that sort of police state nonsense, but thanks to Labour, not here.  They used to be nicknamed ZanuLabour for a reason.

Edited by EUBanana
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7 hours ago, EUBanana said:

Maybe in times past it was different, but the Labour Party has stood for nothing but overweening state control of everything, up to and including our thoughts, in my adult lifetime.  It honestly puzzles me how anybody can vote for Big Brother - I find them utterly repellent.  You may as well vote BNP, frankly.  It's just a case of which flavour of totalitarianism you want.

Apparently some eccentric old dear was standing as an independent candidate in the Stoke by election.  She didn't get the message that thanks to the Labour Party, we no longer live in a free country, and said that she wanted immigrants repatriated.  She was promptly arrested, had her laptop and such taken, and bailed.  Merely the latest outrage in a decade plus of outrages.

In the US the 1st Amendment would have given her a cast iron protection against that sort of police state nonsense, but thanks to Labour, not here.  They used to be nicknamed ZanuLabour for a reason.

Its really not just Labour, although they were pretty open about their pursuit of nannying. All the parties essentially want more control of the state whilst at the same time letting go of responsibility. 

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3 minutes ago, Pieman Pieface said:

Its really not just Labour, although they were pretty open about their pursuit of nannying. All the parties essentially want more control of the state whilst at the same time letting go of responsibility. 

True enough, though I think the Tories are not quite so bad.  I don't think the Tories have a real love of social engineering like the Labour Party does. 

I guess the only ones who don't are the LibDems, at least in theory, they always seem to have a big hint of the crazy about them though.

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Why now?  Surely it's far too late in the game.  A50 to be presented in about a month's time.  If he wanted to do this surely it should've been seven months ago.

Has taken this long for his remuneration package to be finally agreed perhaps?

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