EUBanana Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 All a bit chicken and egg, competent would-be politicians aren't going to sign up to a career death sentence unless they think there's a chance, and there isn't a chance until they get some competent politicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNACR Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 2 hours ago, thecrashingisles said: What's absurd is you conflating a geographically defined construct with 'globalism'. The EU is nationalist if anything, even if you do not believe in a European nation. 'the operation or planning of economic and foreign policy on a global basis' is what I am referring to by 'globalism'. I'm not sure what you mean by nationalist. If you are a corporation with a globalist outlook it stands to reason that economic planning requiring interaction with only one body, rather than many individual countries, whilst allowing you to legally base yourself in the single most tax efficient country, in the group, is clearly a system very much for your benefit. On top of this it allows you to access the cheapest labour market in the group. If you run Global Megacorp inc you might occasionally get the inconvenience of some daft students and lefties making a scene, with some placards, in your office reception area and then making some scathing comments about you on social media. However, every other day the exact same group is vigorously campaigning for the political and economic structure that allows you to pay little tax and boost profits with cheap migrant labour. As a lobby group they represent exceptionally good value when their only cost is the occasional smashed pot plant, in reception, and the price of cleaning a bit of paint off the windows once in a blue moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 5 minutes ago, SNACR said: 'the operation or planning of economic and foreign policy on a global basis' is what I am referring to by 'globalism'. I'm not sure what you mean by nationalist. The European Union is not and never will be a global organisation. It's about unifying the nations of Europe to form by some definitions a single country but there's nothing inherently global about it, any more than unifying England and Scotland could be called globalist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNACR Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 58 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said: The European Union is not and never will be a global organisation. It's about unifying the nations of Europe to form by some definitions a single country but there's nothing inherently global about it, any more than unifying England and Scotland could be called globalist. Not sure where I've said anything like this but, in any case, given its intention to annex Ukraine, and other countries on its eastern borders, it's certainly expansionist so I'm not sure how far east it would have to get to satisfy this definition of globalist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewingGrass Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 9 minutes ago, SNACR said: Not sure where I've said anything like this but, in any case, given its intention to annex Ukraine, and other countries on its eastern borders, it's certainly expansionist so I'm not sure how far east it would have to get to satisfy this definition of globalist. With you there on that, but the EU is a bit of an ideological cult which is why it has so many problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 21 minutes ago, SNACR said: Not sure where I've said anything like this but, in any case, given its intention to annex Ukraine, and other countries on its eastern borders, it's certainly expansionist so I'm not sure how far east it would have to get to satisfy this definition of globalist. 'The intention to annex Ukraine'? Are you mad? Is negotating a FTA now a form of annexation? Has the EU just annexed Canada in your book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNACR Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 59 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said: 'The intention to annex Ukraine'? Are you mad? Is negotating a FTA now a form of annexation? Has the EU just annexed Canada in your book? https://www.rt.com/op-edge/eu-annex-ukraine-nato-agreement-829/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 6 minutes ago, SNACR said: https://www.rt.com/op-edge/eu-annex-ukraine-nato-agreement-829/ Could you highlight which parts of this incoherent article you want to draw my attention to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNACR Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said: Could you highlight which parts of this incoherent article you want to draw my attention to? Its title referencing the EU annexing Ukraine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 1 minute ago, SNACR said: Its title referencing the EU annexing Ukraine Do you form all your opinions on the basis of headlines on RT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNACR Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said: Do you form all your opinions on the basis of headlines on RT? Sorry, my mistake, I've checked a western MSM news source and they, in fact, say Russia has tried to annex Ukraine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 1 minute ago, SNACR said: Sorry, my mistake, I've checked a western MSM news source and they, in fact, say Russia has tried to annex Ukraine. You'd be better off with Russian sources - http://pravo.gov.ru/proxy/ips/?docbody&nd=102171897 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 The EU is the fourth Reich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, Byron said: The EU is the fourth Reich Do you think that's a bad thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 8 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said: Do you think that's a bad thing? Worms, can, open Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gardener Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Byron said: The EU is the fourth Reich Yes. I suppose we'll have to put the Germans back in their box again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugsbody Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 On 16/02/2017 at 10:20 AM, casual_squash said: The referendum and the Brexit vote was a start. What I'd like to see is a country that't doesn't gravitate around London and we have more direct democracy. I like the way the Swiss way of having frequent referendums, on matters that really impact their lives. Not like, as someonee said earlier no say in anything apart form Bin collections and litter picking. All we have is kinder garden politics between two semi-authoritarian Political parties who gave out vague manifestos every 4/5 years which they don't stick to anyway. At this point in time I'd rather tolerate and vote for a disorganised rabble than the well oiled, greasy car sales man we currently have. I absolutely agree with the pointless manifestos that are broken immediately on being elected. I am still not sure I get what you're aiming for. Two points so far: 1. A country that is less London centric 2. More referendums to determine policy 100% agree on point 1. I'm very sceptical about point 2. But that aside it is good to see these measurable points that we can test to see if you'll get what you want by voting UKIP. Those things in themselves are still semi-intangible though. In themselves they're not something you can say, well, my life is better because X or Y. Would you mind taking this a bit further and naming some tangibles? I could start if you like. I'd vote for a political party who will ease planning permission, allow people to enlarge their own homes more easily, promise to build lots of new bigger homes or build upwards in London in strategy locations rather than sprawling further out. My life would be better for having to spend less on housing each month and commuting would be less of a living hell. I'd vote for a party who promises to target taxes on fossil fuels and allocate a lot more funding to clean energy. I'm sick of breathing in shit air. My life would be better because I'd be healthier, it would create a lot of jobs in new fields and we'd potentially become one of the leaders in exporting clean energy technology as a means to reducing our trade deficit. And that would mean higher tax take via salaries, profits, etc and our services could be improved, hence my life improved. I've got lots more, but those are examples of practical positive things. So what does UKIP promise you that will be practical positive improvements in your everyday life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pl1 Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 On 2/16/2017 at 3:11 AM, canbuywontbuy said: IMO, things have gotten a LOT worse since the early 80s. Of course technology improves, that's a given. However, now people work longer hours to pay disproportionately higher rents/mortgages/utility bills. People had more time in the 80s. Shorter commutes. Cheaper (free!) uni education. REAL jobs, no zero hour nonsense. Life was slower then (a good thing), even though we thought the 80s was "the future" back then . "The future's so bright, I gotta wear shades" (even if that song was a parody, it did capture an aspirational mood). We had aspiration, and a real chance to "make it". What young person is going to "make it" these days? Very very very few. Almost all will struggle just to carve out a meagre existence. The best they will ever do is get a dual-income mortgage for a wendy house slavebox on a 35 year mortgage - with combined student debts of maybe £60K+ on top of their mortgage debt. In the 80s, there was such a thing as recreation. People lived. Now people just commute and work, live at home with mum and dad. Don't go to nightclubs, just chat on Facebook. Frankly, I don't envy the hermit-live-at-mum-and-dads, no-disposable-income, high-debt, Facebook-as-entertainment lifestyle. Agree 100% with this. I'd also add an Iron Curtain that kept back several hundred million people, who are just as bright as you but can work for a fraction of the cost. No, I don't envy Generation Facebook. Not one bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canbuywontbuy Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 6 hours ago, pl1 said: Agree 100% with this. I'd also add an Iron Curtain that kept back several hundred million people, who are just as bright as you but can work for a fraction of the cost. No, I don't envy Generation Facebook. Not one bit. Generation Facebook are digging their own grave. They were far more likely to vote to Remain, they love globalisation and hate Trump. So be it. They seem utterly neutered to the point where I honestly think they've been chemically altered/"reprogrammed" in some way via diesel fumes, something in the water, vaccinations, something else, subliminal messaging, a combination of the aforementioned. Again, so be it. It is what it is. They are the snowflake generation defending the 1% for all their might. So be it. So be it. Another edit - I mean, look at this video....this is how bad it's gotten....this is overt brainwashing for the younger generations:- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 You have to aim "brainwashing" at the younger generation for their heads are empty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNACR Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Adolf Hitler — 'He alone, who owns the youth, gains the future.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 1 hour ago, canbuywontbuy said: Generation Facebook are digging their own grave. They were far more likely to vote to Remain, they love globalisation and hate Trump. European integration is not globalisation. The formation of the US and its expansion to the Pacific wasn't globalisation either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNACR Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 10 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said: European integration is not globalisation. The formation of the US and its expansion to the Pacific wasn't globalisation either. Straw man really, the history of European countries and the US aren't comparable due to the vast differences in time. If you wish to believe the EU doesn't promote globalisation that's fine. You might say differently but most people would say, for example, redundant Cadburys workers in Keynsham, after the factory was moved to Poland, are victims of globalisation. The same would be said of a scenario where a factory jobs here are all taken by a polish migrants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Globalisation, Europisation - same shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormymonday_2011 Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 8 hours ago, SNACR said: Adolf Hitler — 'He alone, who owns the youth, gains the future.' That worked out well for the youth of Germany Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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