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Sancho Panza

Pensioners '£20 a week better off' on average than workers

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Sky 13/2/17

'Pensioner households are now earning more than their working age equivalents, according to a new study.

Low income growth for working age households has coincided with a new generation of pensioners who tend to still be in work, own a home and receive generous pensions, analysis by the Resolution Foundation for the Intergenerational Commission shows.

The As Time Goes By study states that after housing costs, typical pensioner households are now £20 a week better off than typical working age ones.

The story is quite different from that of 2001, when pensioner incomes were £70 a week lower than working age ones.

The biggest reason for the growing wealth for older people were their occupational pensions, which account for over a third of gross pensioner income growth since 2001.

Also, 73% of pensioners now own their own homes, up from 64% 16 years ago.

However, there is still a big gap between the richest and poorest pensioners.

The top fifth of pensioner households account for 74% of employment income, 66% of investment income and 52% of occupational pension income.

But the bottom fifth are almost completely reliant on benefits.

Meanwhile, millennials' income growth is at a much lower rate, home ownership levels are falling and their access to defined benefit pension schemes is limited.'

Edited by Sancho Panza

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So for the rich ones if they go out to work (when they're not on their deckchairs on the beach according to the SKY image), own their own homes and draw their pension then they're £20 a week better off than working age workers just earning a wage.  That's a shock to SKY?

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Most deserve to be, many paid down their mortgage debt  as any debt was then considered bad and were advised by parents etc to do such and add whenever possible to pension/savings. However today's youngsters do not give a dam about debt and are encouraged by virtually everyone in a suit  to just keep adding to it as per our Gov do with the national debt. They will all eventually reap what they sow no doubt about it, so glad  my parents and advisers led me in the right direction, Oh and im off out now to spend my £20 :) 

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3 minutes ago, papag said:

Most deserve to be, many paid down their mortgage debt  as any debt was then considered bad and were advised by parents etc to do such and add whenever possible to pension/savings. However today's youngsters do not give a dam about debt and are encouraged by virtually everyone in a suit  to just keep adding to it as per our Gov do with the national debt. They will all eventually reap what they sow no doubt about it, so glad  my parents and advisers led me in the right direction, Oh and im off out now to spend my £20 :) 

You do know that he Gov debt is being run up for pensioners?

As far as 'When I was your age' stuff goes. When a 80 YO was 40, the equivalent 80 YO would have more likely to be dead.

 

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57 minutes ago, billybong said:

So for the rich ones if they go out to work (when they're not on their deckchairs on the beach according to the SKY image), own their own homes and draw their pension then they're £20 a week better off than working age workers just earning a wage.  That's a shock to SKY?

Nope it's the entire pensioner cohort( including the poor ones) v the entire working age cohort. I guess that's why free bus travel and half price theatre tickets makes sense.

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15 minutes ago, spyguy said:

You do know that he Gov debt is being run up for pensioners?

As far as 'When I was your age' stuff goes. When a 80 YO was 40, the equivalent 80 YO would have more likely to be dead.

 

They still did the right thing tho in the main, unlike most of today's buy now pay later society , now then whats my Credit Score :)

 

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Certainly it's going to be an issue until the boomers are all in retirement, circa 2025.

Issue being unsustainable trends set up in an era of bounty which can only be described as an anomaly... post war child bonuses, North Sea oil, consumer credit act, social housing right to buy, buy-to-let (Housing act), huge expansion in globalisation (trade), etc...

All this came online within a decade or two and enriched a single generation. Pretty amazing to be one of them.

Pretty sh1t to be the ones following.

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For the simple reason pensioners aren't sacked when there's a recession.

This is precisely what you would expect to happen when unemployment rises after the worst recession in a century. 

Perhaps 'Lord' Willetts could help by not taking his generous MPs pension and Lords kickbacks.

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49 minutes ago, crashmonitor said:

Nope it's the entire pensioner cohort( including the poor ones) v the entire working age cohort. I guess that's why free bus travel and half price theatre tickets makes sense.

Don't forget your free licence fee.and winter fuel allowance.I'm probably older than most on here,but it's just utterly unsustainable and hard to justify these freebies.

This has massive implications for the banking system longer term and the broader economy.Current working age families are struggling to buy a house and raise kids.Demographically,we're aging...fast.Each cohort of pensioners needs younger people to both pay for it (NI in the UK hasn't been separated into a SWF of any sort) and also to provide the services.Also worth noting the issues for Surrey council viz social care.A basic package of care of 4x1 carer per day costs £40 per day minimum,roughly £1,200 per month.

Paul Hodges bangs is a great source of info on this issue.

 

Edited by Sancho Panza

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39 minutes ago, papag said:

They still did the right thing tho in the main, unlike most of today's buy now pay later society , now then whats my Credit Score :)

 

Perhaps they just benefited from a period of massive inflation.

Compound inflation 1970 - 1980 was 383%

From 200 - 2010 it was 30%

My father maxed out on a house in 1972 - he told me the mortgage was almost 60% of his wages (no idea how he managed that - but he may have borrowed off a wealthy friend)

Within 3 years that mortage was only 30% of his wages. By 1980 is was only 10% of his wages.

That trick is one of the reasons today's retired are so wealthy. Their debt was inflated away.

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43 minutes ago, papag said:

They still did the right thing tho in the main, unlike most of today's buy now pay later society , now then whats my Credit Score :)

 

I dunno. I'm 50+ and after getting a mortgage at 14.5% I then bought the sofa on a 33% credit deal. Years earlier (when I was living at home) my mum installed central heating in our house on credit.

But I do stress to my kids that they should never use credit that isn't immediately paid off.

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27 minutes ago, CunningPlan said:

Perhaps they just benefited from a period of massive inflation.

Compound inflation 1970 - 1980 was 383%

From 200 - 2010 it was 30%

My father maxed out on a house in 1972 - he told me the mortgage was almost 60% of his wages (no idea how he managed that - but he may have borrowed off a wealthy friend)

Within 3 years that mortage was only 30% of his wages. By 1980 is was only 10% of his wages.

That trick is one of the reasons today's retired are so wealthy. Their debt was inflated away.

 
 
 

HPI has likely been 300+% in a decade too - and I reckon the price of most essential goods and services have also at least doubled.  Non essential rubbish has crashed in price. 

Wage inflation, however, has been practically unknown in the last decade or so.  That's the difference. 

Edited by StainlessSteelCat

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Classic divide and rule. Don't fall for it.

they are just softening us up so that they can take the wealth from the particular slice of society they have now set their sights on.

 

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1 hour ago, papag said:

They still did the right thing tho in the main, unlike most of today's buy now pay later society , now then whats my Credit Score :)

 

No they didn't.  They leave a poisonous legacy but provided they enjoy a comfortable retirement they don't give a ****.

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1 minute ago, Wayward said:

No they didn't.  They leave a poisonous legacy but provided they enjoy a comfortable retirement they don't give a ****.

No. It's classic divide and rule.  

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6 minutes ago, One-percent said:

Classic divide and rule. Don't fall for it.

they are just softening us up so that they can take the wealth from the particular slice of society they have now set their sights on.

 

100% agree.They need to make sure pensioner wealth cant be passed on to children.Millions of people who have worked hard and tried to keep debt free will use capital passed on from parents etc to retire themselves in their late 50s.The government cant let this happen as they need to keep the hard working people working forever for the tax to pass to the 25% who will never work and through them to the rentier class.All this talk of a care crisis,pensions etc is rubbish.Councils waste billions and billions on massive salaries for the click ie the managers.

If they take from the people who have assets,it wont go to the young,it will go to rich.The young will be still where they are without any hope of getting capital passed on.

We all know on here finance and immigration (through housing benefit mostly) is what is forcing up house prices.

 

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1 minute ago, durhamborn said:

100% agree.They need to make sure pensioner wealth cant be passed on to children.Millions of people who have worked hard and tried to keep debt free will use capital passed on from parents etc to retire themselves in their late 50s.The government cant let this happen as they need to keep the hard working people working forever for the tax to pass to the 25% who will never work and through them to the rentier class.All this talk of a care crisis,pensions etc is rubbish.Councils waste billions and billions on massive salaries for the click ie the managers.

If they take from the people who have assets,it wont go to the young,it will go to rich.The young will be still where they are without any hope of getting capital passed on.

We all know on here finance and immigration (through housing benefit mostly) is what is forcing up house prices.

 

Stated much more eloquently than I could.

to add, they are also eying up the massive equity that older generations are sitting on and working out a plan to relieve them of some of it.  I could guess how they will do it but don't want to post in case they have not thought out the detail. Don't want to give them ideas 

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32 minutes ago, Wayward said:

No they didn't.  They leave a poisonous legacy but provided they enjoy a comfortable retirement they don't give a ****.

+1

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2 hours ago, papag said:

Most deserve to be, many paid down their mortgage debt  as any debt was then considered bad and were advised by parents etc to do such and add whenever possible to pension/savings. However today's youngsters do not give a dam about debt and are encouraged by virtually everyone in a suit  to just keep adding to it as per our Gov do with the national debt. They will all eventually reap what they sow no doubt about it, so glad  my parents and advisers led me in the right direction, Oh and im off out now to spend my £20 :) 

I love this 'if we'd been in charge the financial crisis wouldn't have happened' argument.

 

You WERE in charge - govt and senior management - creating and maintaining the problems we have today.

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38 minutes ago, Wayward said:

No they didn't.  They leave a poisonous legacy but provided they enjoy a comfortable retirement they don't give a ****.

Some look after their kids as I have done , I have earned my uncomfortable retirement  and not just from HPI and very much give a xxxx about the future It worries me sick whats happening today

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8 minutes ago, Si1 said:

I love this 'if we'd been in charge the financial crisis wouldn't have happened' argument.

 

You WERE in charge - govt and senior management - creating and maintaining the problems we have today.

Not a clue what you are on about again do you just love arguing?

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8 minutes ago, papag said:

Not a clue what you are on about again do you just love arguing?

Very telling answer. Play the man not the argument.

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It's divide and rule.

Wages have been stagnant and pensions benefits largely destroyed.  That's your problem, not the pensioners.

What people did back then was go on strike and protest for better wages and benefits.  They didn't blame their parents for living too long.

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5 minutes ago, Si1 said:

Very telling answer. Play the man not the argument.

Think I will leave it there with you mate, good luck in life .

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6 minutes ago, kzb said:

It's divide and rule.

Wages have been stagnant and pensions benefits largely destroyed.  That's your problem, not the pensioners.

What people did back then was go on strike and protest for better wages and benefits.  They didn't blame their parents for living too long.

+100

plus they have sucked everything else fry.  Just giving to the elite so that they can buy their islands and super yachts. They throw the rest of us the scraps and watch us fight over them.

divide and rule has been used since Ancient Greece (dīvide et īmpera) and was discussed in 'the art of war'. Yet we fall for it time and again.  

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