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Vaping booming sector

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17 minutes ago, reddog said:

Wonder what this is doing to tobacco stocks?  They used to be seen as a very reliable art of a pension fund, good dividend payer etc.

That's my concern; I underestimated the effect of fracking upon oil shares.  If I was on the BAT Board I'd be getting into this pdq.

I'm surprised just how popular / profitable it is. I rarely see people vaping and it's not got the hook of the previous legal highs.

That may be because I seem to be immune to nicotine addiction, I used to smoke and still have the odd one (about two a month) but don't have any craving for it.

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1 minute ago, spunko2010 said:

BAT already own Blu. Or is that the other one that used to be called Philip Morris. They also own eLites and another one i can't remember. 

Cheers, that's reassuring.

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11 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

That's my concern; I underestimated the effect of fracking upon oil shares.  If I was on the BAT Board I'd be getting into this pdq.

I'm surprised just how popular / profitable it is. I rarely see people vaping and it's not got the hook of the previous legal highs.

That may be because I seem to be immune to nicotine addiction, I used to smoke and still have the odd one (about two a month) but don't have any craving for it.

Personally see people vaping all the time. I suppose it's a couple of things, I know a lot of people who smoke and they did so in the environment I see them do it openly and often. With smoking effectively banned in public you don't necessarily see people smoking they way you might have done, it's not completely hidden but it's certainly been pushed outside of most people's view. 

On the profitable part, all you need is some liquid nicotine, some flavourings and a agent for the vapour and you can set yourself up making e-liquid, nothing like that was possible with the traditional smoking methods. Same with the tech, plenty of stuff available from China to make your own equipment, or similarly cheap enough to get a shop up and running.  

It's the golden period for the industry at the moment, longer term there is no way the number of shops around can be sustained but there are enough smokers interested in moving over for it to be sustained for a few years. There is a tech structure so that every new smoker is on the hook for a few good hundred quid while you take them up the chain to the point the realise that unlike the tobacco industry everything is effectively in their hands or they are happy at various levels on the chain and come back for more.

If you do go in to these shops most of them are really about selling you their own brand e-liquid, no vaping stuff in general. Plenty of profit in the liquid. 

As with lots of stuff these days I suspect the big tobacco firms have for a good few years given up on the western markets and are now heavily invested elsewhere getting the emerging markets hooked. 

 

 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Cheers, that's reassuring.

The one concern I'd have is many people make their own eliquid. Once they realise how easy it is. 

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6 minutes ago, spunko2010 said:

The one concern I'd have is many people make their own eliquid. Once they realise how easy it is. 

Don't worry, they'll be banned from buying nicotine solution soon enough so that they're forced buy the ready made stuff at a massive mark up (for their own good of course, it's toxic you know :)).

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A monkey could make it's own liquid with all the information available these days. I can make a weeks worth of liquid for something like £1.50. The cost of vaping is as good as nothing. Buying the mods can be pricey I guess, far, far less so than it was a few years ago though when everything was custom made. Chinese mods now fill the gap for good performance and cheap prices. A £20 mod now, does what a £150 mod did 2 years ago.

However, in May new rules come into play. Nicotine liquid can only be sold in max 10ml containers, max 20mg strength, and tanks are maximum 2ml. The tank size won't really matter because you can just buy new ones from China anyway. The liquid will be an issue; most people vape far less than 20mg now due to high power lung inhale mods being in favour, vaping anything over 6mg with them is unpleasant and unnecessary.

Where it is a problem though is buying concentrated liquid to make your own, using 20mg, 10ml containers is a little different to buying 500ml of 72mg liquid. For this reason I've stocked up on 500ml, which should last me several years (for £18 - 2 years of nicotine, all day, every day), with an aim to be stopped in a few years by age 40, it's still a bad habit with unknowns at the end of the day, even if far preferable to smoking.

I'm certain these changes are coming from the tobacco company in some way and they seem to address non existent problems. Funnily enough, none of them effect the big companies solutions, how curious.

My favourite thing about vaping is avoiding all that tax. ho ho ho.

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1 minute ago, SpectrumFX said:

Don't worry, they'll be banned from buying nicotine solution soon enough so that they're forced buy the ready made stuff at a massive mark up (for their own good of course, it's toxic you know :)).

Already started along that line, it's now no longer possible to sell anything over 10ml commercially. 

 

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1 minute ago, gilf said:

Already started along that line, it's now no longer possible to sell anything over 10ml commercially. 

 

10ml lol. I'm shoving my pipette into a 250ml bottle sitting on my desk. Is a bit messy mind.

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Although smoking rates are down in the younger generation, once the older generation of smokers disappears, the big tobacco companies will be in trouble unless they can find substitute products to hook the youngsters.

Consequently, they will no doubt be involved in the growth industry of legalised cannabis.  They already have the farmland, distribution, packaging, marketing and infrastructure in place on a massive scale.  And if cannabis is seen to be beneficial to cancer treatments and pain relief, they will more than likely try and muscle in on the market by promoting the benefits of weed smoking to medicate the health problems that they've undoubtedly contributed towards over the years.

There's plenty of articles to read if you Google "big tobacco companies and cannabis"

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I wonder how many from that thread have given it all up now? I started vaping around then and feel very lucky to have been part of this all, the amount of lives it has saved must be immense.Not just saving lives either, the whole experience is 10 times that of smoking. Additionally I only vape 3mg now, I'm probably not even addicted to nicotine anymore.

I had planned on giving up this January, but thought, why? I enjoy it, and from how I feel, there doesn't seem to be a downside....

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I reckon they've got a couple more years of this tops before people wake up to the fact that effectively no safety studies have been done on vaping, and the first negative health stories start appearing. It's a scandal in the making how these products have been let on to the market  - the usual regulatory regimes and medical establishment have waved them through on the basis that they're 'safer than smoking', but that doesn't mean 'safe'. Inhaling stuff directly into your lungs is not going to be 'safe' long term.

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43 minutes ago, ccc said:

Your only 6 years behind me.

:D

 

Fair play, I started vaping after reading your thread when it was all still in the "what the ****** is that you're smoking!" days. Given up entirely now.

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8 minutes ago, RentingForever said:

I reckon they've got a couple more years of this tops before people wake up to the fact that effectively no safety studies have been done on vaping, and the first negative health stories start appearing. It's a scandal in the making how these products have been let on to the market  - the usual regulatory regimes and medical establishment have waved them through on the basis that they're 'safer than smoking', but that doesn't mean 'safe'. Inhaling stuff directly into your lungs is not going to be 'safe' long term.

That's why I have a bath instead of a shower, and avoid waterfalls :)

 

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14 minutes ago, SpectrumFX said:

Fair play, I started vaping after reading your thread when it was all still in the "what the ****** is that you're smoking!" days. Given up entirely now.

Nice one. How you find giving it up ? Most folk I know are still at it.

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21 minutes ago, RentingForever said:

I reckon they've got a couple more years of this tops before people wake up to the fact that effectively no safety studies have been done on vaping, and the first negative health stories start appearing. It's a scandal in the making how these products have been let on to the market  - the usual regulatory regimes and medical establishment have waved them through on the basis that they're 'safer than smoking', but that doesn't mean 'safe'. Inhaling stuff directly into your lungs is not going to be 'safe' long term.

There was the "popcorn lung" problems from certain flavours.  IMHO taking the approach of "safer than smoking" has been correct as it is as there will be a massive net health benefit and now the studies on vaping can show up what the downsides are.

I read in conjunction with a story on woodburning stoves being bad for your health (if you keep the front window open which Sarah told me you shouldn't do) that woodsmoke is full of particles that damage the lungs; the major health damage seems to be from smoke going into your lungs, whether from burning tobacco leaves, barbecue coke, or logs in a fire.

So take away that smoke and replace it with water and you get a health benefit.

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2 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

That's my concern; I underestimated the effect of fracking upon oil shares.  If I was on the BAT Board I'd be getting into this pdq.

I'm surprised just how popular / profitable it is. I rarely see people vaping and it's not got the hook of the previous legal highs.

That may be because I seem to be immune to nicotine addiction, I used to smoke and still have the odd one (about two a month) but don't have any craving for it.

Fear not brother, they are working on the odd small deal:

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/17/reynolds-american-announces-merger-agreement-with-british-american-tobacco.html

BAT would also be able to take Reynold's NGP portfolio, led by vaping brand Vuse, into its international markets, he said.

Debra A. Crew, Reynolds American's president and chief executive officer, said while the next generation products are currently only a small part of its business, they have enormous long-term potential. "More than half of smokers are interested in alternative products," she said. "The interest is there."

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23 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

There was the "popcorn lung" problems from certain flavours.  IMHO taking the approach of "safer than smoking" has been correct as it is as there will be a massive net health benefit and now the studies on vaping can show up what the downsides are.

I read in conjunction with a story on woodburning stoves being bad for your health (if you keep the front window open which Sarah told me you shouldn't do) that woodsmoke is full of particles that damage the lungs; the major health damage seems to be from smoke going into your lungs, whether from burning tobacco leaves, barbecue coke, or logs in a fire.

So take away that smoke and replace it with water and you get a health benefit.

Something has to kill you. 
We all need to decide what's best for society as a means of death.
 

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I listen to Rick Ackerman daily for his financial commentary but was surprised a few weeks ago to hear his commentary on legalised pot in Colorado. There are some interesting insights into the financial side of it.

 

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20 minutes ago, SarahBell said:

Something has to kill you. 
We all need to decide what's best for society as a means of death.
 

I vote for bear attacks.

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