rahhhh Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Any ideas for a reforms of the House of Lords? I was thinking that it may be good to have a House made of a random selection chosen from the people, like Jury Service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hail the Tripod Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 9 hours ago, rahhhh said: Any ideas for a reforms of the House of Lords? I was thinking that it may be good to have a House made of a random selection chosen from the people, like Jury Service. There's a good book, "Beyond Democracy" that makes the (quite convincing) case for doing exactly this to replace the Commons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUBanana Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 14 hours ago, rahhhh said: Any ideas for a reforms of the House of Lords? I was thinking that it may be good to have a House made of a random selection chosen from the people, like Jury Service. Yeah, sortition, it would be an excellent idea imo, but more for a lower house than an upper house. A revising chamber upper house like the Lords needs to have some hoary old lawyers and elder statesmen in it. Experts. Sortition in a lower house that pass bills to an upper house of technocrats to be honed into sensible law seems like a pretty good idea to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahBell Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 14 hours ago, hotairmail said: I would have regional Parliaments of about 5 million each. That's a lot of MPs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahBell Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Just now, hotairmail said: I'm looking at achieving the elusive 'full employment'. Oh well put me down for a bag full of expenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hail the Tripod Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 1 hour ago, hotairmail said: I can put your name down, but no expenses I'm afraid. All representatives must be over 70, give up all wordly things, dress in sack cloth and sandals and live in a purpose built parliamentary compound. Reintroducing the Gerousia? The Spartan system led to a hideous society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 There's no need for a second house. Many of the best-run countries in the world have single chamber parliaments (Nordics, NZ). Everywhere you have 2 chambers they are a relic from the times when people were explicitly divided into clergy, nobles and commoners. Just abolish it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will! Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 16 hours ago, Dorkins said: There's no need for a second house. Many of the best-run countries in the world have single chamber parliaments (Nordics, NZ). Everywhere you have 2 chambers they are a relic from the times when people were explicitly divided into clergy, nobles and commoners. Just abolish it. The House of Lords provides dedicated scrutiny of secondary legislation, which is important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 17 minutes ago, Will! said: The House of Lords provides dedicated scrutiny of secondary legislation, which is important. If enactment of primary legislation requires legislative scrutiny, the primary legislation should be amended in such a way that it is explicit what the legislature intends. Abolishing the second chamber would mean its roles transferring to other bodies (the first chamber and the judiciary). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will! Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 3 minutes ago, Dorkins said: If enactment of primary legislation requires legislative scrutiny, the primary legislation should be amended. That would generate a huge volume of legislative work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 4 minutes ago, Will! said: That would generate a huge volume of legislative work. Single chamber legislatures have been shown to work in practice. They are working right now in mature democracies like the Nordics and Baltics, New Zealand, Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 My 2nd chamber reforms: - No many political appoubtments. - No bishops. - No public sector workers. - Fixed 10 year term by someone shos worked 30 years in private sector. - Noone over 80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 7 minutes ago, Will! said: That would generate a huge volume of legislative work. Also, the first chamber should be working hard on legislation. MPs waste too much time acting as pseudo-councillors for their constituents. Much of their "constituency work" could be replaced by emailing back a contact list of the constituent's local councillors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blobloblob Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Sack the Bishops immediately. To paraphrase Monty Python, belief in the supernatural and possession of a pointy hat is no basis for a system of government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blobloblob Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Primary legislation should only be introduced through the Commons. New bills should never go through the Lords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blobloblob Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Either elect Lords or give the job to an independent committee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blobloblob Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Limit the number to, say, 500. All serve a fixed term of perhaps 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blobloblob Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Move them out of London to Birmingham, Manchester, Bristol or Leeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewingGrass Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 10 minutes ago, blobloblob said: independent committee When was the last time there was such a thing as a truly independant committee, plus committees can't make decisions without squandering multi-millions of cash on consultants, all of which have their own agenda and lobbyists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blobloblob Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 4 minutes ago, ChewingGrass said: When was the last time there was such a thing as a truly independant committee, plus committees can't make decisions without squandering multi-millions of cash on consultants, all of which have their own agenda and lobbyists. Agreed and I don't know how to get round that, but it can't be beyond the wit of man to improve upon the current cronyfest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheBlueCat Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Just abolish it, it adds no value that couldn't be replaced by making the house of commons spend more time looking at stuff before they pass it. In fact, if the commons spent more time on each act that would stop them passing so much pointless crap overal so it would be a double bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hail the Tripod Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 10 hours ago, Dorkins said: Single chamber legislatures have been shown to work in practice. They are working right now in mature democracies like the Nordics and Baltics, New Zealand, Israel. Not when they are composed by lottery rather than election as suggested in the OP. You wouldn't have the high proportion of lawyers or the experience of longstanding members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oracle Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 On 10/02/2017 at 3:28 PM, SarahBell said: That's a lot of MPs. not really. I work that out to be about 50 per region.aside from tings like transport+defence which need to be national, we could probably have it as 30 delegates per region,assigned via PR voting system If we were doing things on that kind of basis, we might as well consolidate all local government into it as well,because there's a lot of duplication. I'm not completely averse to the idea of consolidation of police forces etc within said regions. ie instead of say norfolk,suffolk,cambridgeshire,huntingdonshire we now have east anglia police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oracle Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 14 hours ago, Hail the Tripod said: Not when they are composed by lottery rather than election as suggested in the OP. You wouldn't have the high proportion of lawyers or the experience of longstanding members. I think the high proportion of lawyers is actually part of the problem. they speak a closed shop jargon and serve to make everything as semantically complex as possible to keep themselves in employment.Applies equally to the commons. we need a much better spread of society in both houses, not just bankers and lawyers.We need ground breaking doctors,engineers,industrialists and yes, some trade union reps. I wouldn't even dismiss some clergy out of hand either,because there is a need for a moral compass to temper the worst excesses of madcap transhumanists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 15 hours ago, TheBlueCat said: Just abolish it, it adds no value that couldn't be replaced by making the house of commons spend more time looking at stuff before they pass it. In fact, if the commons spent more time on each act that would stop them passing so much pointless crap overal so it would be a double bonus. Or they'd just fling the crap out unamended. I agree that the Lords in theory needs reform, unfortunately what I'm not sure about is if any alternative will actually do a better job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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