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Tiger131

New Car Scrappage Scheme - Are they Getting Desperate?

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Prescott is the genius and economic guru for that sort of policy.  

Scrap schemes for scrap parties and their scrap economy.  Prescott eureka'd it for housing then his pals in NuLabour copied it for cars and now the Conservatives are copying it again.

It's all so LibLabCon. 

Edited by billybong

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18 minutes ago, Eddie_George said:

They're desperate to get people to borrow more money. At least it isn't for housing I suppose.

Houses and cars are the most expensive items people buy, and hence the major drivers of debt creation, as the housing market is obviously stalling then next best thing to try and ramp up car loans to feed the GDP (Gross Debt Production) figures.

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Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that when crude oil is refined there was x% composition of petrol and y% of diesel, usually here is more petrol than diesel. If diesel if outlawed then what will happen to the diesel composition in oil? Can crude oil just be refined then cracked into petrol only and if not it would be extremely wasteful to have to simply have to throw away the diesel composition.

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^  

Express article

Quote

 

The Government is keen to rid Britain’s roads of diesel cars by 2030

 

What's the betting that by 2030 diesel will back again in the government book as the best thing since sliced bread.  Like it used to be.

(I realise they're pushing electric  - like they used to push diesel)

Edited by billybong

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1 minute ago, billybong said:

 


^

What's the betting that by 2030 diesel will back again as the best thing since sliced bread.  Like it used to be.

The peak oil theorists tell us that there won't be much of either petrol or diesel left by 2030. I'm starting to believe them to be honest.

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20 minutes ago, Tiger131 said:

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that when crude oil is refined there was x% composition of petrol and y% of diesel, usually here is more petrol than diesel. If diesel if outlawed then what will happen to the diesel composition in oil? Can crude oil just be refined then cracked into petrol only and if not it would be extremely wasteful to have to simply have to throw away the diesel composition.

Can probably use it in trains, ships and power stations, I'm guessing

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Yeah see I bought a diesel, thinking that was good of me. It's over 10 years old, but good for it's time. I'd say I could get about £4,000 for it now (though how this scheme, if announced, would affect that price I can't fathom). Getting £8,500 for it seems great, but how much would I need to spend? I planned to drive this one into the ground, it'd give me another 5 years driving easily. If I could get a new car for £14,000 and receive the full £8,500 I'd be interested but much more than that, I don't think it'd be worth my while. Why spend, say £10,000 I don't need to just because it's £4,500 less than I'd spend for the same vehicle without the scheme? I could wait 5 years, burn my old car and buy the same one I'd otherwise be buying that will then be 5 years old for £8,000, less in real terms.

It doesn't seem like the motivation is to get rid of these vehicles, but as others have said, subbing the car industry to get people spending money they otherwise wouldn't.

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Interesting idea -  A bit like Corbyn's plan to eliminate all diesel/petrol vehicles, but less ambitious and not as good at combating carbon emissions.

I would prefer if the scheme only allowed an upgrade to full electric, to help with the CO2 issue (two birds with one stone etc).

Also, we already knew diesel emissions were damaging to health (asthma etc) a long time before the diesel vehicle subsidy was introduced, as I remember doing a school project on the subject in the 1990s.

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2 hours ago, Tiger131 said:

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that when crude oil is refined there was x% composition of petrol and y% of diesel, usually here is more petrol than diesel. If diesel if outlawed then what will happen to the diesel composition in oil? Can crude oil just be refined then cracked into petrol only and if not it would be extremely wasteful to have to simply have to throw away the diesel composition.

These days they crack the crude pretty much whatever fractions they like.  If there is more petrol demand and less diesel they'll just make more petrol and less diesel.

1 hour ago, The Young and the Nestless said:

 

I would prefer if the scheme only allowed an upgrade to full electric, to help with the CO2 issue (two birds with one stone etc).

That really is the only sensible way for this to proceed. Oh, unless it's only about GDP, in which case it'll be any old modern non-petrol car.

1 hour ago, The Young and the Nestless said:

Also, we already knew diesel emissions were damaging to health (asthma etc) a long time before the diesel vehicle subsidy was introduced, as I remember doing a school project on the subject in the 1990s.

This is the crazy thing.  The problems with diesel particulates are obvious.  Back in the early 2000s they had the choice to push LPG, which would have been relatively better for city centres (at least until electrics became more common, as is happening now).  They could even have done something with taxation to encourage lower-mileage city cars to be petrol (small engine) or lpg (larger engine, perhaps all engines), with diesel only for high mileage motorway cruisers and long-distance commercial.  But no, they went all out for diesel.  Even where it wasn't so financially sensible to have a diesel (low mileage smaller cars) went for the diesels, as they were being promoted through lower tax etc.  

They're all idiots.

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Can i have a sub fot shoes, and ill walk?

Dont know thinking. Probkem is even cars made in ukdo not keep nany bruts in income.

Stupid idea. Reduce size if banks and debt. Shortterm ****** for nedium long term pain.

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33 minutes ago, Little Frank said:

Just as Npower ramps up cost of electricity by 15% 

never be a first adopter no matter how large the sweetener

A very good point.  All those 'free' charge slots are starting to disappear and as electric vehicles become more common those charging prices at service areas will increase.  No doubt some smart Alec is working on a scheme that will favor people who charge their vehicles outside busy periods like lunch time.

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1 hour ago, Little Frank said:

Just as Npower ramps up cost of electricity by 15% 

never be a first adopter no matter how large the sweetener

Up 15% despite the oil and gas prices still being well below the peak.  It's not as if domestic electricity prices moved much since the peak oil and gas prices despite massive oil/gas price falls.  Recently oil and gas have moved up a bit and as usual the likes of npower are quick to follow the up movements.  Blame it on the Leave the eu vote?

Price gougers.

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1 hour ago, dougless said:

 No doubt some smart Alec is working on a scheme that will favor people who charge their vehicles outside busy periods like lunch time.

I interviewed at a company last week who is currently testing a system that does exactly what you say.  

The biggest problem with electrifying transport imo is going to be the demands on the grid. We will be lucky if we are allowed to run our washing machines when we want come 2030 never mind charge our cars.

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Noticed that the coal fired power station held as 'backup' near me was running at full chat this morning. Most local electricity distribution networks were installed in the 1960s are not up to the job of en-mass car charging as well plus if you live in a house with no off street parking you are fooked anyway for charging at home as you can't leave trailing leads across the pavement.

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12 hours ago, Tiger131 said:

The peak oil theorists tell us that there won't be much of either petrol or diesel left by 2030. I'm starting to believe them to be honest.

they also tell you that you fuel your car with liquefied dinosaur bones. believe what you need to believe.

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For a lot of electric cars the £8.5k just about covers the batteries cost. It strikes me as a battery funding scheme more than anything.

The biggest obstacle to electric car ownership is the many and various leases, buybacks etc that fund the relatively short life of the battery packs and which are particularly confusing for buyers. Til the industry settles on a sensible model and some kind of standardisation of packs i have no intention of going electric.

Selling one of these second hand must be a nightmare. The batteries arent at full capacity...at some point in the next few years the buyer will have to replace the batteries at a cost of up to 10k. I read an article about a diy battery kit for some older lexus. They sell a plastic frame which fits the battery compartments which you can fill with hundreds of standard rechargable d cell batteries....apparently its the cheapest way to do it.

The other problem i have is that the officially quoted ranges are fairly poor....but you have to half those if you are travelling at motorway speeds. I read an irish site doing a long run test on a nissan leaf and they managed a range of 62 miles at motorway speeds. 

 

 

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