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Mikhail Liebenstein

Support for Brexit will topple Corbyn

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Labour Grass roots up in arms over Corbyn's Brexit backing stance.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/28/jeremy-corbyn-faces-mutiny-over-article-50

Looks like they are concerned about the great leaders vision of a socialist Britain outside of EU rules that would prevent it, fear in might actually become a US Capitalist vision.

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4 hours ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

Labour Grass roots up in arms over Corbyn's Brexit backing stance.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/28/jeremy-corbyn-faces-mutiny-over-article-50

Looks like they are concerned about the great leaders vision of a socialist Britain outside of EU rules that would prevent it, fear in might actually become a US Capitalist vision.

I think they are looking at the wrong "grass roots"  2000 signatures, it`s them that signal the end of Corbyn..........  and the Labour party

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Quite. Labour forgot who its grass roots were years ago when it was hijacked by left wing intellectuals/luvvies and tried buying elections through focussing on expanding its welfare clients and mass immigration.

All the old school labour voters I knew basically worked themselves into an early grave and had a view of a future that was better than their present and it wasn't  900 chanels of shite TV, a high street full of takeaways and the importation of cheap (slave) labour for the benefit of employers.

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41 minutes ago, ChewingGrass said:

Quite. Labour forgot who its grass roots were years ago when it was hijacked by left wing intellectuals/luvvies and tried buying elections through focussing on expanding its welfare clients and mass immigration.

All the old school labour voters I knew basically worked themselves into an early grave and had a view of a future that was better than their present and it wasn't  900 chanels of shite TV, a high street full of takeaways and the importation of cheap (slave) labour for the benefit of employers.

Spot on.  The years under Bliar and the invention of nulabour marked the moment when the Labour Party turned its collective back on its traditional supporters. Quite an achievement for a party that originally grew out the labour movement. I don't agree though with the view that it has been taken over by the left, quite the opposite. 

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39 minutes ago, One-percent said:

Spot on.  The years under Bliar and the invention of nulabour marked the moment when the Labour Party turned its collective back on its traditional supporters. Quite an achievement for a party that originally grew out the labour movement. I don't agree though with the view that it has been taken over by the left, quite the opposite. 

Yep, my mistake, years of indoctrination has resulted in me associating intellectual luvvies with the left wing, should have dropped the left wing prefix.

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14 minutes ago, ChewingGrass said:

Yep, my mistake, years of indoctrination has resulted in me associating intellectual luvvies with the left wing, should have dropped the left wing prefix.

When I accused nulabour on here of being Tory lite, another poster accurately corrected this to Tory right :)

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Quote

Tory I spoke to envision a mini-Singapore/USA. Corbyn and socialist are mad to support it, but ****** 'em 

The EU Elites have the same plan for Europe- they also want a 'deregulated' cheap labour economy- the difference is that I can vote out the Tories.

Quote

 

The ECB will have no problem in replying. The standard response will be to say that not only the best but also the only contribution a central bank can make to growth and jobs is to promote price stability. The bank will also add one piece of stinging policy advice. It will suggest that, especially in a single currency area characterised by divergences and imbalances, all rigidities that hamper the functioning of labour markets need to be eliminated if the economy is to engage in a process of growth and powerful job creation.  

When the central bankers of Europe talk about flexible labour markets, they mean serious business. Indeed, the ECB’s view of flexibility is all-encompassing: every labour market institution or regulation that may prevent prices (wage cuts) and quantities (scrapping jobs, firing workers) from falling is being questioned, from minimum wages or sectorial collective bargaining practices to rules that offer some job protection. Moreover, as we have seen in recent years in the financially distressed economies of the Eurozone, the ECB is also prepared to use its power as ‘lender of last resort’ to impose, together with the IMF and DG ECOFIN, structural reforms that deregulate labour markets in individual member states, and especially wage formation processes.

 

http://www.progressiveeconomy.eu/content/european-central-bank-and-progressive-labour-en

The reality is that the cute puppy of a 'social' Europe in which the rights of the little guy were to be protected has grown up into an ugly Neo Liberal Dog that wants nothing more than to sink it's teeth into those same rights and rip the guts out of them.

It's a testament to the enduring power of meme's that so many people voted to remain inside an EU that now exists in their collective imagination and nowhere else.

 

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On 29/01/2017 at 5:10 PM, One-percent said:

Spot on.  The years under Bliar and the invention of nulabour marked the moment when the Labour Party turned its collective back on its traditional supporters. Quite an achievement for a party that originally grew out the labour movement. I don't agree though with the view that it has been taken over by the left, quite the opposite. 

 

I think the real problem with welfare dependency was created by Gordon Brown in The Treasury rather than Blair as PM. Blair gave air cover though.

My big gripe with Theresa May is that she is cut from the same cloth as Brown, and is too left wing for a Conservative.

Edited by Mikhail Liebenstein

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27 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

 

I think the real problem with welfare dependency was created by Gordon Brown in The Treasury rather than Blair as PM. Blair gave air cover though.

My big gripe with Theresa May is that she is cut from the same cloth as Brown, and is too left wing for a Conservative.

The problems for labour are not just the idiotic brown policies.  It is also the craven way that they would do anything, including trying to out Tory the tories.  This was Bliar's gift to us. Then brown just built on it.

may looks too left wing as there has been a paradigm shit to the right and she represents the old Tory right, which when compared to nulabour looks positively socialist.  

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14 minutes ago, One-percent said:

The problems for labour are not just the idiotic brown policies.  It is also the craven way that they would do anything, including trying to out Tory the tories.  This was Bliar's gift to us. Then brown just built on it.

may looks too left wing as there has been a paradigm shit to the right and she represents the old Tory right, which when compared to nulabour looks positively socialist.  

Spot on 

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Did New Labour turn its back on its traditional support? No doubt they did.... but hadn't this voter group changed by the 1990s and most notably shrunk sufficiently enough they couldnt rely on them solely, so had to realise this and embrace 'Mondeo man' and 'Worcester Woman' instead?   

In any case all centre-leftist parties are finding the present world tough right now in every other country too so not just our Labour party, but I can imagine there is huge potential for someone who is a credible non-establishement party to find a way through it.

Back to the thread subject, JC has pointed out he wishes to follow the verdict of the referendum and its resonable to expect the shadow cabinet to respect it too. I think it was Chukka Amanna said Labour should support the leave vote in exchange for the Brexiteers promising £350m/wk for the NHS...which struck me as a cunning way around the issue!

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15 hours ago, wonderpup said:

It's a testament to the enduring power of meme's that so many people voted to remain inside an EU that now exists in their collective imagination and nowhere else.

Even that's not a problem if they've got a goal to bring that imagined EU to reality (whether I agree with it or not is a separate question). But what I think you're getting at is that they believe their imagined EU is what we've actually got.

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On 29/01/2017 at 5:10 PM, One-percent said:

Spot on.  The years under Bliar and the invention of nulabour marked the moment when the Labour Party turned its collective back on its traditional supporters. Quite an achievement for a party that originally grew out the labour movement. I don't agree though with the view that it has been taken over by the left, quite the opposite. 

Nulabour turned labour from a party of coal miners,steel workers and car workers in the whole of the country o a party of champagne SJW living in london sitting on huge hpi in the 90s and 00s. Thank bliar and brown for that. Now they are unelectable.

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12 hours ago, TheBlueCat said:

2000 resignations out of 500,000 members, seems like a storm in a tea cup to me.

Yeah what about these Momentum people, surely as soon as Corbyn goes up against Clive Lewis for the party vote, he will crush him.  The last thing Labour need is another leadership election.

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Corbyn has made plenty of blunders. Ironically his position on brexit was the perfect one; a cautious 6/10 support for the EU, keeping a low profile during campaigning as he knew attention was all on the tories anyway and potentially the labour party could be in optimal position whatever the outcome. Wasnt that what all conquering theresa may did? What he didnt count on was the labour right using it as a convenient veicle to run him over. Far too in denial to face the reality of a leave vote, far too cowardly to  blame the majority of the electorate, including their own ignored for a decade voters who decided to leave, they turn their impotent rage on hapless jeremy.

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On 1/29/2017 at 11:31 AM, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

Labour Grass roots up in arms over Corbyn's Brexit backing stance.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/28/jeremy-corbyn-faces-mutiny-over-article-50

Looks like they are concerned about the great leaders vision of a socialist Britain outside of EU rules that would prevent it, fear in might actually become a US Capitalist vision.

...rather than a Merkel communist vision.....:rolleyes:

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On 11/02/2017 at 4:16 PM, nothernsoul said:

Corbyn has made plenty of blunders. Ironically his position on brexit was the perfect one; a cautious 6/10 support for the EU, keeping a low profile during campaigning as he knew attention was all on the tories anyway and potentially the labour party could be in optimal position whatever the outcome. Wasnt that what all conquering theresa may did? What he didnt count on was the labour right using it as a convenient veicle to run him over. Far too in denial to face the reality of a leave vote, far too cowardly to  blame the majority of the electorate, including their own ignored for a decade voters who decided to leave, they turn their impotent rage on hapless jeremy.

Spot on. If support for Brexit topples Corbyn then toppling Corbyn will kill Labour. It's all too obvious that this is not about Brexit, it's about weakening Corbyn and they are alienating the electorate in the process. 

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11 hours ago, Digsby said:

Spot on. If support for Brexit topples Corbyn then toppling Corbyn will kill Labour. It's all too obvious that this is not about Brexit, it's about weakening Corbyn and they are alienating the electorate in the process. 

..Corbyn is on the right track re Brexit as far as the democratic majority of people in this country are concerned.. ....and he was always anti EU...no surprises there ....any  element of Labour on the other side will suffer....:rolleyes:

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