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fru-gal

Brexit already affecting employment from EU (people are not coming to the UK to work)

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I doubt it for Nurses.

Spain, portugal and italy have loads of trained nurses and no jobs to go to. I know a lot of young nurses at the big regional hospital. They are here to get some well paid - about 59% more than at home- work. They get laid on housing, work shifts so can bank holiday and vastly improve their English, which would have cost them E3-5k back home. 

5 years and they set up.

 Despite the claims the nhs pays way morefor staff the eu healthcare providers.

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On 27/01/2017 at 3:58 PM, the gardener said:

More Remoaner propaganda.

Really? Fewer people coming sounds like good news to me, not Remoaner propaganda. Although if I could stomach reading the articles no doubt they'd try to paint it as bad.

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On Sat Jan 28 2017 at 6:15 PM, spyguy said:

I doubt it for Nurses.

Spain, portugal and italy have loads of trained nurses and no jobs to go to. I know a lot of young nurses at the big regional hospital. They are here to get some well paid - about 59% more than at home- work. They get laid on housing, work shifts so can bank holiday and vastly improve their English, which would have cost them E3-5k back home. 

5 years and they set up.

 Despite the claims the nhs pays way morefor staff the eu healthcare providers.

I don't agree with you. I'm spanish nurse and the salary is more or less the same in public hospitals (rubbish for the kind of work and for requiring an university degree). The difference between Spain and UK is that in Spain there are no jobs for nurses. And if you're lucky you can get a temporary one. Of course they earn more money coming to UK because they can work as in UK they get permanent jobs.

But this is not the only reason to come to UK. The come to gain points. To work in a public hospital in Spain you need to have points. The more points you have, the more possibilities to get a job. Points are gained by working in a public healthcare into EU. So they can gain more points coming to work to UK than waiting for a job in Spain. After a few years they can come back to Spain with more points and more possibilities to work. This obviously is gonna change with brexit.

At the same time they can work for private agencies as extra and gain more money. These agencies pay much better than NHS. However, they need to work to the NHS to get the points. As most of them want to come back to Spain in 2-5 years.

 

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4 minutes ago, Secun said:

I don't agree with you. I'm spanish nurse and the salary is more or less the same in public hospitals (rubbish for the kind of work and for requiring an university degree). The difference between Spain and UK is that in Spain there are no jobs for nurses. And if you're lucky you can get a temporary one. Of course they earn more money coming to UK because they can work as in UK they get permanent jobs.

But this is not the only reason to come to UK. The come to gain points. To work in a public hospital in Spain you need to have points. The more points you have, the more possibilities to get a job. Points are gained by working in a public healthcare into EU. So they can gain more points coming to work to UK than waiting for a job in Spain. After a few years they can come back to Spain with more points and more possibilities to work. This obviously is gonna change with brexit.

At the same time they can work for private agencies as extra and gain more money. These agencies pay much better than NHS. However, they need to work to the NHS to get the points. As most of them want to come back to Spain in 2-5 years.

 

To be honest, the ones I know are mainly Portuguese.

When Ive socialised with them, its been 60% Portugues, 10% Spanish, 10% Italian. There was a single German, who liked Cornwall/surfing.

The Portguese ones are doing it as there are jobs avilable, a chance to practise/go up the skill ranking, the money is a lot better. One of the biggies is working in an English speaking environment. They all stressed that. Even if they go back to Portugual they reckon theyll have jumped up th skill ladder and be speaking English, which will serve for most EU worldwide patients.

I should point out that I am very pro on the FOM thing - providing its working and no restoring to benefits. Its a very good idea and allows countries to ease the pain of slowdown/fckup.

The current FOBenefits thing is wrong and a disaster and is the reason for Brexit.

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On ‎1‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 3:58 PM, the gardener said:

More Remoaner propaganda.

Do you have any inside knowledge or supports that view, or is that you do not like the story so default to calling it propaganda.

My wife works in the NHS in a role that involves making sure that her trust has have enough staff to operate safely. What she has seen since the vote pretty much confirms the story, huge drop in job applications from EU since the vote and around a third of offers not being taken up.   

The reality is we will need to recruit huge numbers of doctors and nurses from abroad in the coming years (as demand grows and retirements peak) we are not training these staff, so irrespective of Brexit the numbers of foreign workers required by the NHS is going to rise massively over the next 10 years.   

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On 1/27/2017 at 3:58 PM, the gardener said:

More Remoaner propaganda.

Why would anyone come to the UK when they have no guaranteed stability after Brexit? How are you supposed to raise a family, buy or rent a home etc when the Government could say to you if you lose your job after working here for 3 years that you have to leave? If it was me I wouldn't bother and would look at somewhere like Germany, Holland or Scandinavia. Before Brexit there was more incentive to come to the UK because of language and culture but Brexit has made it a lot harder. I imagine a lot of EU workers are now weighing up the pros and cons.

Edited by fru-gal

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All the more reason to start valuing our own people and give them some incentives for education and training.

Like I keep saying we have 843,000 NEETs.  Real unemployment is 5 million.

1. Quit with the tuition fees and student loans.

2 Provide truly affordable housing so people can move between areas.

Problem solved.

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18 hours ago, fru-gal said:

Why would anyone come to the UK when they have no guaranteed stability after Brexit? How are you supposed to raise a family, buy or rent a home etc when the Government could say to you if you lose your job after working here for 3 years that you have to leave? If it was me I wouldn't bother and would look at somewhere like Germany, Holland or Scandinavia. Before Brexit there was more incentive to come to the UK because of language and culture but Brexit has made it a lot harder. I imagine a lot of EU workers are now weighing up the pros and cons.

Good! Are you seriously trying to suggest that ending a system that makes it easy for people to keep moving into a country that would be a lot better with fewer people in it is a bad thing? There should be very few people coming here and working on anything other than limited time contracts, and those only to fill in ups and downs in the demand for labour (and in the shorter term to manage the transitions from our own inability to bother training the people we need).

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1 hour ago, Riedquat said:

Good! Are you seriously trying to suggest that ending a system that makes it easy for people to keep moving into a country that would be a lot better with fewer people in it is a bad thing? There should be very few people coming here and working on anything other than limited time contracts, and those only to fill in ups and downs in the demand for labour (and in the shorter term to manage the transitions from our own inability to bother training the people we need).

We need immigration. At the moment we have too much unskilled immigration especially too much non-EU unskilled immigration. Yes, we do need less but we still need immigrants. There are many, many immigrants who work hard and contribute and many British people who don't and who are a burden to society. Cameron could have stopped a lot of "demand" by changing the lure by limiting tax credits, housing benefit etc so that only those who are paying in more than they take out can afford to come here and are encouraged to. But big business, landlords etc didn't want that as they need all these taxpayer subsidies (because wages are kept purposely low) to keep their businesses in profit and themselves rich. I imagine Brexit will simply mean we get more non-EU unskilled migrants (family reunification) which the government could have reduced without Brexit. The politicians don't really want immigration to stop, as their backers don't want it to stop.

Edited by fru-gal

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12 minutes ago, fru-gal said:

We need immigration. At the moment we have too much unskilled immigration especially too much non-EU unskilled immigration. Yes, we do need less but we still need immigrants.

That we "need" them is a symptom of a fecked-up country in a fundamentally unsustainable position, it's a country that's become a dependent addict on something that's doing it no good whatsoever and really needs to break that addiction before things get worse. Whatever other needs there are the need to not keep adding to the population is greater. At most immigration should only be there to smooth out the ups and downs in labour demand (which would mean overall no net movement in any one direction). Anything else does far more harm than good.

The politicians don't really want immigration to stop, as their backers don't want it to stop.

Sadly that's true - they've no interest in making the UK the best place to live in as possible for the people living in it. Brexit is showing that the patience for such politicians is wearing very thin indeed though.

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There has been a large decrease in British nurses start nursing studies this year, since the government removed the grants

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4182438/Nursing-students-25-NHS-grants-axed.html

Together with the Brexit fall in sterling, looks like big pay rise in Nurse pay will be upcoming.

Thanks alot, my wife is a nurse :)

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5 hours ago, Peter Hun said:

There has been a large decrease in British nurses start nursing studies this year, since the government removed the grants

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4182438/Nursing-students-25-NHS-grants-axed.html

Together with the Brexit fall in sterling, looks like big pay rise in Nurse pay will be upcoming.

Thanks alot, my wife is a nurse :)

I think the blues have other ideas:

Quote

A new role - called nursing associate - is to be developed to sit alongside existing nursing care support workers and fully-qualified registered nurses in both health and social care.

https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/about/news/green-light-new-nursing-associate-role

Quote

Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt will announce new nursing degree apprenticeship, opening up a career in nursing to more people.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-nursing-degree-apprenticeship

It occurred to me that the NHS is one sector that has not had wages suppressed by immigration?

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We "need" immigration.

Anyone who says that is mentally ill in my opinion.

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2 hours ago, Sheeple Splinter said:

I think the blues have other ideas:

https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/about/news/green-light-new-nursing-associate-role

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-nursing-degree-apprenticeship

It occurred to me that the NHS is one sector that has not had wages suppressed by immigration?

I was talking to an experienced nurse last week. 40 years under her belt. Aged 61 now and gave up her national health role looking after the terminally ill two years ago due to health problems of her own. She took a minimum wage job as a gp receptionist three days a week to help to keep money coming in. Recently she was asked to take on a healthcare assistant role at the gp practice. After perusing the job description she was interested because as far as she was concerned it was a nurse job description. But the pay was minimum wage! She declined because she has less responsibility as a receptionist!

Edited by Economic Exile

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I am all for paying nurses more money. I'm less sure I want my own taxes to pay for them though as I feel I pay enough already, so hopefully they tax someone else instead of me. Any volunteers?

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22 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

I am all for paying nurses more money. I'm less sure I want my own taxes to pay for them though as I feel I pay enough already, so hopefully they tax someone else instead of me. Any volunteers?

Amazon, Starbucks?  They may be able to contribute 

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2 hours ago, One-percent said:

Amazon, Starbucks?  They may be able to contribute 

As companies only generate money from their customers, that's just a stealth tax trying to hide the fact that is we want a world class heath service we need to pay for it. 

At the moment it seems that most people they only want a world class NHS if they can get someone else to pay for it.     

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4 hours ago, Economic Exile said:

I was talking to an experienced nurse last week. 40 years under her belt. Aged 61 now and gave up her national health role looking after the terminally ill two years ago due to health problems of her own. She took a minimum wage job as a gp receptionist three days a week to help to keep money coming in. Recently she was asked to take on a healthcare assistant role at the gp practice. After perusing the job description she was interested because as far as she was concerned it was a nurse job description. But the pay was minimum wage! She declined because she has less responsibility as a receptionist!

Understandable, but presumably that's down to the pay grade structure rather than immigration?

 

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