London pollution

[Ash4781]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-38746482

There has been a fair amount of press recently on London pollution levels. I am surprised to read a large proportion of some pollutants / pollution episodes are accordingly to kings college work down to wood burning stoves. The economics of them [wood stoves] didn't work for me unless you had access to loads of cheap wood. I have seen first hand owners using 'alternative' fuel eg any old wood thrown in the burner! 

[spyguy]

7 minutes ago, Ash4781 said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-38746482

There has been a fair amount of press recently on London pollution levels. I am surprised to read a large proportion of some pollutants / pollution episodes are accordingly to kings college work down to wood burning stoves. The economics of them [wood stoves] didn't work for me unless you had access to loads of cheap wood. I have seen first hand owners using 'alternative' fuel eg any old wood thrown in the burner! 

Yeah. I heard this. I call BS.

Most of London is flats and the like. I just dont think there's that many wood burning stoves in London.

Ive never walked in a London street and smelt wood smoke - bar one wood fire Pizza place.

What London has is sh1t loads of diesel engines, thats what the pollution is.

 

[winkie]

Clean air acts, thought you couldn't burn wood or non smokeless coal in London?

http://cleanair.london/sources/updating-the-clean-air-act-for-modern-fuels-and-technologies/

[SpectrumFX]

14 minutes ago, winkie said:

Clean air acts, thought you couldn't burn wood or non smokeless coal in London?

http://cleanair.london/sources/updating-the-clean-air-act-for-modern-fuels-and-technologies/

 I think they stopped enforcing all of that on domestic properties because we'd all gone over to gas, so there was no point. If there's a fine to be charged the councils will be on it soon enough.

[SarahBell]

http://inrix.com/press-releases/copenhagen-named-least-congested-scandinavian-city/

 

Copenhagen Named Least Congested Scandinavian City

From the BBC article:  In fact, according to a presentation by The Danish Ecological Council which has looked into the use of wooden stoves: "Just 16,000 wood stoves in Copenhagen (600,000 inhabitants) emit as much fine-particles pollution in one winter, as all traffic emit within one year."

[spyguy]

2 hours ago, winkie said:

Clean air acts, thought you couldn't burn wood or non smokeless coal in London?

http://cleanair.london/sources/updating-the-clean-air-act-for-modern-fuels-and-technologies/

Only if you are poor person.

If you are called Henrietta you're OK.

 

[spyguy]

29 minutes ago, SarahBell said:

http://inrix.com/press-releases/copenhagen-named-least-congested-scandinavian-city/

 

Copenhagen Named Least Congested Scandinavian City

From the BBC article:  In fact, according to a presentation by The Danish Ecological Council which has looked into the use of wooden stoves: "Just 16,000 wood stoves in Copenhagen (600,000 inhabitants) emit as much fine-particles pollution in one winter, as all traffic emit within one year."

Interesting. Its fine paritcle pollution. Is that the same as diesel particle crp?

 

Maybe so (Ive not checked the facts or sources):

http://www.familiesforcleanair.org/myths/

 

So, this Hyge or whatever thats been in the mags. Is Hyge the sound of people coughing their guts up?

[Lord D'arcy Pew]

3 hours ago, winkie said:

Clean air acts, thought you couldn't burn wood or non smokeless coal in London?

http://cleanair.london/sources/updating-the-clean-air-act-for-modern-fuels-and-technologies/

"The fuel is burnt in an ‘exempt appliance’ (an appliance that has been tested to ensure it can burn the fuel without emitting excessive smoke) "

Fiddled, just like diesel emission figures perhaps?

Burning household waste and old tyres in them doesn't help the air quality much.

 

[Frank Hovis]

I read a piece recently that highlighted all the pollutants from a wood fire or wood burner if the glass is left open; it was really bad and quashed my assumption that a wood fire is somehow the natural option.

So after all the years of the media pushing trendy woodburners it turns out that they are actually bad for you. I did consider one but my now concealed fire place is in such an odd place that I didn't want to have that as the focus of the room.

[SarahBell]

3 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

I read a piece recently that highlighted all the pollutants from a wood fire or wood burner if the glass is left open; it was really bad and quashed my assumption that a wood fire is somehow the natural option.

So after all the years of the media pushing trendy woodburners it turns out that they are actually bad for you. I did consider one but my now concealed fire place is in such an odd place that I didn't want to have that as the focus of the room.

Ah you're supposed to shut the bloody doors though.


• Don’t leave the stove door open, unless you have been specifically instructed to by the manual when lighting the fire. You are crippling your stove’s efficiency and allowing all the lovely warm air in the room to shoot off straight up the chimney.

[onlyme2]

Had a big bonfire the other week to get rid of green waste. Filled the valley with smoke for a few hours despite best efforts to get it to burn hot and efficiently..

We're charged for and limited to the number of green bin collections.

Now my van needs a permit (new rule this year for local site) and only a restricted to number of visits to refuse site are allowed per year, they will be saved for removing renovation waste from the house, of which there is going to be a large amount.

So, waste policy directly leads to more pollution in this case.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Riedquat]

32 minutes ago, SarahBell said:

Ah you're supposed to shut the bloody doors though.


• Don’t leave the stove door open, unless you have been specifically instructed to by the manual when lighting the fire. You are crippling your stove’s efficiency and allowing all the lovely warm air in the room to shoot off straight up the chimney.

Might overheat too if too much air is getting in. A stove shouldn't really be letting anything other than heat out into the room, except perhaps a little when you open it to put more fuel on (might on rare occasions have it leaking smoke everywhere when first lit if the atmospheric conditions are really lousy for the chimney to draw - fog is a good indicator of that). Outdoors there's unlikely to even be much smell of smoke once it's going, although I suppose if every house in the middle of a city has one going it may add up, there's possibly a case for not even allowing the "exempt" appliances in cities. Don't burn unseasoned or damp wood either, that's a recipe for messing everything up (and eventually a chimney fire).

Thanks to previous alterations to the fireplace burning ordinary coal is a no-no for me, but I usually use the smokeless stuff, don't have to keep topping it up anywhere near as often as wood.

[Riedquat]

3 minutes ago, onlyme2 said:

Had a big bonfire the other week to get rid of green waste. Filled the valley with smoke for a few hours despite best efforts to get it to burn hot and efficiently..

We're charged for and limited to the number of green bin collections.

Now my van needs a permit (new rule this year for local site) and only a restricted to number of visits to refuse site are allowed per year, they will be saved for removing renovation waste from the house, of which there is going to be a large amount.

So, waste policy directly leads to more pollution in this case.

Garden waste, especially at this time of year, tends to be damp, which makes burning it without loads of smoke just about impossible. As long as it's not a regular occurence in the area I don't see it as being much of an issue (depending upon how many people are around you and which way the wind is blowing).

[SarahBell]

11 minutes ago, onlyme2 said:

Had a big bonfire the other week to get rid of green waste. Filled the valley with smoke for a few hours despite best efforts to get it to burn hot and efficiently..

Compost it.
 

[skomer]

6 hours ago, spyguy said:

Yeah. I heard this. I call BS.

Most of London is flats and the like. I just dont think there's that many wood burning stoves in London.

Ive never walked in a London street and smelt wood smoke - bar one wood fire Pizza place.

What London has is sh1t loads of diesel engines, thats what the pollution is.

 

Wood burners are now a very popular accessory in Yummy Mummy districts and with the Hipster colonisation in parts of East London.

Evening Standard reported the other day that there is a big problem with smoke in some suburbs..

And where I live, beyond London area, there are stories of mature street trees being felled illegally by gangs because there is now a big market for seasoned wood in London from all the wood burning stove owners.... 

[Riedquat]

17 minutes ago, skomer said:

Wood burners are now a very popular accessory in Yummy Mummy districts and with the Hipster colonisation in parts of East London.

Evening Standard reported the other day that there is a big problem with smoke in some suburbs..

And where I live, beyond London area, there are stories of mature street trees being felled illegally by gangs because there is now a big market for seasoned wood in London from all the wood burning stove owners.... 

Sounds like using the wrong wood (unseasoned) or unapproved stoves. I rather have my doubts about the liklihood of illegal gangs felling trees bothering to season the wood. Takes about two years in the air (or a lot less with a suitable kiln). A mature tree doesn't give you seasoned wood, it just gives you more wood.

[SarahBell]

13 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

Sounds like using the wrong wood (unseasoned) or unapproved stoves

Or the doors open.

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

Surely if they are to ban the diesel they need to ban the filth burning stove as well, otherwise what's the point ?

Sounds to me that they really need to do something about the pollution levels in London otherwise we are going to end up with killer smog again.

[spyguy]

My Aunt is from Wakefield.

She used o tell me of time before thaey it smoke free.

Everyone worked down a mine, so got free coal, so burnt loads.

Place was like Hell when the weather changed.

[winkie]

The golden rule is, never light your bonfire when you know your neighbours have their washing hanging out.....common courtesy.

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

36 minutes ago, winkie said:

The golden rule is, never light your bonfire when you know your neighbours have their washing hanging out.....common courtesy.

Does that mean car tyres, creosote and mounds of plastic are OK at other times ?

Wasn't there someone on here who had a shed full of used engine oil ?

[nome]

Heard earlier on today that wood burning stove manufacturers (who else?) are calling for a ''stove scrappage scheme''.. because apparently ''new stove technology'' is supposedly so much more efficient and environmentally friendly than old ones.

 

What utter rubbish.

[MrPin]

2 minutes ago, nome said:

Heard earlier on today that wood burning stove manufacturers (who else?) are calling for a ''stove scrappage scheme''.. because apparently ''new stove technology'' is supposedly so much more efficient and environmentally friendly than old ones.

 

What utter rubbish.

Anything to sell a replacement "thing"!

Scrappage is exactly that! Waste more, want more! I'm not exactly the most environmentally wise on Earth, but I hate the thought of "scrapping" something that works, for a bribe.

[onlyme2]

Re Composting, 

Tried that already, thick stemmed shrub and small tree cuttings, even shredded them first, problem is sheer volume mean poor miss of materials (plus lack of space - would have needed half a dozen composting bins and existing one already full. Plus a lot of thicker 4/5 inch tree trimmings which would take years to rot down.

One of the reasons for burning in winter i(even when wet) s zero likelihood of washing out etc and also sheer volume of it nowhere to store it to dry out for a summer burn.

[winkie]

15 minutes ago, MrPin said:

Anything to sell a replacement "thing"!

Scrappage is exactly that! Waste more, want more! I'm not exactly the most environmentally wise on Earth, but I hate the thought of "scrapping" something that works, for a bribe.

Agree completely, save on energy, cash over the years and pollution to boot, to make the new and on top the cost of destroying the old, .....my old boiler over 25 years old, works like a dream, many years left in it, built to last....must have saved hundreds over the years in cash to replace, pollution to create and landfill to dispose of......