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SarahBell

Warehouse of disabled people

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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/25/disabled-people-disabilities-health-care-homes


- care costs lower, more time per visit, communal facilities available, meals to the door for those not wanting to go to a cafe type eaterie, 
- transport links could be secured - could even be in town centres to ensure people can have active and fun life without needing to travel miles. And everyone knows transport links out of town are usually good, so you can go away from the town if you wish.


- disadvantages - you would have to move house. 

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Well .... as far as being treated like an object and 'staying in the house youve had children in' it depnds if you can afford to fund your ongoing care.

I come from a disperse, rural area. The heath visitors have to trek around in ~30miles/~20miles. Unless the route is carefully selected it can take 40 minutes between visits. It would be better for all involved in these people were housed somewhere central.

You can hardly say 'but moving me into a home robs me of my independence' Err -if you really on homecare you are not independent.

Me + my cohorts had to move from the area to look for work. I dont see why OAPS cannot be forced to move for care. They could fund the poor, underpaid homehelps out of their own pocket ....

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It's interesting the way the writer has thrown together disabled people who need care (who could be any age) and elderly people who have been "living in their own home for years".

I'm disabled and have received no home care in all apart from a period on "meals on wheels" that was so bad I just stopped eating regularly instead. I've had assessments when I have really needed help but been told that due to the large number of elderly people living alone I am a low priority.

The group I belong to for people with a neurological disease report the same result.

Young people in our groups are usually living at home with their parents. They don't receive care there as their parents are expected to do it.  If the disabled person is married or has a partner then they are expected to care for them even if they are out at work during the day.

Would be interesting to know the monies spent on the young disabled and the elderly. My suspicion from my own experience is that monies are being spent largely on elderly people wanting state help to stay in their own home alone but could be wrong. 

 

 

 

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This sounds like something that a Labour/Liberal focus group will come up with - solve the dying city centres and do some virtue signalling for the disabled. They keepp trying to get people into the city centres don't they but most people do not wish to live there so let's fill all the developments with disabled.

Methinks too many people see that there are grants and money to be made redeveloping empty shops into housing.

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19 minutes ago, Flopsy said:

It's interesting the way the writer has thrown together disabled people who need care (who could be any age) and elderly people who have been "living in their own home for years".

I'm disabled and have received no home care in all apart from a period on "meals on wheels" that was so bad I just stopped eating regularly instead. I've had assessments when I have really needed help but been told that due to the large number of elderly people living alone I am a low priority.

The group I belong to for people with a neurological disease report the same result.

Young people in our groups are usually living at home with their parents. They don't receive care there as their parents are expected to do it.  If the disabled person is married or has a partner then they are expected to care for them even if they are out at work during the day.

Would be interesting to know the monies spent on the young disabled and the elderly. My suspicion from my own experience is that monies are being spent largely on elderly people wanting state help to stay in their own home alone but could be wrong.

IME the level of state-funded support for older people wanting to stay in their own homes is low to non-existent; I have posted about this before.  This is not a privileged group.

Home care generally is poor and the expectation put upon people to be unpaid carers is massive with respite provision minimal despite the huge cost to the state if the unpaid carer just gave up.

Where the big money goes is on care homes for those who can no longer live in their own homes and, again as I have posted before, there is a looming disaster here as councils do not pay sufficient fees to care home providers leading them to cut costs to a minimum and cross subsidise with private payers' fees. There will be "exposing" documentaries again and again about the poor treatment of people in these homes because they just don't work as a business owing to the low council fees.  Some muppets have even responded by saying the councils should go back to running their own homes again which will cost so much more than paying a fair fee in the first place that they should just do this.

Boiled down the care of elderly and disabled people in thsi country is poor because it is underfunded and this underfunding costs a huge factor more when as a result they end up in care homes or hospitals.  It really is rubbish and it's frustrating because when I first dealt with it in 2008 it was so much better because councils paid a fair price for care home fees and visting care workers.  False economy and now you really do not want to grow old and inform or become disabled; not that anybody has that choice.

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45 minutes ago, Flopsy said:

Would be interesting to know the monies spent on the young disabled and the elderly. My suspicion from my own experience is that monies are being spent largely on elderly people wanting state help to stay in their own home alone but could be wrong. 


I know a young woman with home care visits. 15 mins tops, she's been told to have her hair cut short cos they don't have time to brush it. That's when they turn up, or pretend they can't get in to the building. 

The old lady next door but one had (before she finally went into care and died) 3 home visits a day. Lady came to get her out of bed at about 9.30, lunch done at about 1ish and then put back to bed at 5.30. Nappied all the time. Horrid sort of existance. Shoot me if I get like that. 

 

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22 hours ago, SarahBell said:


I know a young woman with home care visits. 15 mins tops, she's been told to have her hair cut short cos they don't have time to brush it. That's when they turn up, or pretend they can't get in to the building. 

The old lady next door but one had (before she finally went into care and died) 3 home visits a day. Lady came to get her out of bed at about 9.30, lunch done at about 1ish and then put back to bed at 5.30. Nappied all the time. Horrid sort of existance. Shoot me if I get like that. 

 

Hence the high suicide rate in my acquaintances from different neurological groups.  

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Society says we all need others to help care for us during certain periods of our life, out of love not for gain nor money.....a good book to read called : Being Mortal....Atul Gawande.......;)

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1 minute ago, winkie said:

Society says we all need others to help care for us during certain periods of our life, out of love not gain/money.....a good book to read called : Being Mortal....Atul Gawande.......;)

It was the way when once we all had family. :huh:

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4 minutes ago, MrPin said:

It was the way when once we all had family. :huh:

Two questions, first..Why no family?...second..Why no longer in many cases have the time, reason, ability, inclination or desire to care for own family?;)

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Just now, winkie said:

Two questions, first..Why no family?...second..Why no longer in many cases have the time, reason, ability, inclination or desire to care for own family?;)

People move further away from their roots now.

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3 minutes ago, MrPin said:

People move further away from their roots now.

......so parents can move closer to their children, the same as children can move closer to their parents....what are roots? your roots are where you feel safe and secure, that can be anywhere....;)

 

 

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Institutions are not the answer to anything.

Not sure what is. Maybe citizens income will allow more people to care for relatives themselves. That's if they want to in the first place. I've heard it said that the English are the least family- oriented people on earth.

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6 hours ago, honkydonkey said:

Children will be living with their parents forever now, so problem solved. 

When parents die that becomes a problem for the disabled child. If there is a home to sell there will be squabbles over the proceeds. The disabled adult could be passed to another family member but where to put them as houses becomes smaller and smaller. 

As home ownership becomes less common we have parents renting, add a disabled child then they lose their home on the death of parents and no one is going to rent to the single disabled adult. They can be evicted and are. 

All based on real people. Hence the high rate of suicide in my neurological groups. Just one of the factors. Lack of medical care through the NHS, lack of benefits, lack of employment at home or part time  and lack of hope through low medical research and other things add to that.

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17 hours ago, winkie said:

Two questions, first..Why no family?...second..Why no longer in many cases have the time, reason, ability, inclination or desire to care for own family?;)

It's not uncommon for family members to completely disown disabled and chronically sick people. There is a selfishness, an ability to blank out that they exist and a conspiracy of silence that sometimes occurs.

I know of one young man who was a member of our neurological group. His father left the family and started a new one. He is still a doctor. This particular young man, who had been a strapping rugby player, hanged himself. 

Don't know if there ever was a golden age of consistent family care. The workhouse records show older people, children, sick people being dumped there. 

There are incredible families who do look after there own sick and disabled. It's not consistent or reliable and not always based on wealth.

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On 1/25/2017 at 2:55 PM, Frank Hovis said:

Where the big money goes is on care homes for those who can no longer live in their own homes and, again as I have posted before, there is a looming disaster here as councils do not pay sufficient fees to care home providers leading them to cut costs to a minimum and cross subsidise with private payers' fees. There will be "exposing" documentaries again and again about the poor treatment of people in these homes because they just don't work as a business owing to the low council fees.  Some muppets have even responded by saying the councils should go back to running their own homes again which will cost so much more than paying a fair fee in the first place that they should just do this.

Thank you Frank for posting this. 

It sounds as if councils are not going to save money by placing disabled people in these homes and anyway, there is no where to place them?

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14 minutes ago, Flopsy said:

Thank you Frank for posting this. 

It sounds as if councils are not going to save money by placing disabled people in these homes and anyway, there is no where to place them?

They are not going to save money by this; home visits are not the cheapest option where there are complex needs requiring multiple visitors each day but for low / moderate needs they certainly are.

I saw hourly rates paid by the council drop from £20 to £13, lower now inflated up to £16.  This is a contact time rate so doesn't pay travel time or costs, roughly halve it to get to what the carer is paid. £20 was good and could have realistically been chopped to £18, but £13? No chance.

At the higher rate you could set up spaced rosters that allowed carers to spend a bit more time with the person, having a chat, not racing around all the time and cutting visits short. As well as job satisfaction for the carer, seeing that they were making a difference, we could pay them a reasonable, if not a great , wage.

When it dropped to £13 my company and many others just dropped the contracts. We knew it meant minimum wage, minimum care, corners cut.

There is a simple answer: councils increase their hourly rate paid for care back to the indexed level of 2008 and the care immediately becomes of a decent standard again.

This isn't about throwing money at an inefficient service; it is about getting the service you pay for and at the moment it is poor and that is neither the fault of the underpaid care workers nor the struggling care companies that remain in the sector.

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1 hour ago, Flopsy said:

It's not uncommon for family members to completely disown disabled and chronically sick people. There is a selfishness, an ability to blank out that they exist and a conspiracy of silence that sometimes occurs.

I know of one young man who was a member of our neurological group. His father left the family and started a new one. He is still a doctor. This particular young man, who had been a strapping rugby player, hanged himself. 

Don't know if there ever was a golden age of consistent family care. The workhouse records show older people, children, sick people being dumped there. 

There are incredible families who do look after there own sick and disabled. It's not consistent or reliable and not always based on wealth.

I have met both wives and husbands caring for their partners with disabilities and age dementia, often elderly themselves and all this puts a great extra strain on them, they are the silent careers, thousands of them out there, just trying to do their best with little help......Just to have a respite of a few hours once a week to go to the shops or meet up with friends is a godsend.....These people need to be recognised, appreciated and helped IMO.;) 

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