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cavity wall insulation next mis-selling scandal?

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Happening already around my way  regarding council housing, PU foam insulation having to be removed due to bridging problems caused by air pockets /insufficient filling of the cavity 

Whoever thought filling a cavity wall after it`s built with insulation of any kind was a good idea needs shooting, the cavity is there to keep the moisture from the outer skin permeating to the inner skin there`s a good reason wall ties are the shape they are 

Edited by long time lurking

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25 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

Question is by whom?

Most of the suppliers would probably go bust or have shut down already, though perhaps some insurance policies might still cover liability.

Oh let me guess, the taxpayer.

 

Well lets be fair they did pay for it to put there in the first place :D

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6 minutes ago, long time lurking said:

Happening already around my way  regarding council housing, PU foam insulation having to be removed due to bridging problems caused by air pockets /insufficient filling of the cavity 

Whoever thought filling a cavity wall after it`s built with insulation of any kind needs shooting the cavity is there to keep the moisture from the other skin permeating to the inner skin there`s a good reason wall ties are the shape they are 

The Property Doctor in the Telegraph has been banging on about this for years (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/property/advice/12092979/Jeff-Howell-cavity-wall-crisis-continues.html).

To be fair the problems seem to be reported mainly from the western side of Britain, so are almost certainly due to driving rain penetrating the outer wall, and bridging the gap via the insulation. I seem to recall that early types of foam insulation were worse, but I refused to have it done on my house because of the unknowns.

Trouble is I think that people who complain are told it must be condensation, and therefore their own fault, when that would appear to be unlikely.

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It was always a massive con. The stuff they use is industrial waste that someone would have to pay to dispose of. Solution: stick it in the plebs' houses for free and at the same time make out like you're doing them a favour. It's unclear whether the government have approved this fraud or whether it was their idea all along...

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4 hours ago, onlooker said:

The Property Doctor in the Telegraph has been banging on about this for years (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/property/advice/12092979/Jeff-Howell-cavity-wall-crisis-continues.html).

To be fair the problems seem to be reported mainly from the western side of Britain, so are almost certainly due to driving rain penetrating the outer wall, and bridging the gap via the insulation. I seem to recall that early types of foam insulation were worse, but I refused to have it done on my house because of the unknowns.

Trouble is I think that people who complain are told it must be condensation, and therefore their own fault, when that would appear to be unlikely.

Indeed, discussed on hpc before,

Could The Cavity-Wall Insulation Scandal Rival Ppi? - Dt Article

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/203295-could-the-cavity-wall-insulation-scandal-rival-ppi-dt-article/

it's a Daily Heil article recycling effort again .

 

Has anyone heard of any problems from brick walls being clad on the outside or inside with rigid foam insulation, then rendered ? 

This was also a big part of the "Green Deal " fiasco 

Edited by Saving For a Space Ship

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I had it done 5 years ago, no problems and the house is warmer. I live in Swansea which is mega wet (48 inches of rain annually)

BUT, the outside of my house is rendered in concrete and I had that painted at the same time, so the wall itself does not get damp inside.

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Watched them do next door in the summer, the surveyor asked if they could access my garage roof to do the gable end wall. When they had finished I checked the roof for damage and they hadn't been on it, hadn't drilled the wall and had just drilled a couple of easily visible holes at the back and not bothered with the rest. The conclusion I drew was that some insulation may have been put in at the front but the back and sides were not done.

As this is not paid for by the householder its kerching job done, tick in the box on database, energy performance certificate upgraded.

So even if it says the house is insulated there is a good chance it isn't.

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I do think people need to embark on research before doing anything from solar panels, wood chip burners, cavity insulation.

A while back one of my neighbours had his roof jet washed, and another then followed suite.

The guy doing the work then came round and asked if we'd like the same service for £2k.

I pointed out that jet washing roof tiles invalidates any warranty on them, and that by removing the hard surface you expose the softer material below the surface leaving it vulnerable to frost damage - probably halving the life of the roof.

My neighbour next door had also come to the same conclusion.

 

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4 hours ago, Saving For a Space Ship said:

Indeed, discussed on hpc before,

Could The Cavity-Wall Insulation Scandal Rival Ppi? - Dt Article

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/203295-could-the-cavity-wall-insulation-scandal-rival-ppi-dt-article/

it's a Daily Heil article recycling effort again .

 

Has anyone heard of any problems from brick walls being clad on the outside or inside with rigid foam insulation, then rendered ? 

This was also a big part of the "Green Deal " fiasco 

Not rigid foam ,that`s the second evolution of that system the first in that system is failing though ,which used rock wool boards instead of rigid foam 

Plenty of musty smelling new build  flats around Cardiff due to the rockwool board system

You will find almost all of Browns PFI hospitals used the rock wool board acrylic/silicone render system 

Edited by long time lurking

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3 hours ago, ChewingGrass said:

Watched them do next door in the summer, the surveyor asked if they could access my garage roof to do the gable end wall. When they had finished I checked the roof for damage and they hadn't been on it, hadn't drilled the wall and had just drilled a couple of easily visible holes at the back and not bothered with the rest. The conclusion I drew was that some insulation may have been put in at the front but the back and sides were not done.

As this is not paid for by the householder its kerching job done, tick in the box on database, energy performance certificate upgraded.

So even if it says the house is insulated there is a good chance it isn't.

One of the walls of my rented house is very close to my neighbours' garage, meaning that it could not be insulated from the outside.  A little research online suggested that leaving one wall uninsulated will render the whole exercise pointless - heat will just escape through the uninsulated wall.

The surveyor insisted that it's fine and they were going to insulate what they could.  As I didn't want to battle with mould, I have managed to convince my landlord that it's a bad idea.  

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1 hour ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

I do think people need to embark on research before doing anything from solar panels, wood chip burners, cavity insulation.

A while back one of my neighbours had his roof jet washed, and another then followed suite.

The guy doing the work then came round and asked if we'd like the same service for £2k.

I pointed out that jet washing roof tiles invalidates any warranty on them, and that by removing the hard surface you expose the softer material below the surface leaving it vulnerable to frost damage - probably halving the life of the roof.

My neighbour next door had also come to the same conclusion.

 

What idiot would think jet washing roof tiles is a good idea!!! I wonder how much water gets into the roof?

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1 hour ago, interestrateripoff said:

What idiot would think jet washing roof tiles is a good idea!

The guy next door to me who was sold the idea it would remove the moss which would get into his gutters and block them up. Needless to 18 months later there is just as much on the roof.

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10 hours ago, long time lurking said:

Happening already around my way  regarding council housing, PU foam insulation having to be removed due to bridging problems caused by air pockets /insufficient filling of the cavity 

Whoever thought filling a cavity wall after it`s built with insulation of any kind was a good idea needs shooting, the cavity is there to keep the moisture from the outer skin permeating to the inner skin there`s a good reason wall ties are the shape they are 

Exactly. Basic construction knowledge.  

 

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2 hours ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

I do think people need to embark on research before doing anything from solar panels, wood chip burners, cavity insulation.

A while back one of my neighbours had his roof jet washed, and another then followed suite.

The guy doing the work then came round and asked if we'd like the same service for £2k.

I pointed out that jet washing roof tiles invalidates any warranty on them, and that by removing the hard surface you expose the softer material below the surface leaving it vulnerable to frost damage - probably halving the life of the roof.

My neighbour next door had also come to the same conclusion.

 

This stuff is worth a look, assuming you have access to the roof. Got to Costco for the best price, under £25 and occasionally cheaper on offer.

 

http://www.wetandforget.co.uk

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2 hours ago, long time lurking said:

Not rigid foam ,that`s the second evolution of that system the first in that system is failing though ,which used rock wool boards instead of rigid foam 

Plenty of musty smelling new build  flats around Cardiff due to the rockwool board system

You will find almost all of Browns PFI hospitals used the rock wool board acrylic/silicone render system 

Believe me, it is down to the Architect's detail and the Contractor's due diligence.

There is nothing wrong with that product, if the design detail is correct and the installation is sound. The corner-cutting contractor tends to be the problem.

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The main cause of damp areas associated with cavity wall insulation is voids and the thermal bridging hot-spots that this causes. A wall tie is made of cold metal - it is shaped to ensure condensation drips into the cavity. Driving rain is an issue in some instances but voids are a big problem. Thermal bridging and interstitial condensation are overlooked by sensationalists who are obsessed with cavities being there to stop driving rain - that is only the case if you are filling the cavity with newspaper pulp!

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7 minutes ago, OurDayWillCome said:

The main cause of damp areas associated with cavity wall insulation is voids and the thermal bridging hot-spots that this causes. A wall tie is made of cold metal - it is shaped to ensure condensation drips into the cavity. Driving rain is an issue in some instances but voids are a big problem. Thermal bridging and interstitial condensation are overlooked by sensationalists who are obsessed with cavities being there to stop driving rain - that is only the case if you are filling the cavity with newspaper pulp!

Come again?

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7 hours ago, Saving For a Space Ship said:

Indeed, discussed on hpc before,

Could The Cavity-Wall Insulation Scandal Rival Ppi? - Dt Article

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/203295-could-the-cavity-wall-insulation-scandal-rival-ppi-dt-article/

it's a Daily Heil article recycling effort again .

 

Has anyone heard of any problems from brick walls being clad on the outside or inside with rigid foam insulation, then rendered ? 

This was also a big part of the "Green Deal " fiasco 

See my posts on the link above, read a book on thermal bridging - driving rain against impervious cavity wall fill will block driving rain just as a cavity will. It is all about voids and condensation.

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Interesting thread.

Does anybody know what would cause extreme condensation? To the point where most of the windows in a house are literally sopping wet? There is also black mildew forming on some walls.

The house is a 1930s semi.

Is it just the way they were built back them? Short of having to have a dehumidifier on for a couple of hours every day are there any other solutions? Any help much appreciated.

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52 minutes ago, StarsEnd said:

Interesting thread.

Does anybody know what would cause extreme condensation? To the point where most of the windows in a house are literally sopping wet? There is also black mildew forming on some walls.

The house is a 1930s semi.

Is it just the way they were built back them? Short of having to have a dehumidifier on for a couple of hours every day are there any other solutions? Any help much appreciated.

Brick internal walls are the worst....so anything pre 1960 is trouble. Breeze blocks and plasterboard help prevent moisture. My last house was a 1953 double brick skin bungalow. To make matters worse the previous owner had gone for double glazing and cavity wall insulation. I had to opt for a loft ventilation system to prevent moisture build up. It pushes a constant stream of air around the walls and windows, it works.

Present house is also a bungalow, not double glazed and breeze block and stone. It has cavity wall insulation but condensation is zero. I can have a long shower with windows shut, pans going on the cooker no condo.

Solid brick internal walls equals condo. especially if the cavity is filled.

Edited by crashmonitor

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24 minutes ago, crashmonitor said:

Brick internal walls are the worst....so anything pre 1960 is trouble. Breeze blocks and plasterboard help prevent moisture. My last house was a 1953 double brick skin bungalow. To make matters worse the previous owner had gone for double glazing and cavity wall insulation. I had to opt for a loft ventilation system to prevent moisture build up. It pushes a constant stream of air around the walls and windows, it works.

Present house is also a bungalow, not double glazed and breeze block and stone. It has cavity wall insulation but condensation is zero. I can have a long shower with windows shut, pans going on the cooker no condo.

Solid brick internal walls equals condo. especially if the cavity is filled.

Thanks CrashMonitor, that's some really useful info there. Are loft ventilation systems expensive to put in?

One thing I was looking at was a piece of equipment that doesn't look dissimilar to a bathroom extractor fan but is on permanently and has a built in heat exchanger; the idea being that it is constantly changing the air in the house but without losing all your heat. Not sure as o how effective this would be. It's a small semi so possibly it would make some difference. 

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1 hour ago, StarsEnd said:

Interesting thread.

Does anybody know what would cause extreme condensation? To the point where most of the windows in a house are literally sopping wet? There is also black mildew forming on some walls.

The house is a 1930s semi.

Is it just the way they were built back them? Short of having to have a dehumidifier on for a couple of hours every day are there any other solutions? Any help much appreciated.

Have you tried opening a window and ventilating the place? Are the fires boarded up? Old houses are supposed to be drafty. 

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