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The Big I've just let a Trump Rip Thread - economic visionary or economic decline


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The " british trump" was two decades ahead of his time and is no longer alive, it was James Goldsmith. He foresaw both the economic/social  problems that would be caused by free movement within the EU, as well as the permanent destruction of jobs in the West by offshoring to china.

Incidentally, I dislike trump. On top of his numerous character flaws he doesnt share Goldsmith's intellectual vision or genuine concern for society.

 

 

 

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If President Trump is the 'new messiah' (which I don't think he is), then he is going to find 'the powers that be' a little harder to play 'hard ball' with than anyone else he has before i.e. bullying Scottish tenants etc. I can see one of three things happening:-

1. They will 'dig up the dirt' and impeach him (this appears to be happening already) or there will be a 'trial by media' to get the same result.

2. He will 'join' their club, that is if he is not in the club already.

3. He will have an accident/period of ill health and so no longer be able to perform his duties as president.

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3 hours ago, zugzwang said:

But it was Reagan era 'conservatives' - in reality, market fundamentalists - who set us on our present course by simultaneously busting the budget and lowering taxes on the rich meaning that the accumulated difference had to be financed via international borrowing.

Trump and his property-developer/landlord father Fred, were always consumate political insiders, although they went to great lengths to disguise the fact, as this huge retrospective piece in the Village Voice makes clear. The outrageous property deals that made The Donald his first fortune and in the process helped bankrupt the city of New York would never have had his name on them otherwise.

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/how-a-young-donald-trump-forced-his-way-from-avenue-z-to-manhattan-7380462

like-father-1.jpg

No doubt that Trump is going to bust the budget like Reagan. The truth is every US President has been increasing the deficit  since the time of FDR apart from Bill Clinton . 

https://www.thebalance.com/deficit-by-president-what-budget-deficits-hide-3306151

I am not doubting Trumps commitment to the conservative Republican agenda in the US. What seems to have changed is the U.S. commitment to the neo-conservative globalist interventionist model of governance.  How that pans out remains to be seen.

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Independent: Donald Trump makes it harder for low-income families to buy a house in one of his first acts as President

Ignore the misleading headline: my brief reading of this suggests that the cut of the insurance premium would have potentially nationalised some of the losses on mortgage default. A cut could have potentially resulted in a house price increase, similar to our own "help to sell" subsidies.

Good start and hope for more of the same!

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8 hours ago, Bear Hug said:

Independent: Donald Trump makes it harder for low-income families to buy a house in one of his first acts as President

Ignore the misleading headline: my brief reading of this suggests that the cut of the insurance premium would have potentially nationalised some of the losses on mortgage default. A cut could have potentially resulted in a house price increase, similar to our own "help to sell" subsidies.

Good start and hope for more of the same!

I read it the same way - looks like Trump just kicked one of the props away. Interesting indeed.

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3 hours ago, Fully Detached said:

I read it the same way - looks like Trump just kicked one of the props away. Interesting indeed.

I should read more about his history, but if he made money in the past by buying in New York when (figuratively speaking) there was blood on the streets, then perhaps he would like another similar opportunity.

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7 hours ago, Toast said:

I should read more about his history, but if he made money in the past by buying in New York when (figuratively speaking) there was blood on the streets, then perhaps he would like another similar opportunity.

I may be massively mistaken but I get the impression that Trump is doing what he genuinely believes to be right rather than profitable - whether or not that proves to be a good thing very much remains to be seen, but  the status quo is untenable and he appears determined to bring change one way or the other. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

Edited by Fully Detached
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8 minutes ago, Fully Detached said:

I may be massively mistaken but I get the impression that Trump is doing what he genuinely believes to be right rather than profitable - whether or not that proves to be a good thing very much remains to be seen, but  the status quo is untenable and he appears determined to bring change one way or the other. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

We appear on the cusp of change for better or worse.  If France votes in Le Pen, it would appear the game will radically alter.

Trump certainly gives the impression he's going to do what he feels is right and in the long term interest of his country.  He might be right the trouble is change is likely to inflict short term pain, although if you are in the US rust belt they probably can't see things getting any worse and will feel they have nothing to lose as they don't have anything.  It will be interesting to see how his Presidency unfolds, however will he find that Congress and the Senate block his ambitions?

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1 minute ago, interestrateripoff said:

We appear on the cusp of change for better or worse.  If France votes in Le Pen, it would appear the game will radically alter.

Trump certainly gives the impression he's going to do what he feels is right and in the long term interest of his country.  He might be right the trouble is change is likely to inflict short term pain, although if you are in the US rust belt they probably can't see things getting any worse and will feel they have nothing to lose as they don't have anything.  It will be interesting to see how his Presidency unfolds, however will he find that Congress and the Senate block his ambitions?

God knows what's going to happen. But I take great delight in thinking, for the first time in as long as I can remember, that the only thing it won't be is more of the same.

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I seem to be very much in the minority in hoping Trump does well. I find it annoying that everybody at work and socially talks of him as some kind of evil being but I just don't see it. There are many of you on this site that seem to strongly dislike him and perhaps you could give your reasons. I don't tend to follow American politics so perhaps I have missed something particularly bad.

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http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote_blog/Alexander.Hamilton.Quote.7233


"All communities divide themselves into the few and the many.
The first are the rich and the well-born;
the other the mass of the people ... turbulent and changing,
they seldom judge or determine right.
Give therefore to the first class
a distinct, permanent share in the Government ...
Nothing but a permanent body can check the imprudence of democracy."

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6 minutes ago, Bulltulip said:

I seem to be very much in the minority in hoping Trump does well.

I don't think you are ... amongst posters on this site.

Personally, I hope he stirs things up with a genuine intention of bringing productive growth back to his country, so in that sense I genuinely wish him well. I was not in favour of either candidate, since Clinton represented, to my mind, the worst of corrupt cronyism; and I have no faith that anyone who has become wealthy beyond the dreams of avarice would have done so without fundamentally parasitising the working multitudes. Billionaires are not the people I would look for if I thought wealth redistribution was a pressing necessity.

I was happy that Trump won, rather than Clinton - but only because I'm at that dangerously irrational stage where I think any change is worth a try. It would have been nice had he been intelligent and articulate (I admire Obama as a gifted orator), and a bit less of a crass caricature of the rich, but I'll take what's going, and at least I can look forward to being entertained by politics for once.

So, best of luck to him, and to America, but I remain sceptical of his good intentions.

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A twit. I'll give him a chance. At least he'll do something different, for better or worse.

Yet he is necessary for the left in both the US and UK to f'in get organised, stop sucking at the teat of the neo-liberal/closet tory consensus makers and stop being run by celebrity-identity void, stupid, vapid SJWs fighting with mummy and daddy's money against mummy and daddy.

I live in hope.

If Trump plays out his rapprochement with Putin, then Putin will be judged as one of the finest leaders ever to have played the chess-game that is Geo-Politics: Upon being seemingly hemmed in by the commie-hating hawks in the US causing strife in his country and in their natural spheres of influence in ex-soviet states, he's managed to literally come up Trumps by using the US's tactics of destabilisation, against them.

Genius.

 

Edited by Tapori
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I heard somewhere (ie not BBC or the usual MSM) that Trump has wanted to be recognised by the American elite, but they dont see him as their type hence he might have a chip on his shoulder about them.  He ought to be in the elite club, but can now wield power against them.

Another thing the MSM dont mention is his dislike of the super-sensitive-snowflake-in-their-safe-zone-SJWs (sorry I don't know how else to describe this group) and how the public are tired of it and he represents the start of the end of it (this might be a very US issue than ours).

Funny thing though, imagine if he is successful at getting jobs back and rebalancing power surely people in our country will start asking "where is our DT?" and how do we change our party system to allow an outsider to come and shake things up?

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22 hours ago, MrXxx said:

If President Trump is the 'new messiah' (which I don't think he is), then he is going to find 'the powers that be' a little harder to play 'hard ball' with than anyone else he has before i.e. bullying Scottish tenants etc. I can see one of three things happening:-

1. They will 'dig up the dirt' and impeach him (this appears to be happening already) or there will be a 'trial by media' to get the same result.

2. He will 'join' their club, that is if he is not in the club already.

3. He will have an accident/period of ill health and so no longer be able to perform his duties as president.

From what I've read/seen of his speeches.

1. Establishment / Media have already tried that right through the campaign, not sure about the Mafia angle though.

2. Don't think so, seems alike a person who will bear a grudge and take it personal even if tempted to cuddle up to them.

3. Maybe, I think a financial takedown of the economy on his watch would be a preferred route.

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57 minutes ago, Bulltulip said:

I seem to be very much in the minority in hoping Trump does well. I find it annoying that everybody at work and socially talks of him as some kind of evil being but I just don't see it. There are many of you on this site that seem to strongly dislike him and perhaps you could give your reasons. I don't tend to follow American politics so perhaps I have missed something particularly bad.

A lot of people suffer from easily-led thinking.

I made no secret of wanting Trump in. The looks I got from people who have known me for 15+ years....

It's like all of a sudden I was a racist womaniser, despite the actual experience of me being nothing of the sort.

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6 minutes ago, Noallegiance said:

A lot of people suffer from easily-led thinking.

I made no secret of wanting Trump in. The looks I got from people who have known me for 15+ years....

It's like all of a sudden I was a racist womaniser, despite the actual experience of me being nothing of the sort.

Yep, I was cheering him on too.  America has imploded for a lot of ordinary people.  Factories shut, house price crash (yeah I know we all want one on here, but there are swathes of America in the old industrial heartland that is unsellable, not a good place to be when the music stops), food banks.  It's already gone Pete tong so let's see if his non-politician, straight talking approach can work.

for what it's worth, I don't think he is in it for the money.  He is a billionaire apparently and is 70.  No pockets in shrouds so he ain't taking it with him.

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41 minutes ago, nightowl said:

I heard somewhere (ie not BBC or the usual MSM) that Trump has wanted to be recognised by the American elite, but they dont see him as their type hence he might have a chip on his shoulder about them.  He ought to be in the elite club, but can now wield power against them.

Another thing the MSM dont mention is his dislike of the super-sensitive-snowflake-in-their-safe-zone-SJWs (sorry I don't know how else to describe this group) and how the public are tired of it and he represents the start of the end of it (this might be a very US issue than ours).

Funny thing though, imagine if he is successful at getting jobs back and rebalancing power surely people in our country will start asking "where is our DT?" and how do we change our party system to allow an outsider to come and shake things up?

How very dare you.

I'm putting you on ignore and no-platforming you right this second.

I am a beautiful unique snowflake. Don't tell me I'm simply H20. You elemental fascist.

:D

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1 hour ago, Bulltulip said:

I seem to be very much in the minority in hoping Trump does well. I find it annoying that everybody at work and socially talks of him as some kind of evil being but I just don't see it. There are many of you on this site that seem to strongly dislike him and perhaps you could give your reasons. I don't tend to follow American politics so perhaps I have missed something particularly bad.

For me its the way Trump lies and lies - he ignores any data that does not suit his purposes to then invent facts, conspiracy theories and lash out with imagined stories against his opponents.

This is the way that dictators govern.

Anyone who knows anything about Putin knows how he has bullied the media, killed and emprisoned his opponents, and transformed Russia into a fear-driven dictatorship - Trump appears to be aiming to operate using the same playbook, which is very scary.

(disclaimer, I do not pretend to be an expert on Russia, but have spent time there and know enough people working there or the ex-USSR States to be aware of some of their fears - and also why some of Putin's seeming strength is popular)

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Aren't any of you though, worried by the people he's put in charge? That new Education head is absolutely terrible. Trump might well be sincere, but those greedy psychotic Republicans who now control the key levers of power, are surely gonna want to turn the US into Omnicorp. Inc. no?

Very worried about his Israeli foreign policy. That could well be a flashpoint for WW3. I think Putin will have to rein him in or the Knesset will have to get rid of Bibi following their investigation.

We live in interesting times.

Edited by Tapori
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3 minutes ago, london_thirtythree said:

For me its the way Trump lies and lies - he ignores any data that does not suit his purposes to then invent facts, conspiracy theories and lash out with imagined stories against his opponents.

This is the way that dictators govern.

Anyone who knows anything about Putin knows how he has bullied the media, killed and emprisoned his opponents, and transformed Russia into a fear-driven dictatorship - Trump appears to be aiming to operate using the same playbook, which is very scary.

(disclaimer, I do not pretend to be an expert on Russia, but have spent time there and know enough people working there or the ex-USSR States to be aware of some of their fears - and also why some of Putin's seeming strength is popular)

At least we can spot his lies as the establishment highlights them for us.  The rest of the politicians? They all cover each other's backs and lie with impunity 

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1 minute ago, Tapori said:

Aren't any of you though, worried by the people he's put in charge? 

We live in interesting times.

That we do.

I could be worried once any undesirable action begins snowballing.

For now, I'm content that Hillary isn't in. Did anyone else clock how fake and depressed/on a different planet she looked on Friday?

Not a psychologically well person. I've seen that vacant pretend look on people before. It's not a sign of a sound mind.

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