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jackwhiteisgod

Who here is 30-35 and lives in london

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Some interesting things I've noticed since the Christmas break. I'm 29 this year, as are most of my friends. My two flatmates (a couple) have decided over the holidays to move back to ireland, mainly due to being sick to the back teeth of shit flats, shit landlords, and no sense of what will happen in the future (we had problems with damp in our 1600pcm flat). I don't blame them. Then tonight I was doing sport with another friend who said that now she is leaving to bristol because she is sick of her flatmates. I myself want to leave due to insecurity of PRS except that I really love my work here and do have a good (though dwindling) social network. given that I'm single and I refuse to live with strangers and a one bed is min £1200, I might just pack it in myself when the flatties leave if I can't find another friend in the same position . All these people myself included earn at least 35-40k. 

So my question is, on this site, who our age is still here, and why, what future do you see? Are you holding on for the crash? Will 2017 be the year? Is it worth hanging on? Or should we all just say f*k it and move out to somewhere where things are vaguely sane.

From my point of view it's getting to the point where the only people here are 45+ bought when it was still reasonable and 25- partying and not really giving much thought to the future. Which begs the question, how will companies survive without their most productive staff I.e. those at peak earning which i would guess is age 30-35?

Hive mind - what say you?

 

Thanks

 

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I don't know why you're still there, honestly you're a rent slave! You need to have a good work/life balance and enjoying your job isn't a reason to live your whole life on the bones of your backside! £1200/month here in East Yorkshire will get you a 5 bed detached with a big garden with change left over. We rent a 3 bed semi, approx 1100 Square Feet with large garden for £675 and we're still having holidays, meals out and putting a couple of grand away each month for a deposit when the time comes. If I were you I'd be looking for a job elsewhere. You can still get into London on the train in 2 or 3 hours from most parts of the country if you wanted to see friends and relatives at the weekend.

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Im 35. Wish Id moved 3 years ago. Earn very good money. But exactly the same situation shit flats, long commute. No personal space. Interesting work and good progression, but whats the point if you go home to a shit hole and London eats your money up so you never save anything?

On the friend side of things. My network is dwindling faster than I can replace them. I cant actually be arsed in investing the time to meet new people because I fear they are just passing through also. So there is a perpetual cycle of new friends and shit flats. Need to break this cycle asap and leave.

 

In your circumstances, I would say stay until you have a set of skills that can give you a good standard of living outside of london. Then leave.

Edited by 999house

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9 hours ago, electrogear said:

I don't know why you're still there, honestly you're a rent slave! You need to have a good work/life balance and enjoying your job isn't a reason to live your whole life on the bones of your backside! £1200/month here in East Yorkshire will get you a 5 bed detached with a big garden with change left over. We rent a 3 bed semi, approx 1100 Square Feet with large garden for £675 and we're still having holidays, meals out and putting a couple of grand away each month for a deposit when the time comes. If I were you I'd be looking for a job elsewhere. You can still get into London on the train in 2 or 3 hours from most parts of the country if you wanted to see friends and relatives at the weekend.

Ive decided that I never really see much of London during the week due to long hours and the commute. So what is the point of being here? May as well move outside and come in on the weekend if need be. Rather than bear the costs and conjestion of living in London.

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The thing the 30-35 year olds are realising is that they have been played by corporates and the older generation. Starting salaries haven't really changed much since 2003 for most staff in London, yet inflation (and house inflation is higher) maybe a compounded 80%. You are all working for practically minimum wage and you're accepting it so the market continues. People don't seem to know the difference between nominal value and real value. They think a high salary actually translates to a better quality of life, and their maths skills are woeful to calculate this (again not everyone but a significant proportion). In my view, children of this generation have grown up with no critical thinking skills, they believe what instituions say, rather than use imperical evidence to look at what the truth might be. As such, they have become fanatical about any ideas insitutions tell them are a good idea without understanding the consequences. e.g

safe spaces (not hearing the other side of an argument gives you no ability to deal with the reality of an imperfect world); 

 that women should always work rather than look after our future generations (doubling workers, leads to wages halving - notice how it takes two to buy a house);

always buy a house (housing value is relative, it is an asset like any other, they are overpriced against other assets);

save in a bank account (this will always lead to the worst return but make a lot of money for banks),  

Leaving the EU would actually help this situation (I think there a good and bad points before people kick off).Ironically most young people actually believe the newspapers (owned by billionaires) and a leftist media where no on one has had to actually compete in a real business relying instead on office politics and the taxpayer instead, the one who has borrowed on our behalf every year because they can't balance a budget. Do you think any country can sustain that for long?

Unfortunately the economic system changed in 1981 and become based on debt (your debt, from your future earnings) and the older generations had a great time on it assuming they would expand the ponzi system (i.e have more children in each generation to keep paying for the top of the pyramid), unfortunately they all got a bit selfish and having children became more expensive for the middle classes so people stopped.  The government has yet to realise that the "great productivity problem" they face is because there is a lack of hope. It is hope and asperation that creates the willingness to work for something. Working whilst knowing that your life will be no better just means that most people turn up and do nothing but push paper at work. They don't create or improve anything and so the economy resembles a government enterprise - paper pushing with no real goals but keeping the status quo.

If you live in London and don't earn at least 80K with the prospect of earning more you should leave, Bristol, Manchester, Birmingham, Edinburgh, Bournemouth all have better quality of life. Your pay will fall in nominal terms i.e the number will be lower but you will be able to afford more e.g housing, going out, saving for a property of your own (if you wish to). A lot of banks and other large companies are near-shoring their operations to save money into these towns.

Edited by katchytitle

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I am a little bit above the age group mentioned here, but the thing that always surprises me is that people feel that they have to live in London to work in London.

I work in central London, but live a 20 minute commute from Waterloo. It is still technically London where I am but far out enough that £1,500 a month actually gets you a nice 2 bed flat rather than a cr*p one, and with a commute comparable to people living a lot further in.

If you can manage another 20 minutes on the train, you are down to about £800 for that type of flat, but obviously commuting cost is higher.

There are a lot of places within a 40-45 minute commute of London which are reasonably cheap and still allow people to access London wages if their industry doesn't pay the same levels outside. I can't see any reason to live in the centre unless you find it vital to be right on top of all of the bars and entertainment.

Edited by worried1

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It depends if you can find reliable work in the new target area, a nice home and a happy quality of life.

We left London and have moved area twice in 5 years. Our first move was to a northern city. My partner was offered a job there. I couldn't find work at all in my field. Jobs were very much for the locals. OK, we had a nice flat but we didn't want a big commute and houses were just not being built. There were locals with great lives but for incomers very little left. 

Then my partner was made redundant. We both searched for work but nothing.

My feeling is that homes in areas with a good lifestyle and abundant jobs are getting pretty full. It may be different to the locals with jobs and houses and who know the area but not newcomers.

We moved back to the edges of the "south east" where there were jobs. House prices here have skyrocketed in the last few years. The London diaspora is getting bigger and bigger.

I'm disabled and also need to factor in accessible transport and hospitals.

It's true that there are areas commutable to some parts of London. I used to work by Waterloo station and that opened up an area of potential commuting. Then my office was moved to another part of London, it became a train journey and then a tube one. The commuting time increased. I had to find a new job or move house. 

Stability doesn't happen as much now as it did in my parents time.  A job loss can mean the difference to commuting ease or hell. We can't build our lives in the same way.

 

Edited by Flopsy

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We left about 4 years ago. We had an 18 month old and another on the way. It broke my heart to see our son in full-time daycare and the cost of said daycare broke my wallet. When the second came along it was clear my partner would need to stop working to look after them. We were living in a fairly crap 2-bed house in south London.

I looked at the usual commuter places (Northampton, MK) but the cost of a season ticket pretty much makes up for any saving in housing costs.

So, we moved to Yorkshire to be close to family, free childcare etc. I was lucky in that I got a job paying the same as my London wage, I think having worked for a multinational in London went down well. My partner still works for her London employer and goes down for meetings every other week. The kids spend a lot of time with their grandparents and less time in daycare. The quality of early-years schooling and daycare is better, in my experience.

We bought a good quality four-bed detached house. Mortgage payments are low giving us a lot of disposable, although I am ploughing cash into the pension at the moment. All things that would have been impossible in London. Commute 30 mins each way on the motorway. We have been lucky and going back is unthinkable now.

Negatives - my partner misses her friends in London and her career has stagnated. if I lose my job I will probably have to take on a longer commute. My job doesn't carry the same prestige as before. All worth it to give our kids (and ourselves) a better quality of life.

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I'm older, but 30-35 is the turning point for most living London (if not natives). Usually, having a nipper or wanting to have one is a turning point for many (especially when combined with awful accommodation, living standards and expense.  I left aged 35, and managed to take my job with me.  Now live in a paid off modest house with generally lower living costs. I'm regularly in London for work, but I don't really miss the place. 

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6 hours ago, exlondoner said:

We left about 4 years ago. We had an 18 month old and another on the way. It broke my heart to see our son in full-time daycare and the cost of said daycare broke my wallet. When the second came along it was clear my partner would need to stop working to look after them. We were living in a fairly crap 2-bed house in south London.

I looked at the usual commuter places (Northampton, MK) but the cost of a season ticket pretty much makes up for any saving in housing costs.

So, we moved to Yorkshire to be close to family, free childcare etc. I was lucky in that I got a job paying the same as my London wage, I think having worked for a multinational in London went down well. My partner still works for her London employer and goes down for meetings every other week. The kids spend a lot of time with their grandparents and less time in daycare. The quality of early-years schooling and daycare is better, in my experience.

We bought a good quality four-bed detached house. Mortgage payments are low giving us a lot of disposable, although I am ploughing cash into the pension at the moment. All things that would have been impossible in London. Commute 30 mins each way on the motorway. We have been lucky and going back is unthinkable now.

Negatives - my partner misses her friends in London and her career has stagnated. if I lose my job I will probably have to take on a longer commute. My job doesn't carry the same prestige as before. All worth it to give our kids (and ourselves) a better quality of life.

Depends how much prestige (keeping up with the Jones?) is important to your quality of life.

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Ive just got a new job in home counties. Managed to get a slight pay increase compared to London job. Gonna rent a 2 bed for 1000pm. Which is steep, but bearing in mind I paid 900 quid a month for a room in London it seems a good deal.

There is also the added bonus that I can walk to work in 20-25 mins and there is a quick train to London if I need to go crazy on the weekend. 

Edited by 999house

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I'm 31 and in a London Borough... I truly do believe there will be a correction if not a crash and I live in hope that it will be in the near future. I'm here because I can't express in real life my hopes and thoughts without seeming like a bitter **** wishing for a HPC which would leave the majority of my friends in deep for being silly (creditworthy) enough to buy into the bubble in the last few years.

 

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19 hours ago, 999house said:

Ive just got a new job in home counties. Managed to get a slight pay increase compared to London job. Gonna rent a 2 bed for 1000pm. Which is steep, but bearing in mind I paid 900 quid a month for a room in London it seems a good deal.

There is also the added bonus that I can walk to work in 20-25 mins and there is a quick train to London if I need to go crazy on the weekend. 

Congrats on the new job.

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I recently turned 30, have been living in London for 8 years. I started looking at buying a couple years ago but within 6 months I realised I wasn't going to buy. Only a couple of my friends have managed to buy in London - one of them earns £100k/year and managed to scrape enough together to get a 1-bed flat in bow, the others, a couple with average salaries were able to get a deposit together and buy a tiny 2-bed in Charlton. My other friends are either still living with family in London/commuting from parents place in SE, or renting 1-bed flats as a couple or flat shares if single. I'd say over 50% are actively looking to move out of London in the next 1-3 years.

My situation is a little different to my friends. My aunt owns a flat in Hackney, and my partner and I pay her a lower than market rent, but still a substantial amount for us  (£1,600 a month). I also received an inheritance of £90k about 1.5 years ago from my dad - which prompted us to start looking at somewhere to buy. We are in a much better position than most our age, we don't need to worry about a landlord kicking us out, and we could afford to borrow about £300k.

After many viewings, we decided that the places on for around £350-400k were not worth the money - either 1-bed flats in the less-nice parts of Zone 3, or 2-bed flats in the rougher areas of Zone 4. As well as not being able to find somewhere in our price range that we would enjoy living, our main worry is that prices will go down and we will lose the ~25% equity and get stuck there. 

Plans for the future are to sit tight for the next couple years. We are both doing well in our jobs and making the most of the opportunities that London provides for our careers, however, neither of us will ever be earning 6-figures. Most likely we will move out to Manchester, we are focused on making sure we will have transferable jobs, or be able to go freelance or work from home in a couple years. I think it would take a crash of about 50% for us to consider buying in London.

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Thanks for all the feed back, I'm still undecided, I have about two weeks before I need to bite the bullet and prepare to move to yet another flat for 12 months or give my boss his notice. Sadly I don't have a 90k inheritance, but I've saved 30+k. That means my Max is about 200k, which, right now get me Jack-sh*t. In London. Glasgow however; beautiful 2or 3 bed in Victorian grandeur, house full of nice furniture and a car. Might wait one more year, save another 8k or so, finish up my projects at work.. hmm 

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4 hours ago, jackwhiteisgod said:

Thanks for all the feed back, I'm still undecided, I have about two weeks before I need to bite the bullet and prepare to move to yet another flat for 12 months or give my boss his notice. Sadly I don't have a 90k inheritance, but I've saved 30+k. That means my Max is about 200k, which, right now get me Jack-sh*t. In London. Glasgow however; beautiful 2or 3 bed in Victorian grandeur, house full of nice furniture and a car. Might wait one more year, save another 8k or so, finish up my projects at work.. hmm 

Happily you don't have a 90k inheritance. Because if you did it would mean you had lost a loved one.

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1 hour ago, CunningPlan said:

Happily you don't have a 90k inheritance. Because if you did it would mean you had lost a loved one.

Thanks for this CP. I'm sure jackwhiteisgod didn't mean it, but I have had quite a few people tell me how lucky I am to have such a windfall so young - neglecting that I'd lost both parents in my 20s. Would much rather not have the money.

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On 1/19/2017 at 10:13 AM, Lonwontbuy said:

I recently turned 30, have been living in London for 8 years. I started looking at buying a couple years ago but within 6 months I realised I wasn't going to buy. Only a couple of my friends have managed to buy in London - one of them earns £100k/year and managed to scrape enough together to get a 1-bed flat in bow, the others, a couple with average salaries were able to get a deposit together and buy a tiny 2-bed in Charlton. My other friends are either still living with family in London/commuting from parents place in SE, or renting 1-bed flats as a couple or flat shares if single. I'd say over 50% are actively looking to move out of London in the next 1-3 years.

My situation is a little different to my friends. My aunt owns a flat in Hackney, and my partner and I pay her a lower than market rent, but still a substantial amount for us  (£1,600 a month). I also received an inheritance of £90k about 1.5 years ago from my dad - which prompted us to start looking at somewhere to buy. We are in a much better position than most our age, we don't need to worry about a landlord kicking us out, and we could afford to borrow about £300k.

After many viewings, we decided that the places on for around £350-400k were not worth the money - either 1-bed flats in the less-nice parts of Zone 3, or 2-bed flats in the rougher areas of Zone 4. As well as not being able to find somewhere in our price range that we would enjoy living, our main worry is that prices will go down and we will lose the ~25% equity and get stuck there. 

Plans for the future are to sit tight for the next couple years. We are both doing well in our jobs and making the most of the opportunities that London provides for our careers, however, neither of us will ever be earning 6-figures. Most likely we will move out to Manchester, we are focused on making sure we will have transferable jobs, or be able to go freelance or work from home in a couple years. I think it would take a crash of about 50% for us to consider buying in London.

This is pretty much my situation. For that sort of money the flats were abysmal and well over priced. Ive now moved out of London. Have a garden, space, quick walk to work. I also notice that people speak good English so you can have a bit of banter without someone looking at you blankly. The thing that worries me is if everyone else does the same and push the prices up around the home counties. Its affordable for me now, even if a little pricey. 

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On 1/20/2017 at 1:38 AM, Lonwontbuy said:

Thanks for this CP. I'm sure jackwhiteisgod didn't mean it, but I have had quite a few people tell me how lucky I am to have such a windfall so young - neglecting that I'd lost both parents in my 20s. Would much rather not have the money.

Same here

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Living in west London, renting with three other people, all over 30. 

On an in-house academy course at the moment which finishes in 2018 and means I can then work anywhere in the UK. 

I rarely get into central London (and all the amenities it has) so there's no difference really to living in any other urban area in the Uk. Except everything is twice the price.

I'll stay 2 months after I qualify in 2018 to cover the £4k financial penalty for not completing the contract (if they reinforce that) then bugger off and not look back.

 

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Hello!  As my name suggests, am a Londoner and 33.

Have lived in London for the last 11 years since moving here from 'up North, and have loved pretty much every minute of it, have had some of the best of times.

However am having the same dilemma's - have a good bunch of friends here, and love living in London (am a bit weird in that I love the energy of the city, and being around big groups of people).  My friends are divided between those who will or have settled in London, or those who will be priced out and are looking elsewhere.  However for the moment it is good being able to catch up with friends when we like, which we would lose if we moved on.

Being based in London is good for my business, but not absolutely crucial, and so am having similar reservations about whether all of it is worth it.

The missus and me share a 1-bed for 1400pcm, is a nice gaff, and is affordable whilst also saving for a deposit as both the missus and me are in decent jobs - and so by now we pretty much have a 20% or 25% deposit together, however the sums for buying a 2-bed in London are eye-watering and seem a massive waste of money, particularly when you look at what you get for your money!

I expect property to fall in value in my lifetime so buying a place in London seems the forever home rather than a step on the much maligned ladder - so buying in London seems a huge risk.  But then holding our deposit in cash also seems a risk from the way our economy looks.

So.. conflicted..

I think emotionally I would want to continue living in London, and have the support networks round here for any future kids, but deep down I have that feeling that its terminally unaffordable and a bit of a trap.  On that side however I do wonder who is buying any of this London Property to keep it proped up.

Suppose none of the above is an answer, but your certainly not alone.

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On 16/01/2017 at 10:21 PM, jackwhiteisgod said:

All these people myself included earn at least 35-40k. 

 

If you're in you're about to hit or are in your 30s and are earning £35k in London you need to realise in London terms you've failed and need to get out of there ASAP. London is priced only for the super rich, immigrants who serve the super rich and are happy to bedshare and finally for people who bought their house well over a decade ago. 

Edited by gibbon

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