The transgender thread

[Frank Hovis]

I wish you all to start calling me Arabella.

In my mostly via the media experience there seem to be the following types:

1. Chromosonal intersex: a medical fact that means people can go either way and IMO they should be medically facilitated to do this. Jackie off Paddington Green was like this.

2. Stress haven: David Shayler, Chelsea Manning seeing becoming a woman as a way of escaping the huge pressure they're under.

3. The grass is greener: I think we've all (wrongly) thought at some point how easy it must be being the other sex.  For some people this becomes an obsession.

4. Taking homosexuality to an extreme: they find their own sex attractive but don't want to be seen as "just" gay so want to become the other sex to normalise this.

 

I now know two people who are in the early stage of transitioning. One is a 3 and the other a 4 from my list.

Now who should actually receive NHS funded treatment? I go with all of them, but meaning medical treatment for 1 and counselling for 2 through 4.

[Dorkins]

Just like your parents/grandparents' generations were left behind by homophobia becoming socially unacceptable, you are being left behind by transphobia becoming socially unacceptable.

[spyguy]

Not sure.

I read a report that said theres quite a few who ask to go back which, to me, points to a mental issue or attention seeking.

I can understand intersex chromosonal issues.

Ive no met a homosexual man who wants to be a woman.

How much of  sex change is a bodymod like tatoos or those stupid peircing?

Bit like transexuals. Why do 40 yo trannies dress like a 20 yo prossies rather than a 40yo woman?

[This time]

It's not the same at all Dorkins. There's a growing backlash against the transgender agenda from people who were previously pro-trans. Most trans men (for they are men, not women) suffer from an extreme sexual fetish which they expect society to play along with for their sexual gratification. These men are heterosexual and mostly keep their penises but expect lesbians to sleep with them and expect access to spaces where women are in a state of undress. There are also a minority of trans men who are gay and transition due to internalised or external homophobia (e.g. gay men in Iran if caught have a choice to transition, flee the country or be executed). 

Then there is the transing of children which is pushed so much by the transgender lobby (which is mostly the heterosexual men with penises) in order to deflect attention from the fact that most trans men are sexual deviants. Many trans children are showing early signs of homosexuality so are transed by their homophobic parents. Some have parents that suffer from Münchhausen's by proxy - transing your child is the perfect way to get attention from doctors with the bonus that you don't need to secretly poison your child (the doctors will prescribe the poison for you). In teenagers and young adults trans operates as a cult - young people who feel different (which is most young people) are indoctrinated in internet chat rooms or by people they know in real life. Young people with ASD are particularly vulnerable to this. Young women who have suffered sexual abuse, particularly at around the age of puberty are also extremely vulnerable. 

[Bossybabe]

IMO, the NHS should be for people who are actually ill. Ergo, such issues as transgender should be dealt with by the mental health services. If they want to change sex enough, let them pay for the true cost. I believe the same about infertility issues in this grossly overpopulated world. 

[spyguy]

The kids thing makes me jncomgortable.

There are a lot of parents who sre on the Muncheusan by proxy. You see it at my kids school. Lumpen, useless women whove done nothing. Then get attention via the kids.

The bulk are just banging on about autism or this or that. I can see extreme cases where theyll latch onto trnas stuff. Most kids will want to please Mum so will have been prefed answers and crap. Total disaster.

Sadly, unless its a chromosone issue, most people could only trans before puberty. But thats too young an age for such amajor event.

[winkie]

The human mind is very complex.....Leaving gender aside, there are plenty of people who do not like living inside their own heads, like their own bodies for reasons others would not see as anything wrong.....So it is about loving who you are, and others accepting who others are......What people seem to think is that there is some magic pill, potion or operation that can take the pain away, when this is often not something that will make what is thought of as bad, good.......Like saying, wherever you go you take yourself with you.

[This time]

2 minutes ago, spyguy said:

 

Sadly, unless its a chromosone issue, most people could only trans before puberty. But thats too young an age for such amajor event.

They try to get around the issue with puberty blockers. The idea is that when the child begins puberty they start taking hormone blockers so that they can make the choice when they're older to go through normal puberty or transition. Sounds great in theory but the reality isn't so good. The first problem is that these are very powerful drugs and can be hazardous to health. The second problem is that they can cause sterility (which is one of the main arguments against just using cross sex hormones in the first place). The biggest problem though is that children need to go through puberty in order to become mentally and emotionally mature. Put an 11 year old on puberty blockers and five years later they're still mentally 11 years old. For this reason, close to 100% of children who are put on puberty blockers go on to take cross sex hormones.

[The Masked Tulip]

I think it is a highly complicated subject.

I suspect that there are millions and millions of people who, for whatever reason, have the wrong gender body for the gender of their brain. I also personally think that sexual gender is far more fluid than most realise.

The stress factor is a biggie - there is a very high percentage of ex-military pilots who go down this road. I suspect that it is all about too much pressure in the job and looking around at the kind of women who are attracted to military pilots and thinking, subconciously, that the stress will disappear if the man becomes one of them.

Ditto the many men in other high-pressure jobs who seem to embark down this road.

I have read and researched a great deal on the subject and, frankly, it is brutal major surgery that people endure. Maybe, in some Star Trek future where they can manipulate and change DNA in a few hours, it would make sense but, for now, I think people who go down this road are very brave on a number of levels. Having had my usual angst about a dental check-up yesterday morning I strongly suspect that I could not go down the willy surgery or the breast removal stuff. It seems very brutal.

It is worth having a look on youtube at the MTF and FTM transistion videos - some of them are fascinating in how dramatically the hormones can change people physucally. It is also worth having a read of some of the personal experiences of how the hormones change people's thought processes and reactions.

 

 

[This time]

7 minutes ago, winkie said:

The human mind is very complex.....Leaving gender aside, there are plenty of people who do not like living inside their own heads, like their own bodies for reasons others would not see as anything wrong.....So it is about loving who you are, and others accepting who others are......What people seem to think is that there is some magic pill, potion or operation that can take the pain away, when this is often not something that will make what is thought of as bad, good.......Like saying, wherever you go you take yourself with you.

This is why sex change operations don't actually work. Rates of mental health problems, depression and suicide are the same for pre-op and post-op transgender people. These people need intensive psychotherapy but instead they get hormones and surgery. You'd think that someone would need to spend a lot of time with a psychiatrist before they physically transition but that's not the case at all. Someone I know from another forum recently had the op and had a grand total of two visits to a psychiatrist first. This guy screams mental health problems but was deemed fit to consent to surgery and that was that. 

[The Masked Tulip]

10 minutes ago, winkie said:

The human mind is very complex.....Leaving gender aside, there are plenty of people who do not like living inside their own heads, like their own bodies for reasons others would not see as anything wrong.....So it is about loving who you are, and others accepting who others are......What people seem to think is that there is some magic pill, potion or operation that can take the pain away, when this is often not something that will make what is thought of as bad, good.......Like saying, wherever you go you take yourself with you.

Very much so. As a society we do not concentrate enough on this. I think so many, many problems that we have as a species are down to this.

[spyguy]

14 minutes ago, Bossybabe said:

IMO, the NHS should be for people who are actually ill. Ergo, such issues as transgender should be dealt with by the mental health services. If they want to change sex enough, let them pay for the true cost. I believe the same about infertility issues in this grossly overpopulated world. 

Theres lots of chatter on the news today about NHS in meltdown , Red cross workers etc etc.

News never srates the problem - 50%+ of the hospital capacity is being used as an old folks homes.

Hospitals are for acute treatment, not warehousing slightly ill oaps.

I wasshocked visiting a friend in summer. hed had an operation and wasstuck for a week. His post surgery ward filled up with oaps whod not had surgery. They were parked there.

[The Masked Tulip]

Just now, This time said:

This is why sex change operations don't actually work. Rates of mental health problems, depression and suicide are the same for pre-op and post-op transgender people. These people need intensive psychotherapy but instead they get hormones and surgery. You'd think that someone would need to spend a lot of time with a psychiatrist before they physically transition but that's not the case at all. Someone I know from another forum recently had the op and had a grand total of two visits to a psychiatrist first. This guy screams mental health problems but was deemed fit to consent to surgery and that was that. 

If you look on youtube there are US shrinks who have made videos that seem very pro-transgender focused - i.e. you need a medic on your side to get the insurance companies to fund the hormones/surgery/etc and some of the videos do come across, IMPO, as basically touting for business. There appears to be big money to be made catering to this sector.

[spyguy]

14 minutes ago, winkie said:

The human mind is very complex.....Leaving gender aside, there are plenty of people who do not like living inside their own heads, like their own bodies for reasons others would not see as anything wrong.....So it is about loving who you are, and others accepting who others are......What people seem to think is that there is some magic pill, potion or operation that can take the pain away, when this is often not something that will make what is thought of as bad, good.......Like saying, wherever you go you take yourself with you.

Not just yhe mind, the mental bit is interwoven with the physical body and hormonal endichrine complex.

You dont become a woman by cutting off yr coc.

Surgery cannot make me woman, as much as it could not make me a kangeroo.

[The Masked Tulip]

3 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Theres lots of chatter on the news today about NHS in meltdown , Red cross workers etc etc.

News never srates the problem - 50%+ of the hospital capacity is being used as an old folks homes.

Hospitals are for acute treatment, not warehousing slightly ill oaps.

I wasshocked visiting a friend in summer. hed had an operation and wasstuck for a week. His post surgery ward filled up with oaps whod not had surgery. They were parked there.

 

Hang on, you are going off at a tangent now. Is it transgender treatment on the NHS that you have a problem with or is it older people being given hospital care? You are broadening this out in to very wide-ranging areas.

[This time]

1 minute ago, The Masked Tulip said:

If you look on youtube there are US shrinks who have made videos that seem very pro-transgender focused - i.e. you need a medic on your side to get the insurance companies to fund the hormones/surgery/etc and some of the videos do come across, IMPO, as basically touting for business. There appears to be big money to be made catering to this sector.

Yep. Paediatric gender specialists in particular do a lot better financially than if they were just a regular paediatrician or paediatric endocrinologist. 

[spyguy]

3 minutes ago, The Masked Tulip said:

If you look on youtube there are US shrinks who have made videos that seem very pro-transgender focused - i.e. you need a medic on your side to get the insurance companies to fund the hormones/surgery/etc and some of the videos do come across, IMPO, as basically touting for business. There appears to be big money to be made catering to this sector.

Teres a few surgeons who offer complex back surgery - a case of bone to replace degerated spine.

Theres a lot spin. When you look at the research, at best, it might offera slight improvement. At worse, itll make it worse.

Theres some dubious medical people out there.

[spyguy]

5 minutes ago, The Masked Tulip said:

 

Hang on, you are going off at a tangent now. Is it transgender treatment on the NHS that you have a problem with or is it older people being given hospital care? You are broadening this out in to very wide-ranging areas.

It was a response to bossy, based on the perma news on radio.

Please ignore response!

[The Masked Tulip]

1 minute ago, spyguy said:

Teres a few surgeons who offer complex back surgery - a case of bone to replace degerated spine.

Theres a lot spin. When you look at the research, at best, it might offera slight improvement. At worse, itll make it worse.

Theres some dubious medical people out there.

 

Yes, this is very true in the medical sector both here in the UK and right around the world. I know some people who became doctors and immediately went to the US because they could make far more money out there - fools, they went before Labour give all UK doctors lottery winning numbers.

A friend of mine is in charge of a large number of consultants at a major UK hospital and spends much of the time involved in disputes about doctors claiming vast sums of money for days worked that they never worked or simply not having the qualifications that they stated they have. Look at those Hollywood actors who have one plastiic surgery after another until they look like freaks - you would think that there would be a point when a surgeon would say "Look, this is not what you need.".

[spyguy]

7 minutes ago, This time said:

Yep. Paediatric gender specialists in particular do a lot better financially than if they were just a regular paediatrician or paediatric endocrinologist. 

So is the current noise brought by the association of gender reslignment surgeons?

[SarahBell]

Where was that research about antidepressant use and transgender?

[winkie]

10 minutes ago, This time said:

This is why sex change operations don't actually work. Rates of mental health problems, depression and suicide are the same for pre-op and post-op transgender people. These people need intensive psychotherapy but instead they get hormones and surgery. You'd think that someone would need to spend a lot of time with a psychiatrist before they physically transition but that's not the case at all. Someone I know from another forum recently had the op and had a grand total of two visits to a psychiatrist first. This guy screams mental health problems but was deemed fit to consent to surgery and that was that. 

Sad to say the way of the world....where the money flows becomes priority, quick fixes that do not actually fix the person with the health problem.....quality ongoing mental health therapy is hard to find and time consuming and expensive the NHS have nowhere near enough capacity for the demand...... If an adult access to help is far worse... any drugs should work alongside therapy and reviewed regularly.....nothing is fixed overnight .

[This time]

17 minutes ago, spyguy said:

So is the current noise brought by the association of gender reslignment surgeons?

It's a mix of various things coming to a head. Doctors and pharmaceutical companies wanting to make money is just one facet. Big pharma needed another market for female hormones once HRT became unpopular in the early noughties. Then there was the slow creep of influence of the T in LGBT - many trans men are alpha men with high flying careers and with money comes influence. Many lesbian and LGBT organisations are now completely dominated by these men. The internet has also played a big part with the spread of transgenderism as a meme and the rise of the transgender cult. It has also served as a way to spread information on the negative impact of transgenderism, particularly on women and children. Trans men got too bold in their demands and women are fighting back which has made trans men and their SJW allies shout even louder. 

[The Masked Tulip]

2 minutes ago, This time said:

It's a mix of various things coming to a head. Doctors and pharmaceutical companies wanting to make money is just one facet. Big pharma needed another market for female hormones once HRT became unpopular in the early noughties. Then there was the slow creep of influence of the T in LGBT - many trans men are alpha men with high flying careers and with money comes influence. Many lesbian and LGBT organisations are now completely dominated by these men. The internet has also played a big part with the spread of transgenderism as a meme and the rise of the transgender cult. It has also served as a way to spread information on the negative impact of transgenderism, particularly on women and children. Trans men got too bold in their demands and women are fighting back which has made trans men and their SJW allies shout even louder. 

I doubt that there are many lesbian organisations dominated by trans MTF men. From what I have read the lesbian community has many people very vocal anti-MTF transgender. Similarly, the transgender community seems to be very political with different sub-groups hating other sub-groups.

There is a sub-group of MTF trans who then only have relationships with biologically born females - and other MTF transgenders feel very strongly that if you are not truly transgender if you do not then have sexual relationships with the opposite gender to your new gender.

Feck, it is complicated. I am off out for a bike ride and some eggs & chips in a cafe.

[spyguy]

3 minutes ago, The Masked Tulip said:

I doubt that there are many lesbian organisations dominated by trans MTF men. From what I have read the lesbian community has many people very vocal anti-MTF transgender. Similarly, the transgender community seems to be very political with different sub-groups hating other sub-groups.

There is a sub-group of MTF trans who then only have relationships with biologically born females - and other MTF transgenders feel very strongly that if you are not truly transgender if you do not then have sexual relationships with the opposite gender to your new gender.

Feck, it is complicated. I am off out for a bike ride and some eggs & chips in a cafe.

Your own eggs? Or leftover from the ovaries?